AN ANALYSIS OF GOD'S MISSION OF SALVATION

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Grailhunter

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But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8

For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 3:16-18

This is a discussion and I am not looking to be critical of what others believe. I will be asking questions as in….What do you think or believe and feel free to make statements. Free exchange of ideas and beliefs.

We start here….God loves us….
But why did He wait until then to initiate the salvation of mankind?

God loves while we were yet sinners? I am saying there is change here. In the OT God seemed to have no tolerance for sin or sinners. And no real possibility of salvation. Am I right or wrong? What do you think?
 

quietthinker

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But why did He wait until then to initiate the salvation of mankind?

God loves while we were yet sinners? I am saying there is change here. In the OT God seemed to have no tolerance for sin or sinners. And no real possibility of salvation. Am I right or wrong? What do you think?
Did he wait? or is our perception skewed?

Ephesians 1:4-6
Before the creation of the world, he chose us through Christ to be holy and perfect in his presence. 5 Because of his love he had already decided to adopt us through Jesus Christ. He freely chose to do this so that the kindness  he had given us in his dear Son would be praised and given glory.

Galations 4:4-5
But when the set time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, to redeem those under the law, that we might receive adoption to sonship. Because you are his sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, “Abba, Father.”
 

JunChosen

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We start here….God loves us….
But why did He wait until then to initiate the salvation of mankind
?
Did God really wait???

We've learned from Scripture all that dwell upon the earth in eternity past shall worship Him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. (Revelation 13:8}.

To God Be The Glory
 

Grailhunter

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Did God really wait???

We've learned from Scripture all that dwell upon the earth in eternity past shall worship Him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. (Revelation 13:8}.

To God Be The Glory

So are you saying that this could not have happened a little before or a little after Exodus?
What do you think?
 

JunChosen

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So are you saying that this could not have happened a little before or a little after Exodus?
What do you think?
I've already given you my thoughts. The efficacy
of the cross goes back all the way before the foundation (creation) of the world!!

Do you always answer a question with another question?

To God Be The Glory
 
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Grailhunter

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I've already given you my thoughts. The efficacy
of the cross goes back all the way before the foundation (creation) of the world!!

Do you always answer a question with another question?

To God Be The Glory

I did not ask if it was always the plan....let me cut and paste it....
So are you saying that this could not have happened a little before or a little after Exodus?
In other words Christ born and his ministry around Exodus? I am asking why you think He waited so long?
Not that there is a definite answer...
 

Grailhunter

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So we move on……
King Herod dies in March or April of 4 BC. His historical successors and other events anchor this date.

What this means is that Christ had to be born before this for the story of the slaughter of innocents and the Magi to happen. Maybe a year or two before 4 BC

This also mean our calendar….The Gregorian calendar is up to six years off because year 1 was suppose to coincide with Christ’s birth.

Any thoughts on this?
 

Jay Ross

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So we move on……
King Herod dies in March or April of 4 BC. His historical successors and other events anchor this date.

What this means is that Christ had to be born before this for the story of the slaughter of innocents and the Magi to happen. Maybe a year or two before 4 BC

This also mean our calendar….The Gregorian calendar is up to six years off because year 1 was suppose to coincide with Christ’s birth.

Any thoughts on this?

From the time that Christ was born until He was presented in the Temple was only around 45 or so days.

The fact that Herod has children under the age of two killed in Bethlehem does not mean that Christ was round two years of age when Joseph was warned to leave Bethlehem and travelled down to Egypt before the killing of young children at the direction of Herod took place.

Below with scriptural references is my understanding of the chronological events surrounding the birth of Christ: -

I have found the following breakdown of the early life of Christ, helps in putting the story in an understandable order for me to read. Perhaps this is of some use to others: -

Introduction to the story of Christ: -Matthew 1:1-17, Mark 1:1, Luke 1:1-4, John 1:1-5
Gabriel’s prophetic declaration of John the Baptist’s birth to Zechariah in the temple: - Luke 1:5-25
Mary hears the news from the angel Gabriel that she is to conceive a child: - Luke 1:26-38
Mary visits Elisabeth: - Luke 1:39-56
Joseph is told of the reason for Mary’s pregnancy: - Matt 1:18-25a
Joseph takes Mary with him to Bethlehem.: - Luke 2:1-5
Jesus is born: - Luke 2:6-7

