Anti-reformers month

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marksman

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why was there a reformation

There was a reformation because the church needed it according to Martin Luther, a catholic priest. He nailed his 95 theses on the door of Wittenberg Cathedral to make his protest. When you hear of a church selling salvation by buying indulgences, you can understand the need for a reformation.
 

marksman

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Can't lump all protestants into the same category. Some of us actually study history.
And studying history can give you a whole new light on things. I decided to embark on a study of the background to the New Testament Church that we find in scripture. not that what was in scripture was wrong but it did not tell the whole story. After spending about two years delving into history books of varying nature and kind, some written as just facts and some who turned it into a story, my eyes were opened as to how much I had missed in my knowledge of the church. It became much more dynamic and relevant and stopped being a theological treatise.
 

theefaith

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There was a reformation because the church needed it according to Martin Luther, a catholic priest. He nailed his 95 theses on the door of Wittenberg Cathedral to make his protest. When you hear of a church selling salvation by buying indulgences, you can understand the need for a reformation.

these are mere accusations and never happened

don’t even know what you’re talking about
Indulgences have zero to do with salvation
 

marksman

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these are mere accusations and never happened

don’t even know what you’re talking about
Indulgences have zero to do with salvation
For someone who seems to know everything, you are very ignorant of the facts.
 

marksman

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For someone who seems to know everything, you are very ignorant of the facts.

(4) An indulgence is valid both in the tribunal of the Church and in the tribunal of God. This means that it not only releases the penitent from his indebtedness to the Church or from the obligation of performing canonical penance, but also from the temporal punishment which he has incurred in the sight of God and which, without the indulgence, he would have to undergo in order to satisfy Divine justice.

To say that an indulgence of so many days or years is granted means that it cancels an amount of purgatorial punishment equivalent to that which would have been remitted, in the sight of God, by the performance of so many days or years of the ancient canonical penance.

Finally, from the nature of the case, it is obvious that one must perform the good works—prayers, alms deeds, visits to a church, etc.—which are prescribed in the granting of an indulgence.

It is therefore of faith (I) that the Church has received from Christ the power to grant indulgences, and (2) that the use of indulgences is salutary for the faithful.

According to Catholic doctrine, therefore, the source of indulgences is constituted by the merits of Christ and the saints. This treasury is left to the keeping, not of the individual Christian, but of the Church. Consequently, to make it available for the faithful, there is required an exercise of authority, which alone can determine in what way, on what terms, and to what extent, indulgences may be granted.
 

marksman

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(4) An indulgence is valid both in the tribunal of the Church and in the tribunal of God. This means that it not only releases the penitent from his indebtedness to the Church or from the obligation of performing canonical penance, but also from the temporal punishment which he has incurred in the sight of God and which, without the indulgence, he would have to undergo in order to satisfy Divine justice.

To say that an indulgence of so many days or years is granted means that it cancels an amount of purgatorial punishment equivalent to that which would have been remitted, in the sight of God, by the performance of so many days or years of the ancient canonical penance.

Finally, from the nature of the case, it is obvious that one must perform the good works—prayers, alms deeds, visits to a church, etc.—which are prescribed in the granting of an indulgence.

It is therefore of faith (I) that the Church has received from Christ the power to grant indulgences, and (2) that the use of indulgences is salutary for the faithful.

According to Catholic doctrine, therefore, the source of indulgences is constituted by the merits of Christ and the saints. This treasury is left to the keeping, not of the individual Christian, but of the Church. Consequently, to make it available for the faithful, there is required an exercise of authority, which alone can determine in what way, on what terms, and to what extent, indulgences may be granted.

As to Luther's 95 theses not happening as thee faith claims here again is the truth.

The Ninety-five Theses or Disputation on the Power and Efficacy of Indulgences[a] is a list of propositions for an academic disputation written in 1517 by Martin Luther, professor of moral theology at the University of Wittenberg, Germany, at the time controlled by the Electorate of Saxony. Retrospectively considered to signal the birth of Protestantism, this document advances Luther's positions against what he saw as the abuse of the practice of clergy selling plenary indulgences, which were certificates believed to reduce the temporal punishment in purgatory for sins committed by the purchasers or their loved ones. In the Theses, Luther claimed that the repentance required by Christ in order for sins to be forgiven involves inner spiritual repentance rather than merely external sacramental confession. He argued that indulgences led Christians to avoid true repentance and sorrow for sin, believing that they could forgo it by obtaining an indulgence. These indulgences, according to Luther, discouraged Christians from giving to the poor and performing other acts of mercy, which he attributed to a belief that indulgence certificates were more spiritually valuable (despite the fact that indulgences were granted for such actions). Though Luther claimed that his positions on indulgences accorded with those of the Pope, the Theses challenge a 14th-century papal bull stating that the pope could use the treasury of merit and the good deeds of past saints to forgive temporal punishment for sins. The Theses are framed as propositions to be argued in debate rather than necessarily representing Luther's opinions, but Luther later clarified his views in the Explanations of the Disputation Concerning the Value of Indulgences.

