Are Mormons Christians? (Latter Day Saints)

[MatthewG]

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10 core differences between LDS and Truth

Everything I shared here is a base requirement to be a "Mormon". You can't be "Mormon" without believing Jesus Christ is your Savior, Son of God, etc. It's the most basic foundation, and too often people in these conversations litterally just ignore it, which is wrong on all fronts.

And people can fake that. I am not saying you are...

People are allowed to talk about organizations. If its personal attacks that's a different story.

 

[TheOneHeLoves]

LDS Christians like myself believe that God still speaks to the world, just like He did in ancient times. There's still living prophets preaching His words, and He can still give revelation/scripture. The "Book of Mormon" is one such example.

that is not an example of what new message/revelation

 

[Jane_Doe22]

10 core differences between LDS and Truth

And people can fake that. I am not saying you are...

People are allowed to talk about organizations. If its personal attacks that's a different story.

If someone says "Mormons aren't Christian", then that's inherently a personal attack, denying my relationship with Christ, plus millions of other people's relationships tie Him too.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

that is not an example of what new message/revelation

I am confused by this statement. Could you rephrase? What would you consider to be new revelation?

 

[TheOneHeLoves]

Sure. An example of revelation that's not canonize scripture is the "Proclamation on the Family", link below. Given in the 1995, it speaks very directly about how marriage is between a man & a woman, gender is an eternal characteristic, and the importance of having a good environment at home to raise kids. Also the importance of eternal families (LDS Christians believe these bonds are eternal). Now, of course these points were spoken of previously, but reiterating it before the current culture wars is very on point.

LinkL The Family Proclamation

Do you not believe that scriptures in the Holy Bible already address that God made man and woman and that only marriage is between man and woman and that man is head of household, to be married to one woman, that sex is only in marriage.

God's standard for man and woman and marriage and family is not new revelation. Nothing needs to be updated or changed.

Also no where in scripture says that were were once spirits in heaven and receive a mortal body. We are created beings on earth. Angels were created first by Him to be with Him in heaven. What is your reference?

 

[MatthewG]

If someone says "Mormons aren't Christian", then that's inherently a personal attack, denying my relationship with Christ, plus millions of other people's relationships tie Him too.

no it is not.

I am fixing to just ignore you all together.

You need to stop making this about yourself. It's about the Organization... it's not all just teaching things of Christ... sorry. If you wanna be in that religion organization by all means go ahead...



Many people are protecting the Organization, and I haven't said "Mormons aren't Christians believers." They also get taught other things beside just jesus, so you need to stop with all that.

 

[MatthewG]

Like still living apostles, and what not...

You better obey them, or you could be made to be an embarrassment in front of others...

All kinds of things are not what the bible talks about when it comes to the Mormon Orgnaization...


SORRY. That is just the truth. At one point in time Mormons were discouraged from seeking out information on the internet and what not...

Book of Mormon is not a bible, or extra revelation... it's thoughts of a man without the spirit.

Yeah over the past several years I got to learn a little bit about Mormonism....


Jesus didn't come to bring a new Religion... He came to destroy it.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

no it is not.

I am fixing to just ignore you all together.

You need to stop making this about yourself. It's about the Organization... it's not all just teaching things of Christ... sorry. If you wanna be in that religion organization by all means go ahead...



Many people are protecting the Organization, and I haven't said "Mormons aren't Christians believers." They also get taught other things beside just jesus, so you need to stop with all that.

Thinking logically: could someone say "Christian churches don't teach of Christ and do teach a bunch of other stuff added to the Bible". Would you be chill with that?

 

[MatthewG]

@Jane_Doe22

I am chill with exposing truth.

You can't go to any church for truth.

It's gotta be sought after... seeking in faith, worshiping in spirit and truth, the Father in heaven... Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life.


We know that but what is secretly taught in Mormonism like polgyam and having multiple wives, being your own god, all this other stuff which is hidden in the background....

Its just as the same as a Pastor in a Christian church having sex with one of the children there... ya know?

Ya can't find truth in a church.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Do you not believe that scriptures in the Holy Bible already address that God made man and woman and that only marriage is between man and woman and that man is head of household, to be married to one woman, that sex is only in marriage.

God's standard for man and woman and marriage and family is not new revelation. Nothing needs to be updated or changed.

Have you read scripture? There's a LOT of repetition of stuff in there, kind of like we humans tend to be really bad listeners ;)

Also no where in scripture says that were were once spirits in heaven and receive a mortal body. We are created beings on earth. Angels were created first by Him to be with Him in heaven. What is your reference?

Like Jeremiah 1:5?

I had a new nephew born this last month. I look at him, so full of personality and life, and to me is just doesn't make any sense to say "this kid in no way existed a year ago". Nor do I find the Bible saying that anywhere. God literally knew this kid more than 1 year ago.

