Are Mormons Christians? (Latter Day Saints)

[Super Kal]

I will listen to you about your relationship when you prove to me that the Jesus Christ that is mentioned in the Book of Mormon, the Pearl of Great Price, and Doctrines and Covenants is the exact same Jesus Christ that is mentioned in the Holy Bible.

I will listen to you about your relationship when you can prove that your own Mormon president is wrong.

I will listen to you about your relationship when you can prove that the past leaders of your church who claimed that they followed a different Jesus, is wrong.

I will listen to you about your relationship when you can prove that Jesus is of the same essence and same substance as the father

I will listen to you about your relationship when you can prove that Jesus is was not a man who attained godhood in pre-existence

I will listen to you about your relationship when you can prove that your church does not approve of polygamy

I will listen to you about your relationship when you prove that Jesus bore the sins of the world when he was on the cross, and not in the garden of Gethsemane

The burden of proof falls upon you to provide sources in Scripture that prove that the Jesus mentioned in Mormonism is the exact same Jesus that john, matthew, paul, Mark, in the rest of the 12 apostles followed, walked with, and ate with.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Give me an example of what is not in scripture that LDS say is new revelation?

Sure. An example of revelation that's not canonize scripture is the "Proclamation on the Family", link below. Given in the 1995, it speaks very directly about how marriage is between a man & a woman, gender is an eternal characteristic, and the importance of having a good environment at home to raise kids. Also the importance of eternal families (LDS Christians believe these bonds are eternal). Now, of course these points were spoken of previously, but reiterating it before the current culture wars is very on point.

LinkL The Family Proclamation

 

[Super Kal]

News flash: the Bible never once says for us to show charity to heretics and false teachers. Paul, in 1 Corinthians 5:11-13, said to not even eat with those who call themselves Christians yet are sexually immoral, covetous, and idolater, a reviler, a drunkard, or an extortioner. He also said to "purge the evil one from you",

John said in 2 John 1:9-11 to "not welcome them in your home, do not even bid them godspeed, for if you bid them godspeed, you become a partaker in their evil deeds"

And I'm not going to go away just because you don't like me. You can put me on ignore all you want, but I'm still going to post in this, because I'm going to say the truth, no matter how offensive it sounds, no matter how much it hurts your feelings, and no matter how upset Wrangler gets, because unlike him or her, I am willing to stand on the scriptures for all truth, and I'm not willing to enable, tolerat,e or condone heresy

 

[Super Kal]

Give me an example of what is not in scripture that LDS say is new revelation?

anything they say that is "new revelation" is 100% wrong, as Jude 1:3 says, the faith was once for all delivered unto the saints.
God revealed everything we need to know through the scriptures, and if there is anything that is said that contradicts what has already been revealed, it is heresy

 

[Wrangler]

and you dont have a relationship with the Jesus Christ found in the Bible.
you have a relationship with a demon that a fallen angel told Joseph Smith to write about

I’m not a LDS, although I have good friends who are.

 

[JohnDB]

Yep, because the Bible just clearly states "And to enter the Pearly Gates you must believe that God's words are confined to these books of the Protestant Bible and then He shut up! Your salvation depends on you professing this!".

<end sarcasm>. Obviously the Bible doesn't say that. And then I watch Protestants adding a bunch of other stuff to the Bible, reciting man-written Creeds, etc. You of course can believe whatever you want-- totally respect your right there and I'm not going to deny your relationship with Christ But I do passionately disagree with your stance here.

It does say its complete....you just refuse to believe it. That's all there is to the matter.

I don't believe creeds or anything above scripture.

Scripture is the basis of our faith. And when it says it's complete...guess what?
I believe scriptures over anyone or anything. Especially some stranger on the internet saying that ALL the church fathers were wrong.

 

[Wrangler]

It does say its complete....you just refuse to believe it. That's all there is to the matter.

Do you believe in religious liberty? Jane Doe has as much a right to be wrong as you.

 

[JohnDB]

I study scriptures.
I know the mechanics, the languages, the people.
I am always amazed at what they say and how they say what they say. The Bible is a miracle.

There is a level of complexity to scriptures that is unreproduceable in today's world.

Although many have tried, they have been unable to reproduce anything similar to the scriptures. There are always conflicts and inconsistencies with any writing that tries to claim to be scriptures but aren't.

Which is part of the reason why I find that the two extra books Mormons follow to be an extreme exercise in hubris and gullibility all at the same time. I'm amazed that people believe the lies that are in direct conflict with scripture.

I'm amazed at how people can follow or believe in such a small god.

All kinds of behaviors shock me....shouldn't but it does.

 

[Super Kal]

Especially some stranger on the internet saying that ALL the church fathers were wrong.

For what it's worth, the Mormons teach that the Jesus that Christianity worships was created by the church councils, so that's why they say that stuff about the church fathers...

but the sad thing is, they don't even read their own stuff to see what garbage is in the Book of Mormon or the Pearl of Great Price. Jane Doe here doesn't even care about what the Mormon president and the their apostles say about it, I've brought that up many times, and she (I'm assuming the person is a she because the name is Jane Doe and not John Doe) just cavalier dismisses it as it as if it just does not exist...

The cognitive dissonance within Mormonism is unbelievably strong. Like Jane Doe here proved that. When actual evidence is shown that what they believe is a cult and heresy, they proverbially stick their heads in the stand and act like you don't exist, or they shoot the messenger, because they're too lazy to actually do any research for themselves... my conversation with Jane Doe above is the perfect example of that.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I study scriptures.
I know the mechanics, the languages, the people.
I am always amazed at what they say and how they say what they say. The Bible is a miracle.