Angles tell shepherds out in the field of the birth of Christ: - Luke 2:8-14
The shepherds go to Bethlehem to see Jesus: - Luke 2:15-20
Jesus is circumcised: - Luke 2:21[1]
Jesus is named: - Matt 1:25b
The wise men visit Jesus: - Matt 2:1-12

Joseph is warned in a dream to go to Egypt: -Matt 2:13-15
Herod has infants under two years of age killed in Bethlehem: -Matt 2:16-18
After Herod dies, Joseph returned to Galilee and dwells in Nazareth: -Matt 2:19-23

Jesus taken to Jerusalem and presented to the Lord: - Luke 2:22-24
Simeon takes Jesus in his arms and prophecies: - Luke 2:25-34
Anna comes to the temple and speak about the redemption of Jerusalem: - Luke 2:36-38
They then return to Nazareth: - Luke 2:39

The story of Christ’s early life occurred over a period of around 45 days according to the law, from the time that Christ was born of Mary until they returned to Nazareth after presenting Christ to God in the Temple in accordance with the Law.




[1] We are not told when Jesus was circumcised, and this event has been placed here for convenience. It could easily have happened after the visit of the wise men or on their journey to Egypt while fleeing Bethlehem because of Herod’s edict to kill every male child under the age of two.
 
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JunChosen

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So we move on……
King Herod dies in March or April of 4 BC. His historical successors and other events anchor this date.


What this means is that Christ had to be born before this for the story of the slaughter of innocents and the Magi to happen. Maybe a year or two before 4 BC

This also mean our calendar….The Gregorian calendar is up to six years off because year 1 was suppose to coincide with Christ’s birth.

Any thoughts on this?
Remember, you have to add the two years that when the Magi saw and followed the star. That's the reason King Herod had to slaughter all babies two and under, and the death of Herod is also how we know the exact age of Christ.

To God Be The Glory
 
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Jay Ross

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Remember, you have to add the two years that when the Magi saw and followed the star. That's the reason King Herod had to slaughter all babies two and under, and the death of Herod is also how we know the exact age of Christ.

To God Be The Glory

You are stating an assumption which is not true.

The Maji arrived in Jerusalem at the time Christ was born. A day or so later they arrived in Bethlehem, worshipped the Christ and then returned home another way. Remember that Bethlehem is only a short distance from Jerusalem.

If you read the events surrounding the Birth of Christ in the chronological order that they occurred, then we will see the story very differently.
 

Grailhunter

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From the time that Christ was born until He was presented in the Temple was only around 45 or so days.

The fact that Herod has children under the age of two killed in Bethlehem does not mean that Christ was round two years of age when Joseph was warned to leave Bethlehem and travelled down to Egypt before the killing of young children at the direction of Herod took place.

Below with scriptural references is my understanding of the chronological events surrounding the birth of Christ: -

I have found the following breakdown of the early life of Christ, helps in putting the story in an understandable order for me to read. Perhaps this is of some use to others: -

Introduction to the story of Christ: -Matthew 1:1-17, Mark 1:1, Luke 1:1-4, John 1:1-5
Gabriel’s prophetic declaration of John the Baptist’s birth to Zechariah in the temple: - Luke 1:5-25
Mary hears the news from the angel Gabriel that she is to conceive a child: - Luke 1:26-38
Mary visits Elisabeth: - Luke 1:39-56
Joseph is told of the reason for Mary’s pregnancy: - Matt 1:18-25a
Joseph takes Mary with him to Bethlehem.: - Luke 2:1-5
Jesus is born: - Luke 2:6-7

Angles tell shepherds out in the field of the birth of Christ: - Luke 2:8-14
The shepherds go to Bethlehem to see Jesus: - Luke 2:15-20
Jesus is circumcised: - Luke 2:21[1]
Jesus is named: - Matt 1:25b
The wise men visit Jesus: - Matt 2:1-12

Joseph is warned in a dream to go to Egypt: -Matt 2:13-15
Herod has infants under two years of age killed in Bethlehem: -Matt 2:16-18
After Herod dies, Joseph returned to Galilee and dwells in Nazareth: -Matt 2:19-23

Jesus taken to Jerusalem and presented to the Lord: - Luke 2:22-24
Simeon takes Jesus in his arms and prophecies: - Luke 2:25-34
Anna comes to the temple and speak about the redemption of Jerusalem: - Luke 2:36-38
They then return to Nazareth: - Luke 2:39

The story of Christ’s early life occurred over a period of around 45 days according to the law, from the time that Christ was born of Mary until they returned to Nazareth after presenting Christ to God in the Temple in accordance with the Law.




