Binding and Loosing

[farouk]

@Episkopos
Bless you. Your posts are one of the reasons I signed up here. Hope all is well in your world. Good to see you.

The Lord has given others as guides; in the end we search the Scriptures for ourselves for our consciences to be stirred.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

It's a lot more than that. It is spiritual warfare in an ongoing way. A constant setting of things in order...by the Spirit.

no...the passage is clearly about church discipline

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

You would have people deciding things for God. Again, you want to lean on the understanding of men. But you have chosen a wrong argument...again. God puts people in authority who only look to Him. They are place markers for HIS authority.

A man of God comes in the name of the Lord. Not in his own name by delegation. So the authority is never ours...but a responsibility for preserving the authority that comes only from God.

Your reasoning is what has caused the failure in the church to maintain an intimate relationship with God...in exchange for a man-made religious system that is called "Christendom." This is the very opposite of the Ekklesia of God. Jesus builds His own church. Just as men build up theirs.

But you are not seeing that all the works of men come under the diabolos....the exousia of the principalities in this world. It is a lie that God delegates His authority to others. God is alive and present...there is no place where God is absent and needs a representative away from His very presence. God is either with us in HIS authority...or we are following another authority...the exousia of the devil who wants man to be lifted up as a god....and all this to rebel against the true exousia which is by the Holy Spirit in them who are crucified to their own desire for power, authority and recognition. No longer I, but Christ. Speak only as led by the Spirit...as the oracle of God. All else is of the devil....and a lie.

We are called to be witnesses of His presence....and an oracle that speaks the words from God. NEVER our own words.

None of this is biblical at all. you are making it up as you go contrary to what the scripture really teaches

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

I take the binding and losing scripture as part of our authority in The Spirit.
All through our life when we have prayed for people who need help or freedom in their lives to be of more value to the Lord..
We have laid hands on people and bound the spirits of misery or bondage around them or over them which are ruining their daily walk or family ...and then loosed every blessing of the Father by the power of the blood of The Lamb..and loosed them into all the freedoms of God in the Spirit that Jesus attained for them.
I still do that now work-wise...If it is a clinic day I know there will be grumpy patients or those with bed attitudes..which changes the atmosphere...so beforehand I bind all the nasty spirits that would try to ruin everyones day...and I loose the joy and love of God upon the place and everyone who walks through the door.
It works for me, always has these many years... All it really is , is agreeing with heaven. :)

Grace...these ideas are not scriptural.You do not bind spirits of misery...this is not found in scripture.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

ha, ok. If you say so

What are you laughing about? The passage is about church discipline, nothing else.

 

[Episkopos]

None of this is biblical at all. you are making it up as you go contrary to what the scripture really teaches

Everyone has a right to their opinion. But that's all you are providing here. You are exposing yourself to have a very narrow view of things...with nothing to back it up.

 

[brakelite]

KJV Luke 22
Strife About Greatness
24 And there was also a strife among them, which of them should be accounted the greatest.
25 And he said unto them, The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and they that exercise authority upon them are called benefactors.
26 But ye shall not be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve.

 

[Helen]

None of this is biblical at all. you are making it up as you go contrary to what the scripture really teaches

So, your another one of “those”....putting others ‘in the place’ and , only thou knowest all things..
Get a life and get over yourself .

 

[bbyrd009]

What are you laughing about? The passage is about church discipline, nothing else.

Hey, as long as you are sure, absolutely certain, then I am convinced too.

:)

 

[bbyrd009]

See what I did there? Poorly? The Bible does this all over the place fwiw, but much more artfully. See bc I am convinced alright, only of something else, but I'm not here trying to trumpet that part, but point out how an inference or a perspective can be hidden in plain sight.

Maybe that is strictly about "church" admin or whatever, and maybe it's not, I dunno.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

So, your another one of “those”....putting others ‘in the place’ and , only thou knowest all things..
Get a life and get over yourself .

