BAPTISM SAVES, FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS"

[BreadOfLife]

No, you are twisting what I said. God created everything - does that make Him the Author of evil? But why are you surprised?

I form the light and create darkness,
I make peace and create calamity;
I, the Lord, do all these things.’ Isaiah 45:7

...Have you no knowledge of blind leaders of the blind? Are you such a fool to think there have been no charlatans in the church?

You continue to dodge and duck - but you refuse to answer the question.
You believe the doctrine of the Real Presence to be IDOLATRY.

You know that teachers are held to a higher standard and cannot claim "ignorance" because Scripture is CLEAR about this.
Yet - you refuse to take a stand on the Early Church Fathers - who UNANIMOUSLY taught and practiced WORSHIP of the Eucharist as the Body and Blood of Christ.

WHY is that, Scott??
You're so free with your condemnations of Catholic practices yet you CAN'T take a stand against the ECFs who claim they passed this teaching down from the Apostles.

Were they wrong to do this - or were they correct in their teaching??
And IF they were wrong - doesn't Scripture say that false teachers are held to a more rigid standard than the people they lead into false beliefs??

James 3:1
Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who TEACH will be judged more strictly.

Matt. 15:14
Leave them; they are blind guides. If the blind lead the blind, BOTH will fall into a pit."

Luke 12:48
From everyone to whom much has been given, MUCH will be required.

Heb 13:17
Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account.

Mark 9:42
"If anyone causes one of these little ones--those who believe in me--to stumble, it would be better for them if a large millstone were hung around their neck and they were thrown into the sea.

 

[mjrhealth]

Mark 9:42
"If anyone causes one of these little ones--those who believe in me--to stumble, it would be better for them if a large millstone were hung around their neck and they were thrown into the sea.

Some should take note of that what they write.

God bless

 

[ScottA]

You continue to dodge and duck - but you refuse to answer the question.
You believe the doctrine of the Real Presence to be IDOLATRY.

You know that teachers are held to a higher standard and cannot claim "ignorance" because Scripture is CLEAR about this.
Yet - you refuse to take a stand on the Early Church Fathers - who UNANIMOUSLY taught and practiced WORSHIP of the Eucharist as the Body and Blood of Christ.

WHY is that, Scott??
You're so free with your condemnations of Catholic practices yet you CAN'T take a stand against the ECFs who claim they passed this teaching down from the Apostles.

Were they wrong to do this - or were they correct in their teaching??
And IF they were wrong - doesn't Scripture say that false teachers are held to a more rigid standard than the people they lead into false beliefs??

James 3:1
Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who TEACH will be judged more strictly.

Matt. 15:14
Leave them; they are blind guides. If the blind lead the blind, BOTH will fall into a pit."

Luke 12:48
From everyone to whom much has been given, MUCH will be required.

Heb 13:17
Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account.

Mark 9:42
"If anyone causes one of these little ones--those who believe in me--to stumble, it would be better for them if a large millstone were hung around their neck and they were thrown into the sea.

I have made myself clear several times. Do you want me to tell you that you yourself have followed the blind leaders? Well, you have, and they are held accountable. But you have not heard me.

"Indeed there is no other Rock;
I know not one."

 

[epostle]

water never saved any one without the shedding of Blood there is no remission of sins. in exodus when i see the Blood on the door post i will pass over you. no place has water saved baptism follows salvation :)

That has nothing to do with baptism.

Something to do with this

Mar 7:6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
Mar 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Mar 7:8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

nothing to do with anti any religion, just religion that stands in opposition to God which makes them all": anti Christ". and I do mean all religion.

Col 2:22 Which all are to perish with the using, after the commandments and doctrines of men?
Col 2:23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

Ps did I mention your church has no authority of any one, cept those who "choose" to give it authority over them. Teh only Authority e are supposed to have over us is Christ.

Something to do with this

Mar 7:6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.
Mar 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
Mar 7:8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.

nothing to do with anti any religion, just religion that stands in opposition to God which makes them all": anti Christ". and I do mean all religion.

Col 2:22 Which all are to perish with the using, after the commandments and doctrines of men?
Col 2:23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.

Ps did I mention your church has no authority of any one, cept those who "choose" to give it authority over them. Teh only Authority e are supposed to have over us is Christ.

Oh, I get it. Jesus has no power or authority to establish a hierarchical, supernatural earthly church. That's not Christianity.

 

[epostle]

I have made myself clear several times. Do you want me to tell you that you yourself have followed the blind leaders? Well, you have, and they are held accountable. But you have not heard me.

"Indeed there is no other Rock;
I know not one."

No, you have not made yourself clear at all. You never name who these "blind leaders" are, and you never say what these "blind leaders" formally taught. What you have formed here is a false doctrine of your own. There is not one verse in the Bible that attacks the Church the way you do. You do it because it is a man made tradition.
Let me be clear: if you hate the Catholic Church, you hate Jesus. Period. What gets you off the hook is invincible ignorance.

So you re-invent the wheel with your silly "one meaning only for one word" argument, that has been refuted a million times.

