Baptism is it required?

[winsome]

(thesuperjag;54015)
It's not talking about Water Baptism. Sure He did it at Matthew 3:13-17. But it is symbolic to what Christ said at John 3:5-7.I mean the thief at the cross who repented and believe that Christ is the Son of God. Yet Christ said this to him after he said...Luke 23:42 - And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom....Luke 21:43 - And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise....We only need the baptism of the Holy Ghost...the regeneration of the heart. If we also needed Water Baptism as well...then this scripture is wrong...Ephesians 4:5 - One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
There are two points about the thief at the cross.1. God can save anyone he wants to by any means he wants to. He is sovereign. So the thief being promised salvation does not negate the necessity of baptism.2. Baptism (with water) did not become mandatory until after the resurrection "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptising them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit” (Mt 28:19) “The one who believes and is baptised will be saved; but the one who does not believe will be condemned” (Mk16:16)Both statements are after the resurrection. So again the thief on the cross is irrelevant to this.

 

[winsome]

(Alpha and Omega;54012)
P.S. I was baptized into the Catholic church when I was very young but I suspect that does not count.
It counts

 

[Jordan]

(kriss;54127)
What part of this do some of you scriptures lawyers not get????Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, Seems pretty straight forward to me
Yea, I agree, reminds me of Matthew 13:15, John 12:40 referring to Isaiah 6:9-10.Clear as water.

 

[Christina]

Quote)Originally Posted by Alpha and Omega P.S. I was baptized into the Catholic church when I was very young but I suspect that does not count. (quote){quote)Winsome: It counts(quote)Double what winsome says it absouluty counts being Baptisted is accepting Christ as your savior repenting of your sin. Then the Holy spirit comes upon you and you become a Christ man a new person in Jesus Christ. You have very good insight and wisdom Alpha the spirit does certainly dwell in you You are baptised in his name. Baptism is between you your heart and God it does not have to be a cermony or done by another person or in a building You can become baptised in a battel field all by yourself.

 

[winsome]

John 3:3-53. Jesus answered him, “Very truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God without being born from above.”4. Nicodemus said to him, “How can anyone be born after having grown old? Can one enter a second time into the mother’s womb and be born?”5. Jesus answered, “Very truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit. This text is set between John the Baptist baptising with water, and Jesus and his disciples baptising with water. Jesus clearly says you must be born of water and Spirit. I have consulted many translations and all say water and Spirit. And we can see this in the scriptureshilip baptises a eunuch in Acts 8:36-38 “As they were going along the road, they came to some water; and the eunuch said, ‘Look, here is water! What is to prevent me from being baptised?’ He commanded the chariot to stop, and both of them, Philip and the eunuch, went down into the water, and Philip baptised him.” Paul experienced baptism with water. Paul is baptised in Acts 9:18 after receiving back his sight. But note that when he recalled this in Acts 22, Paul says that Ananias said to him “And now why do you delay? Get up, be baptised, and have your sins washed away, calling on his name.’” (Acts 22:16). This clearly a reference to baptism with water.Moreover consider the following: “Do you not know that all of us who have been baptised into Christ Jesus were baptised into his death? Therefore we have been buried with him by baptism into death, so that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.” (Rom 6:3-4). Paul here is referring to the practice of baptism by descending into a pool of water.Also Paul says “But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.” (1Cor 6:11)All indicate that baptism with water was practiced.We can also see this in other documents of the early Church For example:"Regarding baptism, baptise thus. After giving the forgoing instructions, "Baptise in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit in running water. But if you have no running water, baptise in any other..." Didache – (1st century AD)“’I have heard sir, said I [to the Shepherd], ‘from some teacher, that there is no other repentance except that which took place when we went down into the water and obtained the remission of our former sins.’ He said to me. ‘You have heard rightly, for so it is.’” The Shepherd 4:3:1 (AD 80)"As many as are persuaded and believe that what we [Christians] teach and say is true, and undertake to be able to live accordingly, and instructed to pray and to entreat God with fasting, for the remission of their sins that are past, we pray and fast with them. Then they are brought by us where there is water and are regenerated in the same manner in which we were ourselves regenerated. For, in the name of God, the Father . . . and of our Saviour Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit [Matt. 28:19], they then receive the washing with water. For Christ also said, ‘Unless you are born again, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven’” [John 3:3]" Justin Martyr First Apology 61 (A.D. 151).

