Jesus is a Jewish monotheist, and everyone knows, or should, that Jewish monotheism is strict unitarianism.
Don’t play games you can’t afford to lose.
Are you sending your neighbors to Hell?
- Thread starter St. SteVen
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Jesus is a Jewish monotheist, and everyone knows, or should, that Jewish monotheism is strict unitarianism.
Don’t play games you can’t afford to lose.
Good question
Jesus is the Prince of peace between God and man
HE is the reconciliation.
Jesus dies so we are saved from the wrath of God, as we were at enmity with God.
Jesus died to give us eternal life so that our citizenship is in heaven.
Colossians 1
16 For by him were all things created which are in heaven, and which are in earth, things visible and invisible: whether they be [q]Thrones, or Dominions, or Principalities, or Powers, all things were created by him, and for him.
17 And he is before all things, and in him all things consist.
18 [r]And he is the head of the body of the Church: he is the beginning, and the [s]first begotten of the dead, that in all things he might have the preeminence.
19 For it pleased the Father, that in him should [t]all fullness dwell.
20 [u]And through peace made by that blood of that his cross, to reconcile to himself through him, through him, I say, [v]all things, both which are in earth, and which are in heaven.
21 [w]And you which were in times past strangers and enemies, because your minds were set in evil works, hath [x]he now also reconciled,
22 In that body of his [y]flesh through death, to make you holy and unblameable, and without fault in his sight.
St. SteVen said:
Did Jesus die to save us from God?
The question is designed to point out the absurdity of Christian doctrine on the subject.
So, it surprises me when I get a response like yours. No offense, but it seems like the typical
knee-jerk reaction that I get from Christians, that shows that they gave it little thought.
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Did Jesus die to save us from God?
Thanks for your response.
The question is designed to point out the absurdity of Christian doctrine on the subject.
So, it surprises me when I get a response like yours. No offense, but it seems like the typical
knee-jerk reaction that I get from Christians, that shows that they gave it little thought.
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If Jesus died to save us from God, then the problem isn't on our end.
It indicates that something is terribly wrong with God. (or our twisted view of Him)
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Agree.
Why are we at enmity with God?
Was the Fall a big surprise? (or part of the plan)
What was the plan?
Sorry for so many post responses. Well worth discussing. IMHO
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Jesus really does save us from the wrath of God to come on this world, v10.
First world destroyed by water, the second reserved for fire and the destruction of the ungodly, and then a new creation.
No doubt as still happens today, the people of Noah's age would not have believed their world was about to come crashing down around them with waves of water, and they were about to perish, every single one of them.
It is a good thing discuss these things as we both know many are listening on the outside of these discussions, and it might be stirring some hearts to turn to the true living God and be saved from the coming judgement of the Last Day, which end is going to be bad for many. Jesus warned us many will be deceived, and follow Satan and the beast, that coming worldwide system of government before the final battle of Armageddon. It is interesting to note that battle at the end of time in the popular culture is a popular subject now and dystopian movies all the rage. The feel it in their bones, the end of all things is coming.
1 Peter 4:7 But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober and watch unto prayer.
2 Peter 3
Beloved, I now write to you this second epistle (in both of which I stir up your pure minds by way of reminder), 2 that you may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of [a]us, the apostles of the Lord and Savior, 3 knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, 4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.” 5 For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water, 6 by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water. 7 But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and [b]perdition of ungodly men.
1 Thess 1
1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timothy, Unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
2 We give thanks to God always for you all, making mention of you in our prayers,
3 remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labor of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father,
4 knowing, brethren beloved, of your election by God.
5 For our Gospel came unto you not in word only, but also in power and in the Holy Ghost and in much assurance, as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake.
6 And ye became followers of us and of the Lord, having received the Word in much affliction, with the joy of the Holy Ghost,
7 so that ye were examples to all who believe in Macedonia and Achaia.
8 For from you sounded forth the Word of the Lord, not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place your faith to Godward is spread abroad, so that we need not speak anything.
9 For they themselves show of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God,
10 and to wait for His Son from Heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus, who delivered us from the wrath to come.
God is not surprised, the Fall in Eden, who allowed Satan into the garden?
Revelation 13:8
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the Book of Life of the Lamb, slain from the foundation of the world.
Enmity means strong dislike or hatred, and I think it is due to our being separated from God by the fall in Eden, and by living in the lusts of our flesh in this world, we are exposed to the sway of Satan from our youth. It is a natural consequence.
Like Ephesians 2 shows
God's word translation
You were once dead because of your failures and sins. 2 You followed the ways of this present world and its spiritual ruler. This ruler continues to work in people who refuse to obey God. 3 All of us once lived among these people, and followed the desires of our corrupt nature. We did what our corrupt desires and thoughts wanted us to do. So, because of our nature, we deserved God’s anger just like everyone else.
