Benny Hinn Renounces Prosperity Gospel !!!! I Hope TBN follows SUIT!!

[Nancy]

No I have never heard of Hinn involved in anything like that. I agree with you that change is possible for every person. I grasp what you're saying about being careful before shooting down any Christian ministry - I think that's a valid point.

I recall that a pastor in CA said that a local satanic group put a goat's head across from his church one time - so effective ministries do come under attack. Chip Ingram I think his name is.

We were just talking in bible study about the crowns and rewards in heaven - so I think you have a point about varying levels of dedication to God.

When I was younger I automatically felt a kinship with other Christians. Then a corrupt "Christian" family at a church we attended badly cheated a family member in a very egregious way. My husband was badly blindsided as he'd grown close to the family and the one older man taught bible study...but they didn't practice what they preached. Another church we attended the leadership hurt a family member and I was told that "God" put them in their positions and they were to be obeyed. Yuck. Another "Christian" was jealous and did something very very evil to my family. We hired a window company and the "Christian" manager tried to cheat us. He ordered the wrong sized windows and told me "Just let my guys install it and we'll reorder the right size." By that time I knew not to trust another "Christian" - and I knew from the tone in his voice and my instincts that he was feeding me a line. I told him no they were not installing the wrong sized window. I learned that Christians lie as much as unbelievers and hypocrisy abounds. It's when the following verse made sense:

Matthew 7:14

“Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.”

So I am jaded. I am much more cautious when anyone claims to be a Christian or is in a leadership position. I still am loving yet I don't trust until someone earns it and/ or I get to know them well. Satan can move a Christian to act just as much as he can get an unbeliever to act. We read about David who killed Uriah - and I've found how Satan moved in David's heart to sin is just as true today.

Still I admire your zeal and any work you're doing. With the number of Christians who did wrong I met an equal or larger number that were doing right. I'm just more careful now than I used to be. I avoid pentecostal churches with a lot of exuberance and I'm more cautious with independent churches with no overseer. I prefer quieter ministries that are more true and less emotion and I'm careful when any family or small group has a stranglehold on a church. I think Satan does assign his evil minions to churches and we don't even know how much damage they do. I think you have the right idea of prayer.

I LOVE Chip Ingram...I listen to his radio programs allot...BTW-good post!

 

[Soverign Grace]

I LOVE Chip Ingram...I listen to his radio programs allot...BTW-good post!

I bought one of his books and gave it to someone as a Christmas gift. He must have been doing something right to be attacked - as Josho pointed out.

 

[Nancy]

I bought one of his books and gave it to someone as a Christmas gift. He must have been doing something right to be attacked - as Josho pointed out.

I would say so. Our own Church was fire bombed about a year ago...our main campus, thank God nobody was hurt! So sad...Do they think they can stop the truth by persecuting Christians like that?? Ha!

 

[Hope in God]

No I have never heard of Hinn involved in anything like that. I agree with you that change is possible for every person. I grasp what you're saying about being careful before shooting down any Christian ministry - I think that's a valid point.

I recall that a pastor in CA said that a local satanic group put a goat's head across from his church one time - so effective ministries do come under attack. Chip Ingram I think his name is.

We were just talking in bible study about the crowns and rewards in heaven - so I think you have a point about varying levels of dedication to God.

When I was younger I automatically felt a kinship with other Christians. Then a corrupt "Christian" family at a church we attended badly cheated a family member in a very egregious way. My husband was badly blindsided as he'd grown close to the family and the one older man taught bible study...but they didn't practice what they preached. Another church we attended the leadership hurt a family member and I was told that "God" put them in their positions and they were to be obeyed. Yuck. Another "Christian" was jealous and did something very very evil to my family. We hired a window company and the "Christian" manager tried to cheat us. He ordered the wrong sized windows and told me "Just let my guys install it and we'll reorder the right size." By that time I knew not to trust another "Christian" - and I knew from the tone in his voice and my instincts that he was feeding me a line. I told him no they were not installing the wrong sized window. I learned that Christians lie as much as unbelievers and hypocrisy abounds. It's when the following verse made sense:

Matthew 7:14

“Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.”

So I am jaded. I am much more cautious when anyone claims to be a Christian or is in a leadership position. I still am loving yet I don't trust until someone earns it and/ or I get to know them well. Satan can move a Christian to act just as much as he can get an unbeliever to act. We read about David who killed Uriah - and I've found how Satan moved in David's heart to sin is just as true today.

Still I admire your zeal and any work you're doing. With the number of Christians who did wrong I met an equal or larger number that were doing right. I'm just more careful now than I used to be. I avoid pentecostal churches with a lot of exuberance and I'm more cautious with independent churches with no overseer. I prefer quieter ministries that are more true and less emotion and I'm careful when any family or small group has a stranglehold on a church. I think Satan does assign his evil minions to churches and we don't even know how much damage they do. I think you have the right idea of prayer.

_____________________________
You seem to speak my language. Saved in '72, I have witnessed those is leadership roles be led more by the flesh than by the Spirit of God. The Bible tells us to know no man after the flesh, which, as some have taught, means we are not to notice the sin in preachers or to point it out. Others, deeply set in the ways of the wayward side of Charismatic indoctrination believe we are not to judge, or, as they say, "touch God's anointed". What baloney all that is when Scripture teaches us that we are, without a doubt, to grow into discernment, to be able to tell sheep from wolves, and to make it known when we are certain of the truth.

