An article of faith

[BreadOfLife]

a) The Bible has been edited many times by many people. Do you seriously think that you are reading the original manuscripts that were written in ancient Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek?
b) If the (English) Bible is truth, how come the Catholic denomination doesn't agree with what it says?

And you call my remarks "idiotic" and "unfounded"? You're just jealous because I understand the truth.

You're DODGING the issue, as usual - so I will clarify.

The Synod of Rome (382) is where the canon was first formally identified – ALL 73 (not 66) Books.
- 11 years after that, it was confirmed at the Synod of Hippo (393).
- 4 years later, at the Council (or Synod) of Carthage (397), it was yet again confirmed. The bishops wrote at the end of their document, "But let Church beyond sea (Rome) be consulted about confirming this canon". There were 44 bishops, including St. Augustine who signed the document.
- 7 years later, in 405, in a letter from Pope Innocent I to Exsuperius, Bishop of Toulouse, he reiterated the canon.
- 14 years after that, at the 2nd Council (Synod) of Carthage (419) the canon was again formally confirmed.

The Canon of Scripture was officially closed at the Council of Trent in the 16th century because of the perversions happening within Protestantism and the random editing and deleting of books from the Canon.

NOW - WHY did Luther DELETE the 7 Books (Tobit, Judith, Baruch, Sirach, 1 & 1 Maccabees and Wisdom from the OT, along with portions of Daniel and Esther??
You should KNOW this since YOU adhere to HIS canon.

 

[BreadOfLife]

You are the liar. I wrote, "BreadofLIfe wrote that I wrote "he must have been sent by God to correct and rightly divide truth".

It is a technique of liars to distort what others have said/written. In this case, I wrote that "he must have been sent by God to correct and rightly divide truth from Catholic tradition and false doctrine." He truncated it to alter the meaning.

Clearly he is a deliberate liar! He claims that he cut-and-pasted what I wrote "context intact", yet he didn't include the phrase "from Catholic tradition and false doctrine". See my post #136.

If he doesn't like it - then he shouldn't make deliberately false remarks like that.

No - I didn't lie.

I retained the CONTEXT of what you said.
I merely left out your usual attack on the Catholic Church.

Like I said - if your own words bother you - then stuff a sock in it next time . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

The catholic bible is not taken from the Greek "texts" (the few ) that are accepted and used to create new English Versions.
The Cat bible is Latin, translated, and the translation is something the devil loves.

Especially the Gospel of John, where the Devil helped the Catholic Translation teach that you are "BORN AGAIN" "BY" = WATER.
Not by the Holy Spirit, but by WATER.

This is why the "cult of Mary" is known as as "water cult"......exactly like the JW's., who also are obsessed with water.

I've seen you post this manure many times on this forum - and it's time somebody put you in your ignorant and dishonest place.

Jere us the verse in question - directly from the Latin Vulgate:
John 3:5
respondit Iesus amen amen dico tibi nisi quis renatus fuerit ex aqua et Spiritu non potest introire in regnum Dei

Here it is translated into English:
John 3:5
Jesus answered, Truly, I say to you, unless a man is born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God

Here it is from the Douay-Rhiems Version:
John 3:5
Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Consider yourself Scripturally and linguistically-spanked . . .

 

[Jim B]

You're DODGING the issue, as usual - so I will clarify.

The Synod of Rome (382) is where the canon was first formally identified – ALL 73 (not 66) Books.
- 11 years after that, it was confirmed at the Synod of Hippo (393).
- 4 years later, at the Council (or Synod) of Carthage (397), it was yet again confirmed. The bishops wrote at the end of their document, "But let Church beyond sea (Rome) be consulted about confirming this canon". There were 44 bishops, including St. Augustine who signed the document.
- 7 years later, in 405, in a letter from Pope Innocent I to Exsuperius, Bishop of Toulouse, he reiterated the canon.
- 14 years after that, at the 2nd Council (Synod) of Carthage (419) the canon was again formally confirmed.

The Canon of Scripture was officially closed at the Council of Trent in the 16th century because of the perversions happening within Protestantism and the random editing and deleting of books from the Canon.

