Assisted dying

[Rita]

Looks as if they are going to introduce a bill in parliament for this, it was voted for yesterday and got approved.
I honestly sit in the middle with some of it , watching many suffer makes you aware that end of life is horrible sometimes. Also are we sometimes contributing to that death by putting in drivers with morphine in it anyway, we know it speeds things up.
Life/ Death is complicated with all the medical help available for sustains life , do we play God anyway.
Be interested in your views - do they ever discuss this issue in your countries ?
Would you vote for or against it ?
Would you want that option if you had terminal cancer, or dementia or a progressive illness that would make you decline in an awful way ?
Just to give context, at the moment it will only be those with 6months or less to live that will be given the option., However I think, in time, it could change and become a slippery slope

 

[IronMaiden]

It seems like, to me personally, that going to heaven to be with Jesus is the most wonderful thing, so when my time comes, I would not want anything done to keep me here.

I would vote against it.

 

[Rita]

It seems like, to me personally, that going to heaven to be with Jesus is the most wonderful thing, so when my time comes, I would not want anything done to keep me here.

I would vote against it.

Would you desire to be there sooner if you knew it was going to happen but were in so much pain - do you think that might waver your decision if it was offered ?
This is more out of curiosity than making any kind of judgment - I have been back and fourth with what I might do x

 

[Rita]

Also If someone you loved was really suffering how would you handle it if they chose this option - it kind of springs up all kinds of dilemmas with how to handle the whole issue

 

[IronMaiden]

Would you desire to be there sooner if you knew it was going to happen but were in so much pain - do you think that might waver your decision if it was offered ?
This is more out of curiosity than making any kind of judgment - I have been back and fourth with what I might do x

I wonder if I’m misunderstanding the options. What are they? What would I be voting for?

 

[Windmill Charge]

Imagine you are in charge of a group of hospitals, people of medical insurance company or government minister for health.

You have to manage a budget that pays for a wide range of medical care, part of which is the care for the dying.
Your budget can be greatly benefited if palative care is replaced by assisted dying as early as possible in the expected life of the dying.
In fact many expensive treatments can be cheapen by subtle encouraging the patient to die!
Expensive research budgets into pain treatment, cancer etc etc can be cut as the dying accept their duty to die.

Think I'm exaggerating, look at the neitherlands where depressed children can opt for assisted dying.

 

[Rockerduck]

It is God who gives life. If man takes a life, it is murder. God spelled this out at the very beginning, knowing how mankind can pervert the law of God. People can get depressed because of a lack of purpose. I've dealt with depressed people, and a large percentage can function on a drug. But put a purpose and goal in front of them and remarkably they can step up. The big thing about depression, is how selfish they are. They demand from others, which drives people away who want to help. This is why families give up on them. Then they want to kill themselves because of the hurt they cause others. Its a slippery slope, families usually say good riddance. But God says do not murder. If they kill themselves, it is still murder. I've never seen a Christian take this route because they know the word of God.

Genesis 9:5-6 -
Surely for your lifeblood I will demand a reckoning; from the hand of every beast I will require it, and from the hand of man. From the hand of every man’s brother I will require the life of man. 6 “Whoever sheds man’s blood,
By man, his blood shall be shed; For in the image of God He made man.

Exodus 20:13 - 13 “You shall not murder.

 

[Scott Downey]

Fall into the hands of the Lord instead of man. But today people do not take God seriously, just as an uncaring impotent mythical god.

13 So Gad came to David and told him; and he said to him, “Shall seven[a] years of famine come to you in your land? Or shall you flee three months before your enemies, while they pursue you? Or shall there be three days’ plague in your land? Now consider and see what answer I should take back to Him who sent me.”

14 And David said to Gad, “I am in great distress. Please let us fall into the hand of the Lord, for His mercies are great; but do not let me fall into the hand of man.”

15 So the Lord sent a plague upon Israel from the morning till the appointed time. From Dan to Beersheba seventy thousand men of the people died.

 

[Scott Downey]

Many people will do what they will without being rich towards God.
God will choose for them their delusions.

Isaiah 66
Thus says the Lord:

“Heaven is My throne,
And earth is My footstool.
Where is the house that you will build Me?
And where is the place of My rest?
2 For all those things My hand has made,
And all those things exist,”
Says the Lord.
“But on this one will I look:
On him who is poor and of a contrite spirit,
And who trembles at My word.
3 “He who kills a bull is as if he slays a man;
He who sacrifices a lamb, as if he breaks a dog’s neck;
He who offers a grain offering, as if he offers swine’s blood;
He who burns incense, as if he blesses an idol.
Just as they have chosen their own ways,
And their soul delights in their abominations,
4 So will I choose their delusions,
And bring their fears on them;
Because, when I called, no one answered,
When I spoke they did not hear;
But they did evil before My eyes,
And chose that in which I do not delight.”

Interesting to think, we do not build God a house, God builds His house in us, as in His home.

 

[Rita]

I wonder if I’m misunderstanding the options. What are they? What would I be voting for?

Would you ever , or agree, with assisted dying xx

 

[Rita]

Imagine you are in charge of a group of hospitals, people of medical insurance company or government minister for health.