 

[TheOneHeLoves]

Have you read scripture? There's a LOT of repetition of stuff in there, kind of like we humans tend to be really bad listeners ;)



Like Jeremiah 1:5?

I had a new nephew born this last month. I look at him, so full of personality and life, and to me is just doesn't make any sense to say "this kid in no way existed a year ago". Nor do I find the Bible saying that anywhere. God literally knew this kid more than 1 year ago.

God is outside of time. so yes God knows all things. WE can't understand that. He can give us the future not just the past and present so He can know us from the moment we are conceived to the moment we die and then eternity whether we are in hell or heaven.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

God is outside of time. so yes God knows all things. WE can't understand that. He can give us the future not just the past and present so He can know us from the moment we are conceived to the moment we die and then eternity whether we are in hell or heaven.

100% respect your interpretation there, while I interpret it differently.

 

[Super Kal]

That’s not true! That’s totally not true! In Matthew 10:14 Jesus taught “And if anyone will not receive you or listen to your words, shake off the dust from your feet when you leave that house or town.”

He did not teach to harass them, berate them, beat them, call them names, take their property or kill them (literally or euphemistically). In fact he warned against doing these things: whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire. Matthew 5:22

Christ also said to pray for and love your enemies. This covers even if you think Jane Doe is your theological enemy!

By you opposing those with different religious opinions THE WAY YOU DO, you reveal yourself to be in danger. Take heed, my friend. I love your passion. Do not let it destroy you.

Matthew 10:14 was written to the 72 disciples who God sent out two by two to preach the gospel... to day we are called to spread the gospel full in the highways and the byways, preaching the gospel, calling all to repentance, and warning all of the coming judgment. That is exactly what I'm doing in this thread. The parent that you yourself have never gone out and actually st preached before, because the way you talk to me, and the way that you talk about how the gospel should be preached, you have no idea what you're doing... and you should have read what Matthew 5:22 first said... i'll post it here for you, because like I have said you need to read the actual context of what you post:

"But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire."

The verse says "whoever is angry with his brother without a cause"... it does not simply say "whoever says"... Jane Doe 22 is not my brother or my sister, and neither are you, because she is a Mormon, a heretic and you approve of this heresy, and according to Romans 1:18-32, those who approve of this stuff deserve the same penalty as those who actually commit the sin.

In calling someone a heretic, and showing how the cult that they follow is heresy, and it is leading them to the second death, and telling them that they need to repent of their wickedness and false doctrine is not harassment, not berating, not beating them, not calling them names, not taking their property, And most certainly not killing them...
Once again, you want everyone to believe in some 70s Groovy Kumbaya Jesus from the Jesus movement that Chuck Smith started in the 1960s... that Jesus doesn't exist.

Jesus Himself flipped over tables and ran people out of his father's house with a whip. He then called the religious leaders of this day, which is akin to any false teacher or heretic, the blind leading the blind, broods of Vipers, Whitewashed Tombs, that certainly is not Mr "Kumbaya let's all hold hands and sing together around a fire"... The Apostle John fled a bathhouse because Cerinthus was in it, and John called him "the enemy of truth", Stephen preached the gospel to the sin sacrifice before he was stoned to death, And called every single false teacher "stiff-necked people" and their hearts and necks were uncircumcised"... back then, that was one of the worst insults you could tell a Jewish person, because they took pride in physical circumcision and pride in following Judaism.

It's really pathetic that you equate a Christian denomination

And I'm going to stop you right there, because the Mormon church is not a Christian denomination.
Is a cult. And time and time again throughout this entire thread, I have proven with quotes and sources from the Mormon church itself, from the Mormon presidents, from people who in their own church are considered apostles, and from the own books that they call scripture, that they follow a different Jesus, that they follow a different God, and because of that, they are not saved...
the Apostle Paul himself said in 2 Corinthians 11, in his time there were those that preached a different Jesus, and he warned the church and Corinth to not fall for it.

who has doctrines you don't agree with that has a long track record of fruitful work to those in the dark not producing fruit. It shows how desperate and weak your argument is.

If the alleged fruit is all for a false doctrine, a false religion an occult that teaches a false Jesus and a false God, then that faith is erroneous, that faith will not save you, and the works are all for nothing, because, once again, like I have been saying from the very beginning, Mormons believe in a different Jesus, they believe in a different god, And they follow a different gospel.

No comment on LDS being the 4th largest Christian denomination in the USA? I'll pray for you.

The size of a religion does not determine whether that religion is right or wrong. in the 2nd century, Gnosticism was the most fast growing religion in the known world, and if had not if it had not been for the early church, Gnosticism would have been the #1 largest religion, but thanks be to God for the early church, who fought against it, who defended the faith against it, and who preached the gospel to the lost and to the heretics

 

[Wrangler]

No matter how you put it, if someone believes another gospel, and another Jesus than what actual scripture (in the Bible) teaches, they're not a Christian.