There is a level of complexity to scriptures that is unreproduceable in today's world.

Although many have tried, they have been unable to reproduce anything similar to the scriptures. There are always conflicts and inconsistencies with any writing that tries to claim to be scriptures but aren't.

Which is part of the reason why I find that the two extra books Mormons follow to be an extreme exercise in hubris and gullibility all at the same time. I'm amazed that people believe the lies that are in direct conflict with scripture.

I'm amazed at how people can follow or believe in such a small god.

All kinds of behaviors shock me....shouldn't but it does.

Needless to say we see things very differently.

 

[Super Kal]

Do you believe in religious liberty? Jane Doe has as much a right to be wrong as you.

Jesus Christ didnt believe in religious liberty.
Jesus Christ didn't teach religious liberty.

John 7:24
Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.

1 Corinthians 5:11-13
11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person.
12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside?
13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.”

Galatians 1:6-9
6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel,
7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.
9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

2 Corinthians 11:1-4
1 Oh, that you would bear with me in a little folly—and indeed you do bear with me.
2 For I am jealous for you with godly jealousy. For I have betrothed you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
3 But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
4 For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted—you may well put up with it!

2 John 1:9-11
9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son.
10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him;
11 for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds.

Ephesians 5:11
And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them.

This is what happens when you sacrifice the truth for a lie...
you become no better than the heretic.

 

[Taken]

Are Mormons Christians? (Latter Day Saints)

Long-standing Statement of Belief/Faith…
LDS…
“We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.”

I find THAT single Statement justifiably fulfilling Gods desire for a man to freely BELIEVE that is his true heartful belief….for that individual to BE Sanctified (set apart) unto the Lord God Himself…For God to claim as His “inheritance”…

It is God Himself who set the parameters…that whoseoever heartfully believes IN God and the one God sent…. SO also would God take and keep that individual unto Himself forever.

Do “organized” denominations and appointed church leaders have a long list of quirky teachings and rituals…yes!

Do such things supersede Gods express parameters regarding each individual? No.

John 6:
[28] Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

Inanutshell answer….

John 6:
[29] Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

He…God
Hath sent….Jesus



Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Wrangler]

Jesus Christ didnt believe in religious liberty.
Jesus Christ didn't teach religious liberty.

That’s not true! That’s totally not true! In Matthew 10:14 Jesus taught “And if anyone will not receive you or listen to your words, shake off the dust from your feet when you leave that house or town.”

He did not teach to harass them, berate them, beat them, call them names, take their property or kill them (literally or euphemistically). In fact he warned against doing these things: whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire. Matthew 5:22

Christ also said to pray for and love your enemies. This covers even if you think Jane Doe is your theological enemy!

By you opposing those with different religious opinions THE WAY YOU DO, you reveal yourself to be in danger. Take heed, my friend. I love your passion. Do not let it destroy you.

 

[Wrangler]

Ephesians 5:11
And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them.

It's really pathetic that you equate a Christian denomination who has doctrines you don't agree with that has a long track record of fruitful work to those in the dark not producing fruit. It shows how desperate and weak your argument is.

No comment on LDS being the 4th largest Christian denomination in the USA? I'll pray for you.

 

[TLHKAJ]

No comment on LDS being the 4th largest Christian denomination in the USA? I'll pray for you.

No matter how you put it, if someone believes another gospel, and another Jesus than what actual scripture (in the Bible) teaches, they're not a Christian.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

No matter how you put it, if someone believes another gospel, and another Jesus than what actual scripture (in the Bible) teaches, they're not a Christian.

Here's the Jesus I believe in: He is the divine Son of God, the Alpha and Omega, always and forever. Creator of the world. His mortal body was born of virgin Mary, He lived a mortal life with lots of suffering, and took the world’s sins upon Himself. He died on a cross, rose again on the 3rdday, later rose to heaven, and is coming back again. He is one with the Father, 100% divine. Christ is MY Savior (+everyone else's). He pulled me out of the darkness of depression and self-hatred, when I was bogged down with world induced trauma. He is the only reason I am here so many levels. I love Him, I put my faith in Him. He is my entire world.

If that's "another Gospel" to you, frankly I don't care. I love Christ, I am saved by faith in Him. If you or a million other people choose to deny it or pray to a Gospel of human-gatekeeping or put talk of a million other subjects before Him or taught to hate others from your pulpit, again I don't care. Though, admittedly I do get sick of the re-runs. God alone is each of our Judge.

 

[MatthewG]

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

10 core differences between LDS and Truth

 

[Jane_Doe22]

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

10 core differences between LDS and Truth

If you want to deny MY relationship with Christ, then YOU talk to me about MY relationship with Christ. Not puntting with a YT vid of some other dude preaching half truths and deflections from his pulpit. Neither of us are mindless nor followers of men.

Respond to MY statement of MY faith.

 

[MatthewG]

@Jane_Doe22 youve explained yourself enough…

I haven’t attacked you. Is this your thread?


I have the right to share… even if it’s people exposing mormonisM… you don’t believe in Mormonism you believe in Jesus you said. Okay. Great, .

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

 

[Jane_Doe22]

@Jane_Doe22 youve explained yourself enough…

I haven’t attacked you. Is this your thread?


I have the right to share… even if it’s people exposing mormonisM… you don’t believe in Mormonism you believe in Jesus you said. Okay. Great, .

Everything I shared here is a base requirement to be a "Mormon". You can't be "Mormon" without believing Jesus Christ is your Savior, Son of God, etc. It's the most basic foundation, and too often people in these conversations litterally just ignore it, which is wrong on all fronts.