Paul told the Corinthian church, a group of believers who thought they were doing God's will be not confronting a brother who was sleeping with his step mother by refusing to rebuke him. They thought their tolerance was proof of their love. After Paul was informed of their complete lack of discernment, he wrote to tell them he was coming to address that situation. He wrote, "Do you want me to come with a rod or in love? I'm coming with a rod! Get that man out of your fellowship NOW!" he insisted.

But then, after the man repented, they continued to not permit him reentry into their gatherings, to which Paul had to respond with a teaching on how to judge whether a man has truly repented or not (2 Cor. 7). This is one of the reasons why so much of what goes on in today's megachurch world is permitted to occur without correction, chastisement or rebuke. First of all, those on the stage have not, in any way, allowed anyone to interfere with them, for they themselves are accountable to no one. They refuse to be forced to be accountable to truly, well studied, well developed Christian overseers and are wolves who exist for one reason alone, financial wealth.

The only real person within the body of Christ whom I saw as being fully accountable, very contrite before the Lord, and honestly able to hear the leading of the Holy Spirit as the Lord led her in her ministry was Kathryn Kuhlman. I used to usher for her and so I know well the visitations and presence of Jesus Christ in her meetings. At no place, and through no person, have I witnessed that same anointing throughout my walk. She was one of the last truly sensitive and anointed instruments of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Soverign Grace]

I would say so. Our own Church was fire bombed about a year ago...our main campus, thank God nobody was hurt! So sad...Do they think they can stop the truth by persecuting Christians like that?? Ha!

OMG that's crazy. I never heard of anything like that in our area or in any churches we've gone to. We've had our church broken into and anything of value stolen but that's it.

 

[Soverign Grace]

_____________________________
You seem to speak my language. Saved in '72, I have witnessed those is leadership roles be led more by the flesh than by the Spirit of God. The Bible tells us to know no man after the flesh, which, as some have taught, means we are not to notice the sin in preachers or to point it out. Others, deeply set in the ways of the wayward side of Charismatic indoctrination believe we are not to judge, or, as they say, "touch God's anointed". What baloney all that is when Scripture teaches us that we are, without a doubt, to grow into discernment, to be able to tell sheep from wolves, and to make it known when we are certain of the truth.

Paul told the Corinthian church, a group of believers who thought they were doing God's will be not confronting a brother who was sleeping with his step mother by refusing to rebuke him. They thought their tolerance was proof of their love. After Paul was informed of their complete lack of discernment, he wrote to tell them he was coming to address that situation. He wrote, "Do you want me to come with a rod or in love? I'm coming with a rod! Get that man out of your fellowship NOW!" he insisted.

But then, after the man repented, they continued to not permit him reentry into their gatherings, to which Paul had to respond with a teaching on how to judge whether a man has truly repented or not (2 Cor. 7). This is one of the reasons why so much of what goes on in today's megachurch world is permitted to occur without correction, chastisement or rebuke. First of all, those on the stage have not, in any way, allowed anyone to interfere with them, for they themselves are accountable to no one. They refuse to be forced to be accountable to truly, well studied, well developed Christian overseers and are wolves who exist for one reason alone, financial wealth.

The only real person within the body of Christ whom I saw as being fully accountable, very contrite before the Lord, and honestly able to hear the leading of the Holy Spirit as the Lord led her in her ministry was Kathryn Kuhlman. I used to usher for her and so I know well the visitations and presence of Jesus Christ in her meetings. At no place, and through no person, have I witnessed that same anointing throughout my walk. She was one of the last truly sensitive and anointed instruments of the Holy Spirit.

It hurts when leadership is led by the flesh - usually pride. I was younger in the Lord and what a rude awakening. Two of my family members were hurt in church and for the most part won't attend today. I wish that people knew how much harm they do "in the Name of the Lord."

You're right about discernment - which is why I'm so careful now. There are wolves in the church. The one corrupt family who owned a church hurt so many people. I later heard they started their own church after destroying one they attended. The pastor called us over to his house and shared all the things the family had done - he left the church and so did we. Now they have a new hireling - the old saying "every man has a price" is true in Christian circles too. The family lost their business after cheating so many people - including us. But they're still running a church and left a lot of victims in their wake. I don't know how they live with themselves and I don't know how that hireling pastor can preach the bible with a straight face.

The other church, the leadership broke up but they too did harm. I just thank God that He gave me uneasy feelings in that church. It was funny - before I knew about the leadership, something felt 'off' to me. I couldn't put my finger on it - I just didn't feel right. I later learned how prideful and puffed up the leadership was. I liked the people and how the church was organized - we really felt supported. But their "obedience to leadership" could better be classified as "control." I was on the fence and emailed 11 pastors and explained what happened and I thank God for those pastors who answered me. One in particular told me that he would not want to be in a church like that - so he helped us make the decision to leave. What was really shocking was how the pastor turned the people in our group against us because I disagreed with the leadership. They didn't show the love of Christ. You know what's funny? I later became unlikely friends with a gay liberal - and he showed more love than those "Christian" leaders did. I've talked to him about God and although not receptive now I believe God is calling him. But when I look at how they've each treated others it's sad that those representing Christ behaved the worst.

Exactly the reasons you stated about those who don't want to have any overseers is why I'm cautious of 'independent' churches now. I'm sure that many of them are good but I had two bad experiences in them. The corrupt family that owned the church was all about money. They lost their business and I suspect that they use "donations" as their income now. They're true predators.