This is nonsensical. She's not a follower of Jesus from East LA!

And I'm going to stop you right there, because the Mormon church is not a Christian denomination.

And that is where you are wrong, putting your opinion over the fact of the matter.

Inventing standards designed to fail an opponent. Not very intellectually honest.

 

[TheOneHeLoves]

100% respect your interpretation there, while I interpret it differently.

So you believe God created us as spirits and then sent us to earth? If so for what purpose? if we were perfect in heaven in perfect kingdom why would God take us out of it?

 

[Super Kal]

And that is where you are wrong, putting your opinion over the fact of the matter.
Inventing standards designed to fail an opponent. Not very intellectually honest.

You don't have a leg to stand on come out when it concerns rightfully labeling what a Christian denomination is and is not...
a Christian denomination follows the Biblical Jesus Christ:

the Jesus that bore our sins at the cross and not at the Garden of Gethsemane
the Jesus that did not have to qualify to be a redeemer
the Jesus that was not a man who became God in pre-existence...
The Jesus who is not the literal brother of Satan or our literal brother
The Jesus who is of the same material and same essence of the Father, not His literal son
The Jesus who did not have the potential to sin
The Jesus whose death on the cross was everything needed to forgive a person from their sin

These people are heretics, and you will suffer the second death for your approval of them.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Drop your opinions on whether you think Mormons (Latter Day Saints) are Christian or not and why, please keep all debating friendly, thought it would be a fun topic to start and I'm a little in between on the topic and I'd like to hear Christian viewpoints on the matter as Mormons do believe they are Christians.

The Mormon Fatih is not a Christian faith. However if an individual Mormon is trusting in the death and physical resurrection of Jesus for their salvation- they are a Christian even if they still believe in their magic underwear!

 

[MatthewG]

@Wrangler Mormonism and Christianity are both religions. Neither one of them save anyone. People can go to church religiously… it’s only the Lord Yeshua that saves. The only issue in the Mormon world, is there is more “revelation” more to “reveal” and “the only one true church of Latter Day Saints” hold that as a fact to themselves so if you really want to get to heaven you need to be a member of their church. That’s the material gist of it.

 

[Super Kal]

Are Mormons Christians? (Latter Day Saints)

Long-standing Statement of Belief/Faith…
LDS…
“We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.”

I find THAT single Statement justifiably fulfilling Gods desire for a man to freely BELIEVE that is his true heartful belief….for that individual to BE Sanctified (set apart) unto the Lord God Himself…For God to claim as His “inheritance”…

REALLY??? You think that's all it takes to make one saved? Why guest then according to you Jehovah's witness and Muslims are also saved too, because they believe in Jesus Christ too, and they also believe in God... but, you know what, for humor's sake, let's review, and ....esus that they believe in and follow:

Thirteenth President Ezra Taft Benson explained,
To qualify as the Redeemer of all our Father’s children, Jesus had to be perfectly obedient to all the laws of God. Because He subjected Himself to the will of the Father, He grew from grace to grace, until he received a fulness’ of the Father’s power. Thus He had “all power, both in heaven and on earth” (D&C 93:13,17)” (Sermons and Writings of President Ezra Taft Benson, p. 3).

Jesus had to be qualified in order to become the Redeemer of the world? That doesn't sound like the Holy Scriptures at all... the holy word of God says that from the very beginning Jesus Christ was the Redeemer of the world... he didn't have to do anything to qualify to be the Redeemer.

Sixth President Joseph F. Smith stated:
Even Christ himself was not perfect at first; he received not a fulness at first, but he received grace for grace, and he continued to receive more and more until he received a fulness (Gospel Doctrine, 1986, p. 68. See also Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph F. Smith, p. 153).

Jesus Christ wasn't perfect??? now that doesn't sound like the Jesus Christ that has been taught in the scriptures for the past 2000 years... the holy Word of God teaches that Jesus was born perfect, without sin, and there was nothing that Jesus had to do to become sinless, because He was God made manifest in the flesh, 2 Timothy 3:16

Seventy Milton R. Hunter provided this sentence in a book that was used as an official church manual:
Jesus became a God and reached His great state of understanding through consistent effort and continuous obedience to all the Gospel truths and universal laws (The Gospel Through the Ages, p. 51).

Jesus Christ never once had to learn obedience as a normal human being did... according to Philippians 2:5-11, Jesus was “in very nature God” but “did not consider equality with God something to be grasped.” Instead, He voluntarily became man in order to become the perfect sacrifice..

But what about the sins of the world, it was Jesus Christ who bore the sins of the world and paid for our sins, but the Holy Scriptures, the holy word of God, the Holy Bible, says that Jesus bore our sins, and paid for the essence of the world on the cross, Because that's what 1 Corinthians 1:17-18, Colossians 1:20, Galatians 6:14 tell us... but what does Mormonism teach?