[1] We are not told when Jesus was circumcised, and this event has been placed here for convenience. It could easily have happened after the visit of the wise men or on their journey to Egypt while fleeing Bethlehem because of Herod’s edict to kill every male child under the age of two.

The census of Quirinius, where Joseph and Miriam go to Bethlehem seems to occur around 6 BC accompanied by a Jewish uprising protesting the same. So you have more than one event going on here....biblical and historical.

In those days Caesar Augustus issued a decree that a census should be taken of the entire Roman world. (This was the first census that took place while Quirinius was governor of Syria.) And everyone went to their own town to register. So Joseph also went up from the town of Nazareth in Galilee to Judea, to Bethlehem the town of David, because he belonged to the house and line of David.
Luke 2:1-4

How accurate is this? It is a long time ago and different people, even scholars believe different things. Since it is in the scriptures we believe it happened. The Gregorian calendar is irrelevant because it is not mentioned in the scriptures. Where it shows up in history with other events of the time period it would appear to place it around 6 BC. So if Christ was born in 6 BC, he probably was a couple years old when King Herod was still alive and ordered the killing of innocences. Still not a definite thing it is more or less a discussion.
 
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Jay Ross

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How accurate is this? It is a long time ago and different people, even scholars believe different things. Since it is in the scriptures we believe it happened. The Gregorian calendar is irrelevant because it is not mentioned in the scriptures. Where it shows up in history with other events of the time period it would appear to place it around 6 BC. So if Christ was born in 6 BC, he probably was a couple years old when King Herod was still alive and ordered the killing of innocences. Still not a definite thing it is more or less a discussion.

An error of two, plus or minus, years, as to when Christ was born is an acceptable error when establishing a timeline from basically a story telling narrative and does not create any real issues for me. We need to allow a floating timeframe for when Christ was born.
 
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David Lamb

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The census of Quirinius, where Joseph and Miriam go to Bethlehem seems to occur around 6 BC accompanied by a Jewish uprising protesting the same. So you have more than one event going on here....biblical and historical.
Joseph and Miriam? Didn't you mean "Joseph and Mary?" As far as I am aware, Miriam as a name is not mentioned in the New Testament.
 

Grailhunter

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Joseph and Miriam? Didn't you mean "Joseph and Mary?" As far as I am aware, Miriam as a name is not mentioned in the New Testament.

Well you got to learn something today. LOL Her name was Miriam, she was Jewish, so Hebrew name, no surprise. But when translated her name went from Miriam to Maria to Mary. For one the name Miriam means rebellion from Moses' sister and Christians did not think that was appropriate for the mother Christ. No fault of yours, a lot of the sources are wrong....LOL I guess they did not consider that Mary is an English word and could not possibly appear in the koiné Greek New Testament. Linguistics are best left to those educated in languages because a lot of sources will give you misinformation.

The same goes for Christ....there is no possibility that Christ's mother would give Him a Greek name that means healer....Yeshua is His name and no one knows where the name Jesus came from in the 17th century. Nothing in the scriptures can be translated to Jesus. For one there are no "Js" in the scriptures. Yob, Yoshua, Yames, Yericho etc....no Js.
 
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David Lamb

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Well you got to learn something today. LOL Her name was Miriam, she was Jewish, so Hebrew name, no surprise. But when translated her name went from Miriam to Maria to Mary. For one the name Miriam means rebellion from Moses' sister and Christians did not think that was appropriate for the mother Christ. No fault of yours, a lot of the sources are wrong....LOL I guess they did not consider that Mary is an English word and could not possibly appear in the koiné Greek New Testament. Linguistics are best left to those educated in languages because a lot of sources will give you misinformation.

