Are all forgiven?

[horsecamp]

Is one forgiven and saved if they refuse to come under Christ's authority which bring them into relationship with Him?

If you were born in China, you would burn in Hell no matter how good and loving person you were. You would have heard much about Jesus, but you probably wouldn't believe in him because, well, you're a Chinese person living in China. That is the finality of 'only being saved by faith'. That's the God of Protestantism.

Here's some truth: The founder of Protestantism, Martin Luther, hated Jews with a burning passion. He was angry that the Church was serving the Inquisitions on heresies within the Christian communities rather then those dang evil Jews. So he made a theology in which only Christians can be saved, with the added bonus of Christians being able to run free with heresies from there on out which attracted the populace (who also hated the heck out of some Jews).


Belief, faith- these two things are not really different, only that faith is often used more explicitly as being a rejection of doubt. The definition of a creator god is 'the Logos'. or the logic, of all that exists. Christianity extends the definition of the Logos as being 'good'.

So in essence, believing in God is believing in a force of good and being in pursuit of good. In the Old Testament, there was a holiness code that never required once a state of belief, it was works through and through. Jesus dying in the cross is supposed to be one of grace, not limitation, and that is the grave error of the notion that only explicit faith in the Diety of Christ can save.

so thats wht you think is the truth.. why then did Luther have so many friends that were jewish if he hated jews ? And most importantly why was the apple of his eye and his God , a Jewish carpenter ? And why then years latter would there be a very knowledgeable and famous "Jewish person" that wanted to be lutheran pastor .. and became one .. do you think lutheran pastor Richard Wurbrand was such a jerk and your smarter and know more about Luther than him .. FOR THOSE NOT FAMILAR WITH LUTHERAN PASTOR RICHARD WURMBRAND . PERHAPS YOU SHOULD BE..

the writting you base your falty opinion on was luthers responce to Jews who were advocating the teachings of the talmuid .. what luther said was mild in comparason to what they were advocating about christ and christians.

one should remember The talmud contains the teachers of the pharasies and tradition of elders ..
any one who studies the talmuid as luther did will understan why.. Jesus said to he pharasies your father is the devil--------- John8:44

 

[logabe]

This is why belief in God is not necessary for salvation, it is the righteousness of the man that saves him. That is because Jesus' atonement allows us to do good, whereas under the law, we could not.

But someone could come along and put a limitation on that. For example, having to be imputed the righteousness of the Lord before one can do good works, which pretty much renders it impossible for one to be saved no matter how righteous a person they are. Especially if you are a Jew, which incidentally, the founder of the imputed righteousness doctrine despised. That doctrine makes them godless heretics, you see, to the say nothing of atheists and anybody else in this wide world, including your loved ones.
I wonder what Ghandi would make of all that? Oh well, doesn't matter now I suppose if he's in Hell.

People are judged based on the morality of their soul. That is what salvatoin and eternal fire are about, to say otherwise is contradictory to the entire premise of what Christianity commands and teaches, and such claims are merely a consequence of laboring under legal fictions in doctrine.


But universalism, what you put forth at the end, is not something I can agree with. Salvation is not unconditional. The wicked join the wicked, and the righteous join the righteous.

This is why belief in God is not necessary for salvation, it is the righteousness of the man that saves him. That is because Jesus' atonement allows us to do good, whereas under the law, we could not.

But someone could come along and put a limitation on that. For example, having to be imputed the righteousness of the Lord before one can do good works, which pretty much renders it impossible for one to be saved no matter how righteous a person they are. Especially if you are a Jew, which incidentally, the founder of the imputed righteousness doctrine despised. That doctrine makes them godless heretics, you see, to the say nothing of atheists and anybody else in this wide world, including your loved ones.
I wonder what Ghandi would make of all that? Oh well, doesn't matter now I suppose if he's in Hell.

People are judged based on the morality of their soul. That is what salvatoin and eternal fire are about, to say otherwise is contradictory to the entire premise of what Christianity commands and teaches, and such claims are merely a consequence of laboring under legal fictions in doctrine.


But universalism, what you put forth at the end, is not something I can agree with. Salvation is not unconditional. The wicked join the wicked, and the righteous join the righteous.

The Abrahamic Covenant was unconditional and it represents the New Covenant today. Believers are placed
in the bosom of Abraham because they believe Jesus is the Son of God (Gen. 15:5-6). If we think God places
conditions upon our justification, we still have an Old Covenant mindset.