Thirteenth President Ezra Taft Benson stated:
It was in Gethsemane that Jesus took on Himself the sins of the world, in Gethsemane that His pain was equivalent to the cumulative burden of all men, in Gethsemane that He descended below all things so that all could repent and come to Him (Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p. 14).

He also wrote:
To possess a testimony of Jesus is to know that He voluntarily took upon Himself the sins of all mankind in the Garden of Gethsemane, which caused Him to suffer in both body and spirit and to bleed from every pore. All this He did so that we would not have to suffer if we would repent. (See D&C 19:16, 18.) (Sermons and Writings of President Ezra Taft Benson, p. 12).

Jesus bore art sin at the Garden of Gethsemane... that doesn't sound like the Jesus Christ from the scriptures that I follow... are you so sure the exact same Jesus we do taken? Because when one examines the scriptures and their own leaders, they sure don't.

But let's continue... biblical Christianity teaches that Jesus Christ is of the same essence in nature as the father, that he was born of a virgin, Mary, preached a gospel of Repentance and faith, died on a cross, bore the sins of the world on the cross, was buried for three days and three nights, rose again, spent 40 days with his apostles and showing himself to at least 500 other people, and then ascending to the throne, where he now sits at the right hand of the father... but, let's see what the Mormon church says about Biblical Christianity...

Twelfth President Spencer W. Kimball wrote,
Men with keen intelligence got together… [at] Nicea and created a God. They did not pray for wisdom or revelation. They claimed no revelation from the Lord. They made it just about like a political party would do, and out of their own mortal minds created a God which is still worshiped by the great majority of Christians” (The Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, p. 426. Ellipsis and brackets in original).

Sixteenth President Thomas S. Monson agreed, adding,
In times past, great things journeyed in the crusades of Christianity, felling that, if only the Holy Land could be secured from the infidel, then Christ would be found in their lives. How mistaken they were. Thousands upon thousands perished. Many others committed heinous crimes in the very name of Christianity. Jesus will not be found by crusades of men. Still others searched for Jesus in councils of debate. Such was the historic Council of Nicea in 325 A.D. There, with the help of the Roman Emperor, the delegates did away in Christianity with the concept of a personal God and a personal Son–the two separate and distinct Glorified Beings of the scriptures. The Creed of Nicea, the ‘incomprehensible mystery’ of which its originators seemed so proud precisely because it could not be understood, substituted for the personal God of love and for Jesus of the New Testament an immaterial abstraction. The result was a maze of confusion and a compoundment of error. Jesus will not be found in councils of debate (“The Search for Jesus,” Conference Report, October 1965, pp. 143-143. Cited in Teachings of Thomas S. Monson, pp. 154-155).

His successor Gordon B. Hinckley agreed:
When the emperor Constantine was converted to Christianity, he became aware of the divisiveness among the clergy concerning the nature of Deity. In an attempt to overcome this he gathered the eminent divines of the day to Nicaea in the year 325. Each participant was given opportunity to state his views. The argument only grew more heated. When a definition could not be reached, a compromise was made. It came to be known as the Nicene Creed, and its basic elements are recited by most of the Christian faithful. Personally I cannot understand it. To me the creed is confusing. How deeply grateful I am that we of this Church do not rely on any man-made statement concerning the nature of Deity. Our knowledge comes directly from the personal experience of Joseph Smith, who, while yet a boy, spoke with God the Eternal Father and His Beloved Son, the Risen Lord” (“The Things of Which I know,” Ensign (Conference Edition), May 2007, p. 83).

So according to Mormonism... the Jesus that Christians, who are not part of the Mormon church, follow... is a made up, mythical, fake Jesus that never existed in the first place

 

[Jane_Doe22]

So you believe God created us as spirits and then sent us to earth? If so for what purpose? if we were perfect in heaven in perfect kingdom why would God take us out of it?

The nature of man is different between Creedal vs LDS Christianity.

In Creedal Christianity, my newborn nephew has existed for less than a year. He's not a child of God, he's merely a recent creation. Some Christian groups will even say he's a damned sinner due to the Original Sin. There was not much purpose in his creation, except to be a trophy glorifying God. Of course-- I'm saying all this with broad strokes, let me know if you believe differently because there is a huge variety of beliefs here.

In LDS Christianity, my newborn nephew has always existed in some form. His body is obviously really new, but his spirit existed for ages. God the Father is the Father of his spirit. God created this whole Earth so that baby (& everyone else) can get a body, learn, grow, and have joy. God knew in advance that people would sin & screw up, hence Christ volunteered to suffer & die for us all. Christ was the first person to be resurrected: having His spirit re-united with a now perfected physical body. We'll all be too one day.