The same goes for Christ....there is no possibility that Christ's mother would give Him a Greek name that means healer....Yeshua is His name and no one knows where the name Jesus came from in the 17th century. Nothing in the scriptures can be translated to Jesus. For one there are no "Js" in the scriptures. Yob, Yoshua, Yames, Yericho etc....no Js.
Thank you. I know the names are related. Strong's Concordance has this entry for the word translated "Mary": "3137. Μαρία Maria [mar-ee’-ah]; or Μαριαμ Mariam [mar-ee-am’]; of Hebrew origin [04813]; Maria or Mariam (i.e. Mirjam), the name of six Christian females: — Mary."

However, I suggest that as the English name "Mary" is used to translate the name of the mother of Jesus, in all bible translations I know, it only brings confusion to call her "Miriam." As for calling Jesus "Yeshua", again, that is not what we call Him in English. In the Greek New Testament He is called Iesous, which is fairly close to "Jesus".
 

Grailhunter

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Thank you. I know the names are related. Strong's Concordance has this entry for the word translated "Mary": "3137. Μαρία Maria [mar-ee’-ah]; or Μαριαμ Mariam [mar-ee-am’]; of Hebrew origin [04813]; Maria or Mariam (i.e. Mirjam), the name of six Christian females: — Mary."

However, I suggest that as the English name "Mary" is used to translate the name of the mother of Jesus, in all bible translations I know, it only brings confusion to call her "Miriam." As for calling Jesus "Yeshua", again, that is not what we call Him in English. In the Greek New Testament He is called Iesous, which is fairly close to "Jesus".

I do not perpetuate wrong.....accuracy is important to me and as far as Yahweh and Yeshua, I believe the names of the Gods are important. I am a theologian....long story why....formally educated in 5 countries.

You say...In the Greek New Testament He is called Iesous, which is fairly close to "Jesus".... Not even close, not even possible. No one knows where the word Jesus came from. It just appeared in the 17th century. No Js in the scriptures....the letter J came about in the 14th century and was popularized by William Shakespeare's work and the King James Bible was written in that language format. For humor, if you translate the other direction, Jesus to Greek, the closest words are either Zeus or something to do with a horse.

The thing is there are so much misinformation out there that it is like that famous ball of twine.....
It is the job of theologians to untangle the twine. There is a big difference between the scriptures and the Bible....Bible translations. So many fingers in the Pie, so to speak.

Translations.... sometimes translations are about what people like, rather than what the scriptures say. For example: Magi....means sorcerer or witch, but some of the Christians translating the scriptures did not like that, so they translated Magi to Wise Men. Because they did not know or want to explain why witches were interested in Yeshua.

Bible only people have a quagmire on their hands. In the Old Testament Yahweh's name appeared as YHWH 6,800 times....the fingers in the pie people removed all 6,800 of them and replaced them with the words Lord or God. 6,800 unjustified modifications. In the New Testament the Greek word that represents Yeshua is Iesous....this word is not a name, it is a Greek word that means healer. So that means the names of God the Father and God the Son are not in the scriptures/Bibles and we were never given the name of God the Holy Spirit. Why did they do it? Would Satan want the names of the Trinity in a book that would cover the world? That is why theologians unravel the misinformation. Christian deserve to know the truth.

It starts pretty early in the story.....The "Garden of Eden" is a mistranslation. First off the Garden was east of a place called Eden....Eden is not the name of what people know as a garden. What Adam and Eve was in was called the Paradise of Delights....correct translation. So many things like this.

The Roman Ecumenical Councils came up with the one God formula for the Trinity to settle arguments over the difference between God the Father and God the Son. The Church’s frustrations led them to actually adding verses to certain Bibles to clarify their point and add authority to their false doctrine. The most well known of these forged scriptures is called “the Comma Johanneum Addition.”

The Comma Johanneum as it is referred to, originated as a common literary explanation or formula for the Trinity. It first appeared in the 3rd century in some of the literature which debated the oneness concepts of the Trinity. Even though this formula would become very popular, at the time, very few Church Fathers agreed with it.

At some point this short summary of the Trinity made its way into the margin notes of some of the Bibles that were written after the 5th century. Unlike other examples of popular margin notes that made their way into the scriptures, the Comma Johanneum found its way into the verses of the Bible by way of another avenue. After the 6th century, the Byzantines began to recopy and retranslate the available Greek texts of the New Testament.