 

[Aquila]

I believe that baptism is a command of Scripture. Failure to baptize, as a church, is a failure to obey the Lord’s commission… or refusal to be baptized as a believer is disobedience. I don’t believe that water baptism saves a person…but disobedience can cost one their soul. God desires that we repent of sin, be water baptized, and filled with the Holy Ghost (Acts 2:38). All three experiences are part of coming into the fullness of putting on Christ. In repentance we die to sin and self…in water baptism we are buried with him in baptism…in receiving the Holy Ghost we are raised to new life as we are born again of the Spirit. Death, burial, resurrection. We put on Christ by obeying the fullness of Acts 2:38. About the thief on the cross…he wasn’t a Christian, nor was he part of the New Testament church. You see Christ had yet to die and rise from the grave; so technically the thief died under the Old Covenant. Also the Holy Ghost wasn’t given until Pentecost. This is regarded as the birth day of “the church”. The thief was a sinner turning to his high priest (Christ) under the Old Covenant. Christ, the high priest, was offering himself up as a sacrifice for all people and was going to provide salvation to this thief based on fulfilling the Old Covenant…the thief wasn’t a Christian. Today we are Christians. We believe in the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. Unless those things are believed one isn’t a Christian. Therefore, the thief wasn’t a Christian. He was a repentant Jew. Here is what the Bible has to say about water baptism, its importance, and its role in the Christian experienceMatthew 28:19 KJV)(19) Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: (Mark 16:16-17 KJV)(16) He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (17) And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;(John 3:5 KJV)(5) Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.(Acts 2:38-41 KJV)(38) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (39) For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. (40) And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. (41) Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.(Acts 8:14-17 KJV)(14) Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: (15) Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: (16) (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) (17) Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.(Acts 10:44-48 KJV) (44) While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. (45) And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. (46) For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, (47) Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? (48) And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.(Acts 19:1-6 KJV)(1) And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, (2) He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. (3) And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. (4) Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. (5) When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. (6) And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.(Acts 22:16 KJV)(16) And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.(Romans 6:3-4 KJV)(3) Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? (4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.(1 Corinthians 12:13 KJV)(13) For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.(Galatians 3:27 KJV)(27) For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.(Colossians 2:12 KJV)(12) Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.(1 Peter 3:21 KJV)(21) The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

 

[Aquila]

Ephesians mentions "one baptism":Ephesians 4:5 - One Lord, one faith, one baptism,Many use this verse in an attempt to pitch water baptism against spirit baptism. I don't believe that's possible. There are two facets to one person. A man is both physical and spiritual. We have body and spirit yet we are one whole. I believe the "one baptism" has two components water & Spirit. And these two elements of baptism are essential elements of the one baptism. If one isn't water baptized or is water baptized but not Spirit baptized...they have yet to fully experience the "one baptism".

 

[Christina]

John baptised with Water because the Christ spirit was not avaiable before his death. Water is nothing but symbolic it can save no one only Christ saves there's one baptism of the holy spirit that comes with acceptance and repentance Christ is the living WaterJhn 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

 

[winsome]

(kriss;54132)
Baptism is between you your heart and God it does not have to be a cermony or done by another person or in a building You can become baptised in a battel field all by yourself.
I do not see any scripture supporting this krissJesus clearly says “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptising them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit” (Mt 28:19) It is something done to you by another with specific words.

 

[Christina]

Where is scripture that says different ?????? Can one think another man can know your heart better than God??? Where does it say this must be a cermony?????? This is our perception a tradition of men Anyone that accepts Christ is baptised in his spirit anywhere any time this is the promise of God A public cermony is to anounce to the World our New found faith but it is the promise between the man and God that gives us our baptism. Jhn 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

 

[winsome]

(kriss;54136)
John baptised with Water because the Christ spirit was not avaiable before his death. Water is nothing but symbolic it can save no one only Christ saves there's one baptism of the holy spirit that comes with acceptance and repentance Christ is the living Water
Water is symbolic of what God is doing - yes. But God acts in response to what we do, our obedience to his command. He commanded us to baptise with water. When we do this it is symbolic of the forgiveness of sins, the regeneration as a new creature, a child of God, entry to the New Covenant. God does that part of it - when we do what he commanded.