4 But God is rich in mercy because of his great love for us. 5 We were dead because of our failures, but he made us alive together with Christ. (It is God’s kindness [a] that saved you.) 6 God has brought us back to life together with Christ Jesus and has given us a position in heaven with him. 7 He did this through Christ Jesus out of his generosity to us in order to show his extremely rich kindness in the world to come. 8 God saved you through faith as an act of kindness. You had nothing to do with it. Being saved is a gift from God. 9 It’s not the result of anything you’ve done, so no one can brag about it. 10 God has made us what we are. He has created us in Christ Jesus to live lives filled with good works that he has prepared for us to do.
ESV
And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body[a] and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.[b]
4 But[c] God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— 6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
Do you think that global genocide was the best solution to the world problems in Noah's day?
It seems to be a very rash reaction to the problem. Destroy everything and start over? Wow.
Seems to be a mistake in planning. God was even quoted as saying he had regrets.
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"... all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God..." - Rom.3:23 NIV
And this is deserving of wrath? Perhaps we need to discuss what that means? (wrath)
Does God have anger management issues? (tyrant) ???
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I suppose from our vantage point, it is extreme. God says he was grieved He had made man. The earth was made to be inhabited, so God had made the earth for man. But every thought of man's heart is evil from His youth at this time.
Genesis 6:5
Then the Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Genesis 6:6
And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart.
The determined salvation in Christ where God changes our heart to make us new creations in Christ was still in the future of His plan, so there was no way those people would ever repent of their wickedness, Christ was to be born in time according to plan, God knows all things, God sees their end, so then He just ends it all and starts over. Like you have something totally rotten and fallen apart, rusted away to nothing, beyond repair, and there is nothing left to do for it, the end for it is to be burned. And then Satan and the demons were raging around having a great time, why would you want to let that continue forever.
God does not keep people as pets. He made man to fellowship with Him and we with Him.
Of course this is just my thinking, I don't have the mind of God.
One major benefit besides offering a reset to mankind by the flood, is the angels who sinned in that time, God locked up in dungeons, called Tartarus, to await the judgement of the great Day.
They are no longer free to corrupt the human race, the ones who sinned and created the Nephilim, Halfbreeds of angel and men, which some call giants.
Since not all bad angels did God lock away from mankind, must refer to something specific about their sins.
You can read of that in Geneses 6
2 Peter 2
4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to [b]hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 5 and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly;
6 and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly; 7 and delivered righteous Lot, who was oppressed by the filthy conduct of the wicked 8 (for that righteous man, dwelling among them, tormented his righteous soul from day to day by seeing and hearing their lawless deeds)—
9 then the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment, 10 and especially those who walk according to the flesh in the lust of uncleanness and despise authority. They are presumptuous, self-willed. They are not afraid to speak evil of [c]dignitaries, 11 whereas angels, who are greater in power and might, do not bring a reviling accusation against them before the Lord.
Jude
5 But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.
6 And the angels who did not keep their [c]proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day;
7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the [d]vengeance of eternal fire.
The angels (celestial beings who should have remained in heaven) who left their own abode, came down to earth and were making havoc before the flood, having a grand old time. Taking women for wives and birthing the giants.
They God locked away and they won't be coming back
They are no longer free to corrupt the human race, the ones who sinned and created the Nephilim, Halfbreeds of angel and men, which some call giants.
Since not all bad angels did God lock away from mankind, must refer to something specific about their sins.
You can read of that in Geneses 6
2 Peter 2
4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to [b]hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 5 and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly;
6 and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly; 7 and delivered righteous Lot, who was oppressed by the filthy conduct of the wicked 8 (for that righteous man, dwelling among them, tormented his righteous soul from day to day by seeing and hearing their lawless deeds)—
9 then the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment, 10 and especially those who walk according to the flesh in the lust of uncleanness and despise authority. They are presumptuous, self-willed. They are not afraid to speak evil of [c]dignitaries, 11 whereas angels, who are greater in power and might, do not bring a reviling accusation against them before the Lord.
Jude
5 But I want to remind you, though you once knew this, that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe.
6 And the angels who did not keep their [c]proper domain, but left their own abode, He has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness for the judgment of the great day;
7 as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the [d]vengeance of eternal fire.
The angels (celestial beings who should have remained in heaven) who left their own abode, came down to earth and were making havoc before the flood, having a grand old time. Taking women for wives and birthing the giants.
They God locked away and they won't be coming back
New topic:
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Of what value is the fulfillment of OT prophecy? - since the prophecies were acquired rather than intended
This is a follow-up to the previous topic: Were messianic prophecies acquired, rather than intended? (in the original texts) https://www.christianityboard.com/threads/were-messianic-prophecies-acquired-rather-than-intended-in-the-original-texts.67180/ In the previous topic it was somewhat...
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Isaiah 59:3 NIV
For your hands are stained with blood,
your fingers with guilt.
Your lips have spoken falsely,
and your tongue mutters wicked things.
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