The scriptures involved are 1st John 5:7&8. The original scriptures read as follows... (Quoting 6 through 8, so it can be read in context)

“6. This is the one who came by water and blood, Jesus Christ; not with the water only, but with the water and with the blood. 7. And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is the truth. 8. And it is the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.”

This was replaced with what came to be called the Comma Johanneum Addition. Verses 7 and 8 are the added lines.

6: This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7: For there are three that bear record in Heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8: And there are three that bear witness in Earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

As one can see there is no chance that these are simply a different translation, but rather a removal of the scriptures and an insertion of a theological statement for an intended purpose. Of course and again, there is no question that the Trinity exists, just that the Bible does not support the commonly explained one God formula or description of it.

For example:

The McKenzie Bible Dictionary, explains it this way.... “The Trinity of God is defined by the Church as the belief that in God there are three persons who subsist in one nature. The belief as so defined was reached only in the 4th and 5th centuries AD and hence is not explicitly or formally a biblical belief.”

You and other Christians deserve to know the truth. If you do not believe me....no harm, no fowl....turkey.
 

David Lamb

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I do not perpetuate wrong.....accuracy is important to me and as far as Yahweh and Yeshua, I believe the names of the Gods are important. I am a theologian....long story why....formally educated in 5 countries.

You say...In the Greek New Testament He is called Iesous, which is fairly close to "Jesus".... Not even close, not even possible. No one knows where the word Jesus came from. It just appeared in the 17th century. No Js in the scriptures....the letter J came about in the 14th century and was popularized by William Shakespeare's work and the King James Bible was written in that language format. For humor, if you translate the other direction, Jesus to Greek, the closest words are either Zeus or something to do with a horse.

The thing is there are so much misinformation out there that it is like that famous ball of twine.....
It is the job of theologians to untangle the twine. There is a big difference between the scriptures and the Bible....Bible translations. So many fingers in the Pie, so to speak.

Translations.... sometimes translations are about what people like, rather than what the scriptures say. For example: Magi....means sorcerer or witch, but some of the Christians translating the scriptures did not like that, so they translated Magi to Wise Men. Because they did not know or want to explain why witches were interested in Yeshua.

Bible only people have a quagmire on their hands. In the Old Testament Yahweh's name appeared as YHWH 6,800 times....the fingers in the pie people removed all 6,800 of them and replaced them with the words Lord or God. 6,800 unjustified modifications. In the New Testament the Greek word that represents Yeshua is Iesous....this word is not a name, it is a Greek word that means healer. So that means the names of God the Father and God the Son are not in the scriptures/Bibles and we were never given the name of God the Holy Spirit. Why did they do it? Would Satan want the names of the Trinity in a book that would cover the world? That is why theologians unravel the misinformation. Christian deserve to know the truth.

It starts pretty early in the story.....The "Garden of Eden" is a mistranslation. First off the Garden was east of a place called Eden....Eden is not the name of what people know as a garden. What Adam and Eve was in was called the Paradise of Delights....correct translation. So many things like this.

The Roman Ecumenical Councils came up with the one God formula for the Trinity to settle arguments over the difference between God the Father and God the Son. The Church’s frustrations led them to actually adding verses to certain Bibles to clarify their point and add authority to their false doctrine. The most well known of these forged scriptures is called “the Comma Johanneum Addition.”

The Comma Johanneum as it is referred to, originated as a common literary explanation or formula for the Trinity. It first appeared in the 3rd century in some of the literature which debated the oneness concepts of the Trinity. Even though this formula would become very popular, at the time, very few Church Fathers agreed with it.

At some point this short summary of the Trinity made its way into the margin notes of some of the Bibles that were written after the 5th century. Unlike other examples of popular margin notes that made their way into the scriptures, the Comma Johanneum found its way into the verses of the Bible by way of another avenue. After the 6th century, the Byzantines began to recopy and retranslate the available Greek texts of the New Testament.

The scriptures involved are 1st John 5:7&8. The original scriptures read as follows... (Quoting 6 through 8, so it can be read in context)

“6. This is the one who came by water and blood, Jesus Christ; not with the water only, but with the water and with the blood. 7. And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is the truth. 8. And it is the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.”

This was replaced with what came to be called the Comma Johanneum Addition. Verses 7 and 8 are the added lines.