NOW - WHY did Luther DELETE the 7 Books (Tobit, Judith, Baruch, Sirach, 1 & 1 Maccabees and Wisdom from the OT, along with portions of Daniel and Esther??
You should KNOW this since YOU adhere to HIS canon.

I don't care how the Catholic denomination arrived at their canon of Scripture. It is a denomination based on falsities.

I accept the Protestant canon because I am a Protestant. Period.

 

[Jim B]

I've seen you post this manure many times on this forum - and it's time somebody put you in your ignorant and dishonest place.

Jere us the verse in question - directly from the Latin Vulgate:
John 3:5
respondit Iesus amen amen dico tibi nisi quis renatus fuerit ex aqua et Spiritu non potest introire in regnum Dei

Here it is translated into English:
John 3:5
Jesus answered, Truly, I say to you, unless a man is born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God

Here it is from the Douay-Rhiems Version:
John 3:5
Jesus answered: Amen, amen I say to thee, unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Consider yourself Scripturally and linguistically-spanked . . .

I've seen you post this manure many times on this forum - and it's time somebody put you in your ignorant and dishonest place. Your Catholic doctrine is based on lies!

 

[Jim B]

No - I didn't lie.

I retained the CONTEXT of what you said.
I merely left out your usual attack on the Catholic Church.

Like I said - if your own words bother you - then stuff a sock in it next time . . .

You wrote, "I retained the CONTEXT of what you said. I merely left out your usual attack on the Catholic Church." In other words, you were (and are) dishonest! "I merely left out!!!" is self-incriminating! It's called "lying by omission".

P.S. When you write nonsense like this -- if your own words bother you - then stuff a sock in it next time . . .' I'm guessing your age to be 12 (or younger).

 

[Jim B]

You're DODGING the issue, as usual - so I will clarify.

The Synod of Rome (382) is where the canon was first formally identified – ALL 73 (not 66) Books.
- 11 years after that, it was confirmed at the Synod of Hippo (393).
- 4 years later, at the Council (or Synod) of Carthage (397), it was yet again confirmed. The bishops wrote at the end of their document, "But let Church beyond sea (Rome) be consulted about confirming this canon". There were 44 bishops, including St. Augustine who signed the document.
- 7 years later, in 405, in a letter from Pope Innocent I to Exsuperius, Bishop of Toulouse, he reiterated the canon.
- 14 years after that, at the 2nd Council (Synod) of Carthage (419) the canon was again formally confirmed.

The Canon of Scripture was officially closed at the Council of Trent in the 16th century because of the perversions happening within Protestantism and the random editing and deleting of books from the Canon.

NOW - WHY did Luther DELETE the 7 Books (Tobit, Judith, Baruch, Sirach, 1 & 1 Maccabees and Wisdom from the OT, along with portions of Daniel and Esther??
You should KNOW this since YOU adhere to HIS canon.

The answer to your question "WHY did Luther DELETE the 7 Books (Tobit, Judith, Baruch, Sirach, 1 & 1 Maccabees and Wisdom from the OT, along with portions of Daniel and Esther??" is because God directed him to delete them!

 

[Saint of God]

Ahhh - then, you'll be happy to know that sexual molestation is alive and well in YOUR quasi-Christian, Trinity-hating sects as well.

What sects are you talking about?

Oh, and the Harlot is the "Great City" - also known in the Bible as "Jerucalem" . . .

No it is not that city in chapter 17...Read it slowly...18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
Jerusalem does not reign over the kings of the earth...

1. She "sits on 7 HILLS" (Rev. 17:9)
- Vatican Hill is NOT one of the 7 hills of Rome: Aventine Hill, Caelian Hill, Capitoline Hill, Esquiline Hill, Palatine Hill, Quirinal Hill, Viminal Hill

- Jerusalem DOES sit on 7 hills:
Mount Scopus
Mount Olivet
Mount of Corruption
Mount Ophel
Original Mount Zion
New Mount Zion
The hill on which the Antonia Fortress was built

Again, you're a dunce to the scripture...seven is the number that represents something that is complete and hills/ mountains represent power/authority...The Vatican is that great city with complete power and authority.