Hello Grace.
I have a life thank you. I know what you and others have posted here is error.
I am another of those who read what the bible actually says. Mt 18 is about church discipline.
You know how I "know" that...it is because that is what it says. notice verse 17.
So you can curb your hostile tone and read and learn what is written, instead of following the false teachers who are claiming they are binding and loosing everything under the Sun
15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.

20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Hey, as long as you are sure, absolutely certain, then I am convinced too.

:)

see the post#31.....
17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Everyone has a right to their opinion. But that's all you are providing here. You are exposing yourself to have a very narrow view of things...with nothing to back it up.

Friend, I back it up with the direct statement from the text;
17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
that is what the passage teaches. the passage is not a permission to go out all over the place making as if you have Divine authority.

For you and "by grace'...let me ask you a question. When these false teachers are claiming they are binding everything, for example, they say Satan I am binding you, in Jesus name...HOW DOES SATAN KEEP GETTING LOOSE?
When Jesus casts him into outer darkness, he is not getting out.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

See what I did there? Poorly? The Bible does this all over the place fwiw, but much more artfully. See bc I am convinced alright, only of something else, but I'm not here trying to trumpet that part, but point out how an inference or a perspective can be hidden in plain sight.

Maybe that is strictly about "church" admin or whatever, and maybe it's not, I dunno.

17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

 

[Episkopos]

Friend, I back it up with the direct statement from the text;
17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
that is what the passage teaches. the passage is not a permission to go out all over the place making as if you have Divine authority.

For you and "by grace'...let me ask you a question. When these false teachers are claiming they are binding everything, for example, they say Satan I am binding you, in Jesus name...HOW DOES SATAN KEEP GETTING LOOSE?
When Jesus casts him into outer darkness, he is not getting out.

You are thinking of binding or loosing being about people rather than things of the Spirit. Who binds people? You are seeing this from a physical standpoint...so then a person would have to be bound with actual ropes or chains for your physical idea to work..

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

You are thinking of binding or loosing being about people rather than things of the Spirit. Who binds people? You are seeing this from a physical standpoint...so then a person would have to be bound with actual ropes or chains for your physical idea to work..

No...the text actually speaks of having already been bound in heaven...
It is quite spiritual.

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

See what I did there? Poorly? The Bible does this all over the place fwiw, but much more artfully. See bc I am convinced alright, only of something else, but I'm not here trying to trumpet that part, but point out how an inference or a perspective can be hidden in plain sight.

Maybe that is strictly about "church" admin or whatever, and maybe it's not, I dunno.

Just read it. One person goes to the person, then two.if the person does not repent, then it goes before the whole church, if no repentance, excommunication..
Church discipline is a look ark of a true Church.

 

[bbyrd009]

Just read it. One person goes to the person, then two.if the person does not repent, then it goes before the whole church, if no repentance, excommunication..
Church discipline is a look ark of a true Church.

Well that is certainly logical, ok, I'm not disagreeing with that. Now wadr I can tell you've never actually tried that route, bc there is a hidden lesson in there took me like three times to get, so iOW three really big explosions, tore up the um "whole church" as you call it, and guess who got...well, that's enough for now I guess lol, just go try it and see who learns what! It's just another thing that does not play out like we imagine in our heads, at least in my experience.

There is another way to play that game all by yourself, with you as the whole church, fwiw

 

[Episkopos]

I think often people confuse authority with autonomy. Autonomy actually means "a law unto oneself" (auto and nomos). ...or a lack of coming under authority.

Who really wants to unselfishly see the restoration of God's dominion? Do we not prefer freedom over submission to authority?

Are we convinced of God's absolute excellence and Lordship over all things...including ourselves and everything we think and do?

 

[Episkopos]

Just read it. One person goes to the person, then two.if the person does not repent, then it goes before the whole church, if no repentance, excommunication..
Church discipline is a look ark of a true Church.

You are confusing a spiritual liberation or binding with a church action which is disciplinary on the physical level. The church decides to exclude a person or receive a person into fellowship. A physical person. This is about fellowship. But binding and loosing are as I described in the OP. Have you read it? (the first 3 pages). Try commenting on that rather than confusing the issue here. Respond to the OP. Then, your confusion may well be aided.