6: This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7: For there are three that bear record in Heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8: And there are three that bear witness in Earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

As one can see there is no chance that these are simply a different translation, but rather a removal of the scriptures and an insertion of a theological statement for an intended purpose. Of course and again, there is no question that the Trinity exists, just that the Bible does not support the commonly explained one God formula or description of it.

For example:

The McKenzie Bible Dictionary, explains it this way.... “The Trinity of God is defined by the Church as the belief that in God there are three persons who subsist in one nature. The belief as so defined was reached only in the 4th and 5th centuries AD and hence is not explicitly or formally a biblical belief.”

You and other Christians deserve to know the truth. If you do not believe me....no harm, no fowl....turkey.
But names do change in translation from one language to another. The original Greek New Testament didn't call Him Yeshua. Not disrespect is intended in English speakers calling Him "Jesus" (though clearly I am not talking about people who use "Jesus" or "Christ" as swear-words!)
 

Grailhunter

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But names do change in translation from one language to another. The original Greek New Testament didn't call Him Yeshua. Not disrespect is intended in English speakers calling Him "Jesus" (though clearly I am not talking about people who use "Jesus" or "Christ" as swear-words!)
Oh ya call Him anything.....I like George.
Persons and places have a tenancy to remain similar among languages.
Two guys speaking different languages meet at a cross roads and one asks the other....Which way to Rome? Well the other guy may only recognize the word Rome and he can point the way.
On the other side of the coin.....It does not hurt socially to call Him Jesus and I do not think that it would make Yeshua mad for you to call Him Jesus.

BUT! The scriptures say that only one name can be called upon for Salvation. What do you think that means? Maybe it would be good to know. Ever wonder what people called Him before the 17th century?
AND....Do you think that Yeshua would appreciate it that you took the time and effort to know His true name?

I do not think it is a matter of Salvation to know and use His true name....it just might be good to know.
For a Theologian it is important to know the specifics.
Good Bless.....Be good and do good.
 

Grailhunter

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Passover is one 24 hour period in the seven day Feast of Unleavened bread. The Jewish Passover occurs each year on the evening of the first full moon after the Spring Equinox.

One thing we know for sure, Christ was not crucified on the day He ate the His Last Supper. But the Jews would have normally been eating the Passover meal on the day Christ was crucified, that would be Friday before dusk.

Over the centuries there have been some confusion on which day the Last Supper occurred, and the circumstances of its occurrence. So before we go on let me explain. Traditionally in this time period, on the eve before the Passover the sacrificial lamb was slain and butchered ritually. The blood was collected ritually and applied to the doorways. (This is the Passover part of the ritual of the plaque of the first born, but this changed…Deuteronomy 16:2-6 The change was that the sacrificial lamb was slain at the doorway of the tabernacle….and then the Temple….This means that in the biblical era the Passover was a gathering of Jews at the Temple…

Then the entire lamb was cooked over a fire and eaten entirely, with unleavened bread. (The sacrifice could be either an unblemished goat or lamb. You can read about this ritual in Exodus chapter 12.) This is not exactly what happened during the evening of the Last Supper. But the Gospels use the term Passover meal to refer to the Last Supper and also reference the Passover lamb being sacrificed on Thursday evening, from there, confusion ensued. Neither the Jews or Christians call the Jewish Passover meal the Last Supper they are two different meals.

The Jewish Passover which lasts around 7 days, that year occurred on Saturday April 8th 30 AD, and started at dusk (As the Full Moon rose) on April 7th. “The Jewish day” starts at dusk. So the Jewish Sabbath and the beginning of Passover occurring on the same day, that year, at dusk. Confusing? Our days shift at midnight…Jewish days shift at dusk…dusk begins the new day.

Computerized astronomical calculations (NASA) shows a full Moon on the evening of April 7th when the Passover began at dusk. So the Passover for that year occurred on the Jewish Sabbath...Saturday but started on Friday at dusk. Two Holy events occurring on the same day. Some refer to this as a High Holy Day, High Day, or High Sabbath for the Jews. John 19:31 The Lambs would have been killed on Friday, the afternoon of the 7th of April. But Christ would not be alive Friday evening. So in this instance there was an honorary Passover meal for Christ that we call the Last Supper because it was Christ’s last supper. As I said, we know that Christ did not eat the Last Supper on the day He was crucified. If we look at Matthew 16:21-25 and Yeshua's disagreement with Peter, we can see that He knew what was going to happen and when.