You have to manage a budget that pays for a wide range of medical care, part of which is the care for the dying.
Your budget can be greatly benefited if palative care is replaced by assisted dying as early as possible in the expected life of the dying.
In fact many expensive treatments can be cheapen by subtle encouraging the patient to die!
Expensive research budgets into pain treatment, cancer etc etc can be cut as the dying accept their duty to die.

Think I'm exaggerating, look at the neitherlands where depressed children can opt for assisted dying.

Yes, good points.
Although it has been the terminally ill that have pushing for this here in the U.K. and the debate has been going on for years. Up until the Vote yesterday it failed to get through. However what you have mentioned is the slippery slope that it could eventually go down.
It wouldn’t perhaps be aligned to the elderly at the moment as you Cannot actually determine if they only have six months, and that is a criteria.

 

[Rita]

It is God who gives life. If man takes a life, it is murder. God spelled this out at the very beginning, knowing how mankind can pervert the law of God. People can get depressed because of a lack of purpose. I've dealt with depressed people, and a large percentage can function on a drug. But put a purpose and goal in front of them and remarkably they can step up. The big thing about depression, is how selfish they are. They demand from others, which drives people away who want to help. This is why families give up on them. Then they want to kill themselves because of the hurt they cause others. Its a slippery slope, families usually say good riddance. But God says do not murder. If they kill themselves, it is still murder. I've never seen a Christian take this route because they know the word of God.

Genesis 9:5-6 -
Surely for your lifeblood I will demand a reckoning; from the hand of every beast I will require it, and from the hand of man. From the hand of every man’s brother I will require the life of man. 6 “Whoever sheds man’s blood,
By man, his blood shall be shed; For in the image of God He made man.

Exodus 20:13 - 13 “You shall not murder.

Yes, this is more where I would fall - but it could be argued that we are already playing God when morphine is administered for pain relief as it speeds up the decline. Most of us would not disagree with having pain relief, even at a high dose - but in essence you are slowly killing yourself .

 

[Scott Downey]

Legal or not it's been going on here in the US a long time.​

The Listed states are all Democratic controlled areas.

What to Know About Physician-Assisted Death

What is physician-assisted death, and when is it appropriate? Find out everything you need to know.

www.webmd.com

​

Is Physician-Assisted Death Legal in the U.S.?​

Physician-assisted dying is legal in the following states under different laws:

• California
• Colorado
• Hawaii
• Maine
• Montana
• New Jersey
• New Mexico
• Oregon
• Vermont
• Washington, DC
• Washington

 

[Rockerduck]

Yes, this is more where I would fall - but it could be argued that we are already playing God when morphine is administered for pain relief as it speeds up the decline. Most of us would not disagree with having pain relief, even at a high dose - but in essence you are slowly killing yourself .

I would argue that Christians do not have many of the same problems as non-Christians. Jesus looks after His children, and suffering draws us closer to God and makes our testimony stronger, even in the Hospital, where your testimony can be heard.

 

[Bob]

Thank you all for your well-reasoned posts.

My brother-in-law was diagnosed with melanoma. He allowed the professionals to test many cures, all of which did not halt the disease (but gave them useful information). Finally, the pain from the medicines became overwhelming, and he stopped them all and let the cancer take its course. (My hero.)

Many of us say, do not undertake expensive treatments to prolong my life, if it is manifestly deteriorating. Let God’s will prevail.

So, what if you are in prolonged pain, and you cannot take of yourself (much less anyone else): would you “give up” and discontinue all treatment (despite family wanting otherwise)?

Peace be with you.

 

[Scott Downey]

I knew a man who when I asked years ago if he was diagnosed as terminal with months to live what he would do. He said he would drink himself into oblivion on a mountain cliff and fall off.

It just struck me as an attitude of hopelessness, not overcoming the world by your faith.
Why would God bless such a thing.
Many people are already far down the path to destruction

1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. 2 Then I, [a]John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. 4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”

5 Then He who sat on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” And He said [b]to me, “Write, for these words are true and faithful.”

6 And He said to me, “It[c] is done! I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts. 7 He who overcomes [d]shall inherit all things, and I will be his God and he shall be My son. 8 But the cowardly, [e]unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

 

[Lambano]

When our son went into his final coma, we had to make the decision to remove the feeding tube and the IVs. That's not as direct an action as a morphine shot, but it was still tough. It was still an action that resulted in death.

 

[Rita]

Legal or not it's been going on here in the US a long time.​

The Listed states are all Democratic controlled areas.

What to Know About Physician-Assisted Death

What is physician-assisted death, and when is it appropriate? Find out everything you need to know.

www.webmd.com

​

Is Physician-Assisted Death Legal in the U.S.?​

Physician-assisted dying is legal in the following states under different laws:

• California
• Colorado
• Hawaii
• Maine
• Montana
• New Jersey
• New Mexico
• Oregon
• Vermont
• Washington, DC
• Washington

Wow , I did not know that ,my son was surprised as well.

 

[Rita]

When our son went into his final coma, we had to make the decision to remove the feeding tube and the IVs. That's not as direct an action as a morphine shot, but it was still tough.

What a very difficult decision to make xxxxx

 

[Lambano]

What a very difficult decision to make xxxxx

It's a decision that HAD to be made.

We were told that if he gave any indication that he was in pain, the hospice nurse could give him something.