Do we want to do want is right? Sure... but we will do what is right as a Christians because God is shedding
His mercy and grace upon us, and He has given us the gift of faith (Abraham), to walk in good works. In other
words, it is God working in true believers and it is God that will get the Glory.

The question is... does God have the power to save everybody eventually? Numbers 14:16 says,

16 Because the LORD was not able to bring this people into the land
which he sware unto them, therefore he hath slain them in the wilderness.

Isn't that what most of us say today... GOD WAS NOT ABLE.

What a God! What a Plan!

Logabe

 

[veteran]

so thats wht you think is the truth.. why then did Luther have so many friends that were jewish if he hated jews ? And most importantly why was the apple of his eye and his God , a Jewish carpenter ? And why then years latter would there be a very knowledgeable and famous "Jewish person" that wanted to be lutheran pastor .. and became one .. do you think lutheran pastor Richard Wurbrand was such a jerk and your smarter and know more about Luther than him .. FOR THOSE NOT FAMILAR WITH LUTHERAN PASTOR RICHARD WURMBRAND . PERHAPS YOU SHOULD BE..

the writting you base your falty opinion on was luthers responce to Jews who were advocating the teachings of the talmuid .. what luther said was mild in comparason to what they were advocating about christ and christians.

one should remember The talmud contains the teachers of the pharasies and tradition of elders ..
any one who studies the talmuid as luther did will understan why.. Jesus said to he pharasies your father is the devil--------- John8:44

When Martin Luther rebuked the working of Jews he was not speaking of Jews in Christ Jesus, he was speaking of orthodox Judaism which is vehemently against Christ Jesus. And much rebuke of them he did!

 

[aspen]

all are forgiven, but not all are willing to receive forgiveness.

All are saved from Whoopping Cough, but not all have the faith necessary to receive the vaccine.

Such is human nature

 

[logabe]

all are forgiven, but not all are willing to receive forgiveness.

All are saved from Whoopping Cough, but not all have the faith necessary to receive the vaccine.

Such is human nature

all are forgiven, but not all are willing to receive forgiveness.

All are saved from Whoopping Cough, but not all have the faith necessary to receive the vaccine.

Such is human nature

All hasn't been convinced that God is able to do what His Word says He will do... but they will.
Gen. 9:9-10 says,

9 "Now behold, I Myself do establish My covenant with
you, and with your descendants after you;
10 and with every living creature that is with you, the
birds, the cattle, and every beast of the earth with you;
of all that comes out of the ark, even every beast of the
earth.

This was the first covenant that God made with all things He had created. He promised He would
not destroy anymore by the water. Gen. 9:15 says,

15 and I will remember My covenant, which is between
Me and you and every living creature of all flesh ; and
never again shall the water become a flood to destroy
all flesh.

In all, God made five covenants with man. Noah, Abraham, Moses, David, and finally Jesus to show
how He was going to restore His creation through reconciliation (2nd Cor. 5:19).

The covenant that God made in Gen. 9 was to promise all creation that God would not destroy His
creation because of His Word. Gen 8:21 gives us a clue to what God is telling us.

21 The LORD smelled the soothing aroma ; and the LORD
said to Himself, "I will never again curse the ground on
account of man, for the intent of man's heart is evil from
his youth ; and I will never again destroy every living
thing, as I have done.

That was the beginning of God's Restoration of all mankind. Instead of destroying all of us, He will
now restore us back to the pristine life we once had before the fall. For the last 4 thousand years,
God has been putting His plan in place and He is about to roll out His full plan @ the 2nd coming of
Jesus Christ where the Overcomers will establish God's Divine Law upon this earth (Rev. 5:13-14).

13 And every created thing which is in heaven and on the
earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all things
in them, I heard saying, "To Him who sits on the throne,
and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and
dominion forever and ever."
14 And the four living creatures kept saying, " Amen." And
the elders fell down and worshiped.

There it is... John saw every living thing worshipping God, just as God said He would do. Instead of
destroying them... He would restore them through the blood of Jesus Christ (Acts 3:21).

21 whom heaven must receive until the period of restoration
of all things about which God spoke by the mouth of His holy
prophets from ancient time.

There it is again... the restoration of the creation is right upon us... look up for your redemption draweth
nigh.

What a God! What a Plan!

Logabe