3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
5 And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth.
The vatican is the Whore and the protestants are the harlots...

2. She is called "The Great City" (Rev. 17:18)
- Jerusalem is called the "Great City" - “where also their Lord was crucified” (Rev. 11:8).

That is not the same great city in chapter 17

3. She is "Drunk on the blood of God's Holy people" (Rev 17:6)
- Not ONLY did Jerusalem kill the prophets (Matt. 23:37, Luke 13:34) - she persecuted the Early Church (Gal. 4:9, 2 Cor 11:23-26).

That is the past... Revelation 17 is about now and the future...Jerusalem is not a great city now is It? Is Jerusalem a great cith today? Is Jerusalem a greater city than the Vatican today?

4. "Jerusalem is the "Faithful City"
- Isaiah 1:21 laments, "How the FAITHFUL CITY HAS BECOME A WHORE, she who was full of justice! Righteousness lodged in her, but now murderers."

Isa. 1:21
How is the faithful city become an harlot! it was full of judgment; righteousness lodged in it; but now murderers.

All in the past, Jesus prophesied the fall of jerusalem...
Luke 21:6
As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

Rev. 11:18
Their bodies will lie in the public square of the great city—which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt—where also their Lord was crucified.
(Jesus was crucified in JERUSALEM, Einstein)

Rev. 17:18
And the woman that you saw is the great city that has dominion over the kings of the earth.”

You are conflating two different cities...Jerusalem is not a great city today and has no dominion over the kings of the earth...The Vatican is a great city and it has dominion over the leaders/ kings of the earth...

The ONLY only thing worse than an anti-Catholic is a really, really ignorant one.
Do your HOMEWORK . . .

I already did, you have shown your ignorance of the scripture...Please tell us who is the leader of the city of Jerusalem

 

[BreadOfLife]

I don't care how the Catholic denomination arrived at their canon of Scripture. It is a denomination based on falsities.
I accept the Protestant canon because I am a Protestant. Period.

The answer to your question "WHY did Luther DELETE the 7 Books (Tobit, Judith, Baruch, Sirach, 1 & 1 Maccabees and Wisdom from the OT, along with portions of Daniel and Esther??" is because God directed him to delete them!

Leave it to YOU to say something aas bankrupt as that.
Time for another History Lesson . . .

Not long after the destruction of Jerusalem, of Christ, a group of Rabbis established a rabbinical school in the Jewish city of at Jabneh (or Jamnia). This location became center for Jewish political and religious political thought. Because the Temple had been destroyed in 70 AD – this school led by Akiva redefined certain aspects of Judaism until the Temple could be restored.

One of the things discussed was use of the Greek translation of the Old Testament (the Septuagint) by early Christians. The name, “Septuagint", comes from the number of scholars (70) who translated the Hebrew texts into Greek.

Still with me?
Good – because here is where it gets REALLY interesting . . .

At this gathering, they decided to eject 7 Books (and portions of Esther and Daniel) that they felt were “uninspired”. They provided a new Greek translation because the early Christians were converting the Jews using the Septuagint, which was compiled about 200 years before the birth of Christ. According to historical sources, the rabbinical gathering at Jabneh was not even an "official" council with binding authority to make such a decision. It can be clearly shown that Jesus and the Apostles studied and quoted from these 7 Books. In the New Testament, we see almost 200 references to them.

The main advocate for removing the 7 Deuterocanonical Books was Rabbi Akiba ben Joseph (A.D. 37-137), who was also known for proclaiming that a man named Simon Bar Kokhba was the “real” Messiah during the 2nd Jewish Revolt (circa 132 AD). It was during THIS time that the Jewish Canon was closed. It had still been an OPEN Canon during the life of Christ.

So, YOUR Protestant Father, Luther, chose to go with a POST-Christ, POST-Temple Canon of Scripture that was declared by a FALSE Prophet (Akiva) who proclaimed a FALSE “Christ” (Kokhba). Good job.