 

[Jordan]

(Aquila;54134)
I believe that baptism is a command of Scripture. Failure to baptize, as a church, is a failure to obey the Lord’s commission… or refusal to be baptized as a believer is disobedience. I don’t believe that water baptism saves a person…but disobedience can cost one their soul. God desires that we repent of sin, be water baptized, and filled with the Holy Ghost (Acts 2:38). All three experiences are part of coming into the fullness of putting on Christ. In repentance we die to sin and self…in water baptism we are buried with him in baptism…in receiving the Holy Ghost we are raised to new life as we are born again of the Spirit. Death, burial, resurrection. We put on Christ by obeying the fullness of Acts 2:38. About the thief on the cross…he wasn’t a Christian, nor was he part of the New Testament church. You see Christ had yet to die and rise from the grave; so technically the thief died under the Old Covenant. Also the Holy Ghost wasn’t given until Pentecost. This is regarded as the birth day of “the church”. The thief was a sinner turning to his high priest (Christ) under the Old Covenant. Christ, the high priest, was offering himself up as a sacrifice for all people and was going to provide salvation to this thief based on fulfilling the Old Covenant…the thief wasn’t a Christian. Today we are Christians. We believe in the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. Unless those things are believed one isn’t a Christian. Therefore, the thief wasn’t a Christian. He was a repentant Jew. Here is what the Bible has to say about water baptism, its importance, and its role in the Christian experienceMatthew 28:19 KJV)(19) Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: (Mark 16:16-17 KJV)(16) He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (17) And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;(John 3:5 KJV)(5) Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.(Acts 2:38-41 KJV)(38) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (39) For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. (40) And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. (41) Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.(Acts 8:14-17 KJV)(14) Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: (15) Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: (16) (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) (17) Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.(Acts 10:44-48 KJV) (44) While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. (45) And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. (46) For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, (47) Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? (48) And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.(Acts 19:1-6 KJV)(1) And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, (2) He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. (3) And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. (4) Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. (5) When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. (6) And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.(Acts 22:16 KJV)(16) And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.(Romans 6:3-4 KJV)(3) Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? (4) Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.(1 Corinthians 12:13 KJV)(13) For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.(Galatians 3:27 KJV)(27) For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.(Colossians 2:12 KJV)(12) Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.(1 Peter 3:21 KJV)(21) The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
Water Baptism was made by man. In this case, John the Baptist.Matthew 3:1 - In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea,Matthew 3:2 - And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.Matthew 3:3 - For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.Matthew 3:4 - And the same John had his raiment of camel's hair, and a leathern girdle about his loins; and his meat was locusts and wild honey.Matthew 3:5 - Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan,Matthew 3:6 - And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.Matthew 3:7 - But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?Matthew 3:8 - Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:Matthew 3:9 - And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.Matthew 3:10 - And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.Matthew 3:11 - I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:Did you hear that? Water Baptism was made by John the Baptist, and Christ baptism is the Baptism of the Holy Ghost (Spirit)I will repeat...Sure He did it at Matthew 3:13-17. But it is symbolic to what Christ said at John 3:5-7.How can anyone deny this scripture?Ephesians 4:5 - One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

 

[treeoflife]

(Aquila;54134)
About the thief on the cross…he wasn’t a Christian, nor was he part of the New Testament church. You see Christ had yet to die and rise from the grave; so technically the thief died under the Old Covenant. Also the Holy Ghost wasn’t given until Pentecost. This is regarded as the birth day of “the church”. The thief was a sinner turning to his high priest (Christ) under the Old Covenant. Christ, the high priest, was offering himself up as a sacrifice for all people and was going to provide salvation to this thief based on fulfilling the Old Covenant…the thief wasn’t a Christian.
Actually, you are incorrect. Jesus died before both of those cruicified with Him.