Luther sent the Theses enclosed with a letter to Albert of Brandenburg, Archbishop of Mainz, on 31 October 1517, a date now considered the start of the Reformation and commemorated annually as Reformation Day. Luther may have also posted the Ninety-five Theses on the door of All Saints' Church and other churches in Wittenberg, in accordance with University custom, on 31 October or in mid-November. The Theses were quickly reprinted and translated, and distributed throughout Germany and Europe. They initiated a pamphlet war with the indulgence preacher Johann Tetzel, which spread Luther's fame even further. Luther's ecclesiastical superiors had him tried for heresy, which culminated in his excommunication in 1521. Though the Theses were the start of the Reformation, Luther did not consider indulgences to be as important as other theological matters which would divide the church, such as justification by faith alone and the bondage of the will. His breakthrough on these issues would come later, and he did not see the writing of the Theses as the point at which his beliefs diverged from those of the Roman Catholic Church.
 

theefaith

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For someone who seems to know everything, you are very ignorant of the facts.

you said;
When you hear of a church selling salvation by buying indulgences,

salvation is by grace and free gift of God
Indulgences are part of God’s Providing the ability to expiate our sins Jn 1:16-17

Indulgences

1st of all these are based on misunderstandings and accusations

Salvation has nothing to do with indulgences nor the forgiveness of sin!

Salvation is God’s mercy to us thru His church by grace thru the sacraments!

An indulgence is a merit of Jesus Christ thru his blood passion and death! Jn 1:16 & 1:29

Cannot sell indulgences
There were indulgences granted to those who supported the building of saint peters, not selling, (donations) but if you chose to make a donation you could get an indulgence, but there were and are many other ways to get them without making a donation! Not a requirement

You did something and got a favorable response, like buying a dozen dognuts and get one free, they may accuse you cannot selling 13 but you actually only sold 12 and gave one free.

Salvation is of grace with mercy and the forgiveness of sins, but the temporal punishment due to sin Christ did not take away, just like he did not take away our sin nature and restore up to the state of innocence in the garden.

Example: a child breaks a window with his baseball, his father forgives him totally, but the child work and earn money to pay for the window, and we must pray, fast, alms, penance, carry our cross and practice Christian virtues to expiate the temporal punishment due to our sins, God provides for everything in His goodness and gives us ample means to do this, and it purifies our souls in this life or if not he also provides a means of purification in the next.

And we can pray for and do penance and gain indulgences for those being purified since they are in the communion of saints like us and those already perfected in heaven!
 

marksman

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you said;
When you hear of a church selling salvation by buying indulgences,

salvation is by grace and free gift of God
Indulgences are part of God’s Providing the ability to expiate our sins Jn 1:16-17

Indulgences

1st of all these are based on misunderstandings and accusations

Salvation has nothing to do with indulgences nor the forgiveness of sin!

Salvation is God’s mercy to us thru His church by grace thru the sacraments!

An indulgence is a merit of Jesus Christ thru his blood passion and death! Jn 1:16 & 1:29

Cannot sell indulgences
There were indulgences granted to those who supported the building of saint peters, not selling, (donations) but if you chose to make a donation you could get an indulgence, but there were and are many other ways to get them without making a donation! Not a requirement

You did something and got a favorable response, like buying a dozen dognuts and get one free, they may accuse you cannot selling 13 but you actually only sold 12 and gave one free.

Salvation is of grace with mercy and the forgiveness of sins, but the temporal punishment due to sin Christ did not take away, just like he did not take away our sin nature and restore up to the state of innocence in the garden.

Example: a child breaks a window with his baseball, his father forgives him totally, but the child work and earn money to pay for the window, and we must pray, fast, alms, penance, carry our cross and practice Christian virtues to expiate the temporal punishment due to our sins, God provides for everything in His goodness and gives us ample means to do this, and it purifies our souls in this life or if not he also provides a means of purification in the next.

And we can pray for and do penance and gain indulgences for those being purified since they are in the communion of saints like us and those already perfected in heaven!

My source for indulgences were catholic teaching on the subject so you will have to take it up with them.
 

theefaith

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Indulgences are sinful lies.

no it is a grace merited by Christ in His passion and death! Jn 1:16-17

the sinful lies are those who say you could buy indulgences or that indulgences get you out of hell or that indulgences have something to do with salvation