This is who YOU have chosen to follow instead of Christ’s Church, on whom He bestowed supreme earthly Authority (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15, John 20:21-23).

Good luck explaining that to God when you are judged . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

What sects are you talking about?
No it is not that city in chapter 17...Read it slowly...18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.
Jerusalem does not reign over the kings of the earth...

And NIETHER does the Church.

Again, you're a dunce to the scripture...seven is the number that represents something that is complete and hills/ mountains represent power/authority...The Vatican is that great city with complete power and authority.
3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
5 And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth.
The vatican is the Whore and the protestants are the harlots...

The Vatican is a "Great City "with "complete power and Authority"??
Apparently - you've NEVER been there. It's the size of several city blosks.
What color is the sky in YOUR world??

Apostate Jerusalem is the Harlot who murdered God's prophets and laid with pagan Rome against the Early Church.

That is not the same great city in chapter 17
That is the past... Revelation 17 is about now and the future...Jerusalem is not a great city now is It? Is Jerusalem a great cith today? Is Jerusalem a greater city than the Vatican today?

And NEITHER is the Vatican.

Jerusalem, however is referred to MULTIPLE times in Scripture - as I have shown you - as the "Great City".

All in the past, Jesus prophesied the fall of jerusalem...
Luke 21:6
As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

You are conflating two different cities...Jerusalem is not a great city today and has no dominion over the kings of the earth...The Vatican is a great city and it has dominion over the leaders/ kings of the earth...

I already did, you have shown your ignorance of the scripture...Please tell us who is the leader of the city of Jerusalem

And you keep denying that Jerusalem was the BIBLICAL "Great City and inventing the myth that the Vatican "rules the earth". What a completely idiotic argument.

Denial and invention . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

I've seen you post this manure many times on this forum - and it's time somebody put you in your ignorant and dishonest place. Your Catholic doctrine is based on lies!

And yet you offered ZERO refutation for what I posted about @Behold's FALSE claim regarding the Catholic translation of John 3:5.

Another pathetic response . . .

 

[Saint of God]

And NIETHER does the Church.

What church are you referring to? God does not have a church in the Vatican

The Vatican is a "Great City "with "complete power and Authority"??
Apparently - you've NEVER been there. It's the size of several city blosks.
What color is the sky in YOUR world??

Great is not referring to size in the passage silly, it is referring to power.

Apostate Jerusalem is the Harlot who murdered God's prophets and laid with pagan Rome against the Early Church.

There is one church. It is neither early nor late. It is the church of God. Jerusalem is a desolate city in the eyes of God now, not a great city.
Jeremiah 44:6
Wherefore my fury and mine anger was poured forth, and was kindled in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem; and they are wasted and desolate, as at this day.
Ezekiel 12:19
And say unto the people of the land, Thus saith the Lord God of the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and of the land of Israel; They shall eat their bread with carefulness, and drink their water with astonishment, that her land may be desolate from all that is therein, because of the violence of all them that dwell therein.

And NEITHER is the Vatican.

The Vatican is an independent state. It has great power... The city of Jerusalem was burnt to the ground. Just as Jesus prophesied. It is not the great city spoken of in Rev 17. Do world leaders bow to the leader of Jerusalem? yes or No? Do world leaders bow to the leader of the Vatican? Yes or No?

Jerusalem, however is referred to MULTIPLE times in Scripture - as I have shown you - as the "Great City".

And you keep denying that Jerusalem was the BIBLICAL "Great City and inventing the myth that the Vatican "rules the earth". What a completely idiotic argument.

Denial and invention . . .

You are a liar. Where did I deny that Jerusalem was the BIBLICAL "Great City. I said it is not the great city in Rev 17. Rev 17 showed things of the future. We are living in the times that was spoken about back then. If you are saying Jerusalem is that Great city you have to back your claim by showing world leaders bowing to the leader of Jerusalem. World leaders bow to the pope.