John 19:32-34Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him. But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs: But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.​

The way I understand it, is that they would break the legs of those on the cross, because in doing so it causes them to die by suffication, not being able to hold there own selves up any longer, they soon die. Regardless, the soldiers *broke the legs* of those cruicified w/ Jesus, but *did not break* Jesus' legs because, as we are told, Jesus was already dead. Jesus already being dead is what detoured the soldiers from breaking His legs, unlike those beside Jesus... who were still alive at the time.Jesus died before the theif on the cross, and the theif was not baptized. True, pentecost had not come... but Jesus had been sacrificed. Though He had not risen from the dead, Jesus did die before the theif. Keep in mind that Jesus said, "It is finished," before the theif on the cross died. I believe when Jesus said, "It is finished," He meant it. Jesus did not say, "It is finished" as He came from the tomb... or as he ascended to heaven. He said it as His life was about to expire, on the cross, prior to the theif's death. Jesus died before the theif, and it is finished... making the theif... a Christian, as Christ died before Him, and it was indeed finished.

 

[winsome]

(kriss;54139)
Where is scripture that says different ?????? If one thinks another man can know your heart better than God??? Where does it say this must be a cermony?????? This is our perception a tradition of men anyone Anyone that accepts Christ is baptised in his spirit anywhere any time this is the promise of God Jhn 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
You can't just take one piece of scripture and assume it gives the whole picture. Jesus wasn’t giving systematic theology in a highly structured way. Nor were the writers of scripture. The Jewish mind didn’t work like that. They weren’t Greek philosophers. Take the kingdom of heaven for example. Jesus did not give us one simple philosophical definition but said things like:- the kingdom of heaven is like….…a mustard seed (Mt 13:31)…a treasure buried in a field (Mt 13:44)…a merchant searching for fine pearls (Mt 13:45)…a net thrown into the sea (Mt 13:47)…a king who decided to settle his accounts (Mt 18:23)…a landowner who went out at dawn to hire labourers (Mt 20:1)…a king who decided to give a wedding banquet for his son (Mt 22:2)So we have to look at the whole context of baptism and see how it develops.John (the Baptist) baptises with water.Jesus says we but be born from above, “no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit.Then Jesus and hid disciples baptise with water.Jesus commands his apostles to baptiseWe baptism with water in Acts (see my previous post).The Church continues to baptise with water for the next 2,000 years.Ceremony? Jesus gives us specific words.Philip takes the Eunuch down into the pool. Paul very clearly is giving us some ceremony when he says “Do you not know that all of us who have been baptised into Christ Jesus were baptised into his death? Therefore we have been buried with him by baptism into death, so that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.” (Rom 6:3-4)..

 

[treeoflife]

People thinking that someone MUST be baptized to attain salvation, or that one could lose their salvation by not being baptized... is baffeling to me. It makes me wonder what else they think a person must do to attain salvation... or what things they could do to lose it. Baptism is a work as any other. A good work, as we are told to do it. Though, it does not save and it does not condemn. It is a work.

 

[Jordan]

(treeoflife;54144)
People thinking that someone MUST be baptized to attain salvation, or that one could lose their salvation by not being baptized... is baffeling to me. It makes me wonder what else they think a person must do to attain salvation... or what things they could do to lose it. Baptism is a work as any other. A good work, as we are told to do it. Though, it does not save and it does not condemn. It is a work.

Glad to hear this.

 

[Christina]

It seems what we have here in this thread is a lack to understand what Baptism is It is not a ceremony, it is not a bath, it is not one man(minister) giving something to someone The only right answer to this question is What is baptism ??It is a promise a covenant made between you and God from your heart that you accept Jesus Christ as your lord and savior that you believe Christ died for your sins and repent in his name in this you become a new person, the Holy spirit now dwells within you and you have the promise of Salvation. that is what baptism is period. This can be done by anyone anywhere That is the promise of God. To hinge Gods promise on some man made cermony is to deny Gods promise. How one declares this promise wether in public or private does not matter.