 

[epostle]

No, you are twisting what I said. God created everything - does that make Him the Author of evil? But why are you surprised?

I form the light and create darkness,
I make peace and create calamity;
I, the Lord, do all these things.’ Isaiah 45:7

...Have you no knowledge of blind leaders of the blind? Are you such a fool to think there have been no charlatans in the church?

So what? If they prevailed, then you accuse Jesus of lying when He said the gates of Hades will not prevail. Satan attacking the Church, (from within and from without) and Satan prevailing over the Church are all one and same to you. It's the worst form of blindness.

Jesus builds the Church, He doesn't build junk.

John 11:51-52 – you argue that sinners cannot have the power to teach infallibly. But in this verse, God allows Caiaphas to prophesy infallibly, even though he was evil and plotted Jesus’ death. God allows sinners to teach infallibly, just as He allows sinners to become saints. As a loving Father, He exalts His children, and is bound by His own justice to give His children a mechanism to know truth from error.

 

[ScottA]

No, you have not made yourself clear at all. You never name who these "blind leaders" are, and you never say what these "blind leaders" formally taught. What you have formed here is a false doctrine of your own. There is not one verse in the Bible that attacks the Church the way you do. You do it because it is a man made tradition.
Let me be clear: if you hate the Catholic Church, you hate Jesus. Period. What gets you off the hook is invincible ignorance.

So you re-invent the wheel with your silly "one meaning only for one word" argument, that has been refuted a million times.

You came in on this without knowing even what the discussion is about, you called me a bunch of names and prejudice remarks, and now you make a bunch of judgments, still not even knowing what the discussion is about.

You are not helping your buddy or your denomination. You are just showing your colors. Thanks for making this easy.

 

[ScottA]

So what? If they prevailed, then you accuse Jesus of lying when He said the gates of Hades will not prevail. Satan attacking the Church, and Satan prevailing over the Church are all one and same to you. It's the worst kind of blindness.

You misunderstand.

Jesus was not talking about a worldly victory, but things on earth as they are in heaven. Do you know the difference? Apparently not. Come back when you know what you are talking about.

 

[epostle]

You misunderstand.

Jesus was not talking about a worldly victory, but things on earth as they are in heaven. Do you know the difference? Apparently not. Come back when you know what you are talking about.

Your forefathers severed the umbilical cord between heaven and earth, you come up with this??? The visible acts of binding and loosing done by an invisible church? How stupid is that???

A "worldly victory" is another false straw man of your invention.

Jer. 33:17 – Jeremiah prophesies that David shall never lack a man to sit on the throne of the earthly House of Israel. Either this is a false prophecy, or David has a successor of representatives throughout history.

Dan. 2:44 – Daniel prophesies an earthly kingdom that will never be destroyed. Either this is a false prophecy, or the earthly kingdom requires succession.

According to your anti-authority/anti-institutionalism/anti/Catholic and anti-Jesus mentality, Jeremiah and Daniel are false prophets.

Come back when you stop your straw man insults THAT YOU REFUSE TO EXPLAIN.

 

[mjrhealth]

That has nothing to do with baptism.


Oh, I get it. Jesus has no power or authority to establish a hierarchical, supernatural earthly church. That's not Christianity.

No thats not religion.... His church is Spiritual yours in carnal its in the news everyday because of Her sin,

Whats it say of our Lords church, Spotless without blemish" yours is stained with the blood of the innocent as is all mens religions.

 

[epostle]

No thats not religion.... His church is Spiritual yours in carnal its in the news everyday because of Her sin,

Whats it say of our Lords church, Spotless without blemish" yours is stained with the blood of the innocent as is all mens religions.

If His church is all spiritual then so is the Incarnation. That's Gnosticism The Bible teaches that HIS CHURCH is an extension of the Incarnation. You deny the Bible.

You, like Scott, assert stupid ignorant zingers. No names, no documentation, no historical context, just the standard Satanic generalizations of "yours is stained with blood".
The first 40 popes were killed, and your sick, warped church history blames it on Catholics. Your false histories are no different than the sick, warped Seventh Day Adventists or the erroneous Jehovah's Witnesses. You preach EXACTLY THE SAME FALSEHOODS. The "histories" of Baptist Secessionism or Landmark Baptist is so ridiculous it's an embarrassment to Baptists.

If you are going to assert stupid ignorant flaming zingers, show a little integrity and back it up with RECENT scholarly documentation. Even RECENT Protestant historians don't accept your crap. Until then, stop your evil Satanic lies.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Some should take note of that what they write.

God bless

Couldn't have said it better myself . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

I have made myself clear several times. Do you want me to tell you that you yourself have followed the blind leaders? Well, you have, and they are held accountable. But you have not heard me.

"Indeed there is no other Rock;
I know not one."

No, Scott - you've made nothing "clear".

On the contrary - you've danced around the issue for several posts now because you are backed into a corner from which it is difficult for ANY Protestant to get out.