He was the symbolic and divine sacrificial lamb and He was slain around 3:00 pm on the 7th of April, around the time that the actual sacrificial lambs were being slain. The Passover dinner for Him was held on the evening of the 6th of April...Thursday and they had a sacrificial lamb. The next day, the actual Passover lambs would be slaughtered and eaten on Friday before dusk for the Passover dinners. Christ was the sacrificial lamb for the New Covenant and He was crucified during the day on Friday, about the time the sacrificial lambs for Passover were being killed. So Christ would not be observing the normal processes of the Passover and the Passover meal, and as it turned out, the same was true for the Apostles because they would be in hiding, not sacrificing lambs at the Temple. They may have arranged for food to be brought to them, but they probably were not sacrificing lambs while Christ was being crucified.

The meal that Christ attended was a meal that the Gospels refer to as the Passover meal, a Seder meal, put it was not the actual Jewish Passover meal. As I explained, the next day was the Jewish day of preparation for the Passover...Friday...and the Jewish Passover meal would occur then. This was the day that Christ was slain. Matthew 27:62, Mark 15:42, Luke 23:54, John 19:14, 31, and 42, all confirm that the day that Christ was crucified was on the Day of Preparation, which was Friday, April 7th 30 AD. John 18:28 also proves that early Friday morning, the day of Christ’s crucifixion, when Christ was taken to the Praetorium the Apostles had not eaten the actual Passover meal yet. The morning cock had crowed for Peter John 18:27 So when Christ was before Pilate in the Praetorium the Apostles did not enter because they did not want to be defiled because they wanted to participate in the actual Passover meal before the start of Passover. John 18:28 Another mystery solved....

Why April 7th 30 AD?
The death of Herod is well documented, so is the date of his successors. So in order to include the story of the Herod, the Magi, the Star, and death of the innocences, Christ's birth has to happen before Herod's death. March 12th 4 BC. Now if you go to add this up from Christ's birth to the day of his Crucifixion, keep in mind that you lose 2 years between 1 BC and 1 AD. No year zero, so two years passes between April 1 BC and April 1 AD and they are the same day. So in 30 AD Christ would have been 33 years old, give or take a few months.

We can consider April 3rd 33 AD, but Christ would be 36 years old and since it was said that Christ started His ministry when He was 30 years old, that would make His ministry 6 years long. So odds are, it is 30 AD.

Now the calculation for Passover is based on the cycle of the moon. And goes like this...Passover will occur on the first full moon after the vernal equinox. Most of the time that is in April on our calendar. Then Easter is the next Sunday after that.

So Christ is crucified on Friday April 7th 30 AD and then the Passover starts that evening at dusk along with the Jewish Sabbath. That night has a Full Moon. And this goes along with the double Sabbath tradition, ie Passover falling on the Jewish Sabbath, Saturday. Keep in mind that the Hebrew month always started on the New Moon, so the Passover would “always” occur 15 days later….that does not mean that the Passover would always occur on the Sabbath Saturday, because the new month did not reset the days of the week. (Jewish Sabbath Saturday…different than the Christian Sunday.) Hebrew days of the month vs Gregorian days of the month, there is a confusion factor there, but I will try to explain.

The Lunar Calculator below, shows the Full Moon on the evening of April 7th, 30 AD. This chart is based on our Gregorian calendar, but the first day of the Hebrew month started as usual on the preceding New Moon…which was on March 24th, then 15 days later on Friday, the evening of the 7th ….the Full Moon rises. Below is NASA’s calculation of the lunar cycle for April 7th-8th 30 AD.

lunar calander.JPG
 
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Grailhunter

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To improve our relationship with Yahweh we had to kill His Son? Why?
So what do you think guys?
Most explanations point to a perfect sacrifice.
What do you think?
Does a sacrifices normally include gruesome torture?
Gruesome torture by those that God was trying to save.
Was it the suffering of Christ that saved us?
Was it being nailed to the cross that saved us?
Was it His death that saved us?
Was it His blood that saved us?
Was it His resurrection that saved us?
Was this the plan all along?
 
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