 

[Christina]

(winsome;54143)
You can't just take one piece of scripture and assume it gives the whole picture. Jesus wasn’t giving systematic theology in a highly structured way. Nor were the writers of scripture. The Jewish mind didn’t work like that. They weren’t Greek philosophers. Take the kingdom of heaven for example. Jesus did not give us one simple philosophical definition but said things like:- the kingdom of heaven is like….…a mustard seed (Mt 13:31)…a treasure buried in a field (Mt 13:44)…a merchant searching for fine pearls (Mt 13:45)…a net thrown into the sea (Mt 13:47)…a king who decided to settle his accounts (Mt 18:23)…a landowner who went out at dawn to hire labourers (Mt 20:1)…a king who decided to give a wedding banquet for his son (Mt 22:2)So we have to look at the whole context of baptism and see how it develops.John (the Baptist) baptises with water.Jesus says we but be born from above, “no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit.Then Jesus and hid disciples baptise with water.Jesus commands his apostles to baptiseWe baptism with water in Acts (see my previous post).The Church continues to baptise with water for the next 2,000 years.Ceremony? Jesus gives us specific words.Philip takes the Eunuch down into the pool. Paul very clearly is giving us some ceremony when he says “Do you not know that all of us who have been baptised into Christ Jesus were baptised into his death? Therefore we have been buried with him by baptism into death, so that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.” (Rom 6:3-4)..
And when I have time I can prove in some of the earlist of christian writing this was understood well that water does nothing church that made this a tradition it has nothing to do the promise of God. Its a great tradition that harms no one and in fact can be very pleasing to some to publicly affirm their promise so in that it is a desired way of many but it is not required.WE are saved by grace in faith nothing else.

 

[Aquila]

(kriss;54136)
John baptised with Water because the Christ spirit was not avaiable before his death. Water is nothing but symbolic it can save no one only Christ saves there's one baptism of the holy spirit that comes with acceptance and repentance Christ is the living WaterJhn 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
You're right...water can't save anyone. But we are told that disobedience can cost one their soul, Romans 2:8But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,2 Thessalonians 1:8In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:2 Thessalonians 3:14And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.1 Peter 4:17For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?The question isn't so much "Does water baptism save?" The question is...Is water baptism a command to be obeyed in the New Testament Church? Well...(Matthew 28:19 KJV)(19) Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: (Mark 16:16-17 KJV)(16) He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (17) And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;(John 3:5 KJV)(5) Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.(Acts 10:44-48 KJV) (44) While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. (45) And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. (46) For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, (47) Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? (48) And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.I firmly believe that while water doesn't save and cannot save...we are commanded to water baptize. Failure to water baptize or to be water baptized is direct rebellion and disobedience to the gospel. It is this rebellion and disobedience to the written Word of God that could cost one their soul.

 

[Aquila]

(treeoflife;54142)
Actually, you are incorrect. Jesus died before both of those cruicified with Him.

John 19:32-34Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him. But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs: But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.​

The way I understand it, is that they would break the legs of those on the cross, because in doing so it causes them to die by suffication, not being able to hold there own selves up any longer, they soon die. Regardless, the soldiers *broke the legs* of those cruicified w/ Jesus, but *did not break* Jesus' legs because, as we are told, Jesus was already dead. Jesus already being dead is what detoured the soldiers from breaking His legs, unlike those beside Jesus... who were still alive at the time.Jesus died before the theif on the cross, and the theif was not baptized. True, pentecost had not come... but Jesus had been sacrificed. Though He had not risen from the dead, Jesus did die before the theif. Keep in mind that Jesus said, "It is finished," before the theif on the cross died. I believe when Jesus said, "It is finished," He meant it. Jesus did not say, "It is finished" as He came from the tomb... or as he ascended to heaven. He said it as His life was about to expire, on the cross, prior to the theif's death. Jesus died before the theif, and it is finished... making the theif... a Christian, as Christ died before Him, and it was indeed finished.
It's not enough that Christ died...Christ had not yet risen. He said it was finished...meaning all in relation to the Old Covenant. The Church wasn't born until Pentecost. The theif wasn't a "Christian" or part of the "church".Also it can be argued that the theif was water baptized being a Jew.