You have made it clear that the doctrine of the Real Presence in the Eucharist is a false doctrine which breeds idolatry. I have asked you point-blank about whether or not the Early Church Fathers who UNANIMOUSLY believed in and taught millions about the Real Presence would be held accountable for their "false" teaching. YOU simply stated that they might not because they "knew not" what they were teaching - which is a crock.
ALL of the ECFs were Church leaders - Popes, Bishops, Priests, etc.

I presented SEVERAL verses of Scripture that show Teachers will be held to a more stringent judgment that those whom they lead astray (James 3:1, Matt. 15:14, Luke 12:48, Heb 13:17, Mark 9:42) - and all YOU can do is point your finger back at ME.
I didn't ask you about ME - I asked you about THEM.

YOU need to decide whether or not the ECFs perverted the Gospel and were teaching "doctrines of devils" (1 Tim. 4:1) with their unanimous teachings on the Real Presence.

So, I ask you again - DID they pervert the Gospel and teach "doctrines of devils" with their unanimous teachings on the Eucharist - or were they RIGHT??

 

[ScottA]

Your forefathers severed the umbilical cord between heaven and earth, you come up with this??? The visible acts of binding and loosing done by an invisible church? How stupid is that???

A "worldly victory" is another false straw man of your invention.

Jer. 33:17 – Jeremiah prophesies that David shall never lack a man to sit on the throne of the earthly House of Israel. Either this is a false prophecy, or David has a successor of representatives throughout history.

Dan. 2:44 – Daniel prophesies an earthly kingdom that will never be destroyed. Either this is a false prophecy, or the earthly kingdom requires succession.

According to your anti-authority/anti-institutionalism/anti/Catholic and anti-Jesus mentality, Jeremiah and Daniel are false prophets.

Come back when you stop your straw man insults THAT YOU REFUSE TO EXPLAIN.

That's the problem with you - you don't understand that those prophecies were not about "earthly kingdoms."

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Here, I'm going to solve this entire episode of people talking past each other. Does anyone here disagree with any of the following statements--
- It's God who saves a people.
- A person cannot remotely be saved without God.
- A person must have faith in God in order to be saved.
- "Faith" is an action word.
- God did not save a person for them to be a couch potato and continue to live their sinful lives.
- Rather, God calls for that person to be reborn in Him and live His ways
- Such living His ways isn't what's saving the person, rather it's that person following the Savior's ways.

There, foundational things everyone agrees on. Let us actually talk *to* each other in common words, rather than talking past each other like Tower of Babel fools.

 

[mjrhealth]

If His church is all spiritual then so is the Incarnation. That's Gnosticism The Bible teaches that HIS CHURCH is an extension of the Incarnation. You deny the Bible.

You, like Scott, assert stupid ignorant zingers. No names, no documentation, no historical context, just the standard Satanic generalizations of "yours is stained with blood".
The first 40 popes were killed, and your sick, warped church history blames it on Catholics. Your false histories are no different than the sick, warped Seventh Day Adventists or the erroneous Jehovah's Witnesses. You preach EXACTLY THE SAME FALSEHOODS. The "histories" of Baptist Secessionism or Landmark Baptist is so ridiculous it's an embarrassment to Baptists.

If you are going to assert stupid ignorant flaming zingers, show a little integrity and back it up with RECENT scholarly documentation. Even RECENT Protestant historians don't accept your crap. Until then, stop your evil Satanic lies.

See thats how one know the truth, by the offence that comes when it is spoken. There is no zingers, the truth is there unless you are afraid to seek it. He came to set men free, to release the captives from prison, but far to many prefer prison its comfortable there.

 

[mjrhealth]

Couldn't have said it better myself . . .

glad you do read your own writings, that way Jesus wont have to remind you of what you wrote.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Here, I'm going to solve this entire episode of people talking past each other. Does anyone here disagree with any of the following statements--
- It's God who saves a people.
- A person cannot remotely be saved without God.
- A person must have faith in God in order to be saved.
- "Faith" is an action word.
- God did not save a person for them to be a couch potato and continue to live their sinful lives.
- Rather, God calls for that person to be reborn in Him and live His ways
- Such living His ways isn't what's saving the person, rather it's that person following the Savior's ways.

There, foundational things everyone agrees on. Let us actually talk *to* each other in common words, rather than talking past each other like Tower of Babel fools.

You are correct about God being the one who saves - and without Him we cannot be saved.
The problem with what you wrote is in RED.

First of all - Scripture teaches that although a person may receive the initial faith to believe - they MAY end up as a "couch potato" and fall back into a sinful life.

Secondly - unless we cooperate with God's grace (Matt 7:21, Mark 16:16, 1 Cor. 13:13) - we cannot hope to be saved. Faith IS an "action" word:
Faith = Belief + Works (obedience) - and we CANNOT be saved without faith.

 

[BreadOfLife]

glad you do read your own writings, that way Jesus wont have to remind you of what you wrote.

I don't just "read" my writings - I get them from the Body of Christ and the Word of God.
It's a shame YOU don't read them . . .

 

[mjrhealth]

I don't just "read" my writings - I get them from the Body of Christ and the Word of God.
It's a shame YOU don't read them . .

Actually you get them from the catholich church of which you are a member. Big difference.