15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
All the RCC churches are those peoples and multitudes and nations and tongues... Show me Jerusalem having power over peoples and multitudes and nations and tongues. That little Vatican city has control over peoples and multitudes and nations and tongues as we speak. Vatican is the whore.

 

[Saint of God]

Leave it to YOU to say something aas bankrupt as that.
Time for another History Lesson . . .

Not long after the destruction of Jerusalem, of Christ, a group of Rabbis established a rabbinical school in the Jewish city of at Jabneh (or Jamnia). This location became center for Jewish political and religious political thought. Because the Temple had been destroyed in 70 AD – this school led by Akiva redefined certain aspects of Judaism until the Temple could be restored.

One of the things discussed was use of the Greek translation of the Old Testament (the Septuagint) by early Christians. The name, “Septuagint", comes from the number of scholars (70) who translated the Hebrew texts into Greek.

Still with me?
Good – because here is where it gets REALLY interesting . . .

At this gathering, they decided to eject 7 Books (and portions of Esther and Daniel) that they felt were “uninspired”. They provided a new Greek translation because the early Christians were converting the Jews using the Septuagint, which was compiled about 200 years before the birth of Christ. According to historical sources, the rabbinical gathering at Jabneh was not even an "official" council with binding authority to make such a decision. It can be clearly shown that Jesus and the Apostles studied and quoted from these 7 Books. In the New Testament, we see almost 200 references to them.

The main advocate for removing the 7 Deuterocanonical Books was Rabbi Akiba ben Joseph (A.D. 37-137), who was also known for proclaiming that a man named Simon Bar Kokhba was the “real” Messiah during the 2nd Jewish Revolt (circa 132 AD). It was during THIS time that the Jewish Canon was closed. It had still been an OPEN Canon during the life of Christ.

So, YOUR Protestant Father, Luther, chose to go with a POST-Christ, POST-Temple Canon of Scripture that was declared by a FALSE Prophet (Akiva) who proclaimed a FALSE “Christ” (Kokhba). Good job.

This is who YOU have chosen to follow instead of Christ’s Church, on whom He bestowed supreme earthly Authority (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18:15-18, Luke 10:16, John 16:12-15, John 20:21-23).

Good luck explaining that to God when you are judged . . .

And none of those were followers of Jesus. You are both cut from the same cloth...

 

[Philip James]

The Vatican is a great city and it has dominion over the leaders/ kings of the earth.

I just about spit out my coffee laughing when i read this lol

Think maybe we need a knee slappers thread..

:


Christ is risen!
Alleluia!

 

[Saint of God]

I just about spit out my coffee laughing when i read this lol

Think maybe we need a knee slappers thread..

:


Christ is risen!
Alleluia!

Why are you laughing at things you should be crying about?

 

[Philip James]

Why are you laughing at things you should be crying about?

Hello SoG,

If you think the Vatican has dominion over the kings of the Earth, you're living in fantasyland..

Now New York on the other hand...

Pax et Bonum

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!

 

[Brakelite]

there is a difference between the Bible and the Bible alone!

a difference between the Bible alone as only authority and the authority of the apostles in the Bible!

the Bible is the inspired word of God all not just 66 books

but nowhere does it say Bible alone
Or that divine revelation or the word of God is limited to the Bible

Actually, yes it does.
Read the following in context of your own church that demands it's members seek God through the meditation of the dead.
KJV Isaiah 8:19-20
19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?
20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

 

[Saint of God]

Hello SoG,

If you think the Vatican has dominion over the kings of the Earth, you're living in fantasyland..

Now New York on the other hand...

Pax et Bonum

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!

I have explained that the leaders of the world bow down to the Pope, who is the leader of the Vatican city. Please show who in new york the leaders of the world bow down to.

 

[Saint of God]

Actually, yes it does.
Read the following in context of your own church that demands it's members seek God through the meditation of the dead.
KJV Isaiah 8:19-20
19 And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?
20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

It says "seek their God" not "seek God through the meditation of the dead"

 

[Philip James]

I have explained that the leaders of the world bow down to the Pope, who is the leader of the Vatican city. Please show who in new york the leaders of the world bow down to.