All eschatological views are correct?

[Truth7t7]

These are all real problems for sure, but we should be careful not to lump in those suffering the careless, immature, and elementary nature of children slow to learn, with those who by their craft do wickedness against the word of truth.

As for great apostasy...that is another deep well, including much confusion.

Who are the children slow to learn, those practicing Homosexuality, and in the sin of Adultery?

Who are the crafters that do evil to Gods words, the false teachers and preachers that accept or remain silent on the sin of Homosexuality or Adultery?

Understanding Apostasy, Confusion?

 

[doxley]

The Lake of Fire - Gehenna
The Valley of Hinnom, named Gehenna in Greek, lies just outside the city of Jerusalem. During Jesus’ time, it was the city’s garbage burner. Its fires were kept continually burning (an everlasting lake of fire!) to fully consume all things dumped there. Brimstone used to be added to fuel the incineration. It ensured total destruction.

God's Law to Israel prevented torture of any kind to any creature. I doubt he would condone torture in the future.

 

[ScottA]

Who are the children slow to learn, those practicing Homosexuality, and in the sin of Adultery?

Who are the crafters that do evil to Gods words, the false teachers and preachers that accept or remain silent on the sin of Homosexuality or Adultery?

These are the wheat and the tares, among whom are many lacking understanding for which God is merciful, as a father is with a child. My point was not to be more harsh than God by considering that everyone is the same and should know better. There is no excuse, but there is mercy.

Understanding Apostasy, Confusion?

The idea of "Great Apostasy" is rooted in the teachings of men. The idea of being a mass end times event put off until it is grossly obvious, is against scripture, leaving most unaware. The falling away and the revealing of the man of sin began with Adam, and we all followed--these are all the end times. When each ends, each in his own order, this is the coming of Christ in clouds.

Deep. I warned you ;)

 

[doxley]

These are all real problems for sure, but we should be careful not to lump in those suffering the careless, immature, and elementary nature of children slow to learn, with those who by their craft do wickedness against the word of truth.

who are you directing these things to?

 

[Truth7t7]

This is the reference to day and night in Revelation 14:9-11:

As it has been foretold since the beginning, the evening is darkness (night) and the times of this world. The morning or light or day refers to the kingdom, to eternity.

But the issue is rather that of understanding eternity. We have no business arguing over what is eternal--it is simply defined as "forever." Thus, whether we discuss eternal life, or eternal death or damnation...we have nothing more to offer, unless it is revealed by God, which He has done already by saying "forever." And, He has already defined it, as "without beginning or end."

So, then, if both life and death share the same "forever" definition--why argue? Do those who mean to say that "forever" is different for the dead than it is for the living; that the blessings of perpetual goodness of heaven are not as promised, but are finished as the punishments of the dead are?

It is a good argument!

But this I will say, whether one hears or believes it--God knows; but we speak of opposites, not similarities. Therefore, death is the end, but life in God is the beginning. The one is death, but the other is birth. But unless we consider Enoch...this too only leads to further misunderstanding.

A long eloquent explanation, but missing the direct response in conclusion

Yes Revelation 14:9-11 shows the wicked will suffer eternal conscious torment in the lake of fire

Straight to the point, no mixing of words, very easy to understand

In Love, Jesus Is The Lord

 

[ScottA]

who are you directing these things to?

These are the wheat and the tares, among whom are many lacking understanding for which God is merciful, as a father is with a child. My point was not to be more harsh than God by considering that everyone is the same and should know better. There is no excuse, but there is mercy.

 

[ScottA]

A long eloquent explanation, but missing the direct response in conclusion

Yes Revelation 14:9-11 shows the wicked will suffer eternal conscious torment in the lake of fire

Straight to the point, no mixing of words, very easy to understand

In Love, Jesus Is The Lord

I hear you. But holding our brothers and sisters feet to that fire...? Taking up that measure over semantics...not a good idea.

 

[Truth7t7]

These are the wheat and the tares, among whom are many lacking understanding for which God is merciful, as a father is with a child. My point was not to be more harsh than God by considering that everyone is the same and should know better. There is no excuse, but there is mercy.
The idea of "Great Apostasy" is the teachings o men. The idea of being a mass end times event put off until it is grossly obvious, is against scripture, leaving most unaware. The falling away and the revealing of the man of sin began with Adam, and we all followed--these are all the end times. When each ends, each in his own order, this is the coming of Christ in clouds.

Deep. I warned you ;)

Who are the children slow to learn, the tares?

Do you consider those practicing homosexuality and in the sin of Adultery a tare?

I strongly disagree with your claim the "Great Apostasy" started with Adam

I believe it's taking place currently,as once true to the word denominations have fallen in accepting in silence Practicing Homosexuals and those in active Adultery as saved believers and members of the Church

Just a few mentions of Apostasy

 

[Truth7t7]

I hear you. But holding our brothers and sisters feet to that fire...? Taking up that measure over semantics...not a good idea.

Remaining silent on truth, to appease man's unfounded claims?

Telling the direct truth about a literal hell and lake of fire isnt a dirty word is it?

Proverbs 12:17KJV
17 He that speaketh truth sheweth forth righteousness: but a false witness deceit.

 

[ScottA]

Who are the children slow to learn, the tares?

Do you consider those practicing homosexuality and in the sin of Adultery a tare?

I strongly disagree with your claim the "Great Apostasy" started with Adam

I believe it's taking place currently,as once true to the word denominations have fallen in accepting in silence Practicing Homosexuals and those in active Adultery as saved believers and members of the Church

Just a few mentions of Apostasy

Some of the wheat are slow to learn, free spirited children, and immature. In that child-like ignorance, will strike up an argument--as children do. Yet, they are not the enemy, and swords would be abuse of power.

I consider those practicing homosexuality, etc. no different than those doing any other sin--they are either lost, or know better but prefer it. Some who are lost don't want to be found. Others want to but don't know it, and others just need some good news.

Your strong disagreement is a good example: If we simply disagree with everything we only see in part...well, I hope you can see the problem with that approach.

 

[ScottA]

Remaining silent on truth, to appease man?

Telling the direct truth about a literal hell and lake of fire isnt a dirty word is it?

Proverbs 12:17KJV
17 He that speaketh truth sheweth forth righteousness: but a false witness deceit.

It is not "a false witness" to be kind to little ones...if they be little.

Rather, speak the truth in love. And spread no pearls to swine once they have begun to squeal. ;)

 

[Truth7t7]

Some of the wheat are slow to learn, free spirited children, and immature. In that child-like ignorance, will strike up an argument--as children do. Yet, they are not the enemy, and swords would be abuse of power.

I consider those practicing homosexuality, etc. no different than those doing any other sin--they are either lost, or know better but prefer it. Some who are lost don't want to be found. Others want to but don't know it, and others just need some good news.

Your strong disagreement is a good example: If we simply disagree with everything we only see in part...well, I hope you can see the problem with that approach.

Direct Question:

Do you consider "practicing" Homosexuals and those living in "the active sin" of Adultery that "claim to be Christians", as saved believers, that are slow to learn?

 

[Truth7t7]

It is not "a false witness" to be kind to little ones...if they be little.

Rather, speak the truth in love. And spread no pearls to swine once they have begun to squeal. ;)

At no time did I suggest or state "False Witness"

To be silent on truth isnt being kind, No Pearl's can be cast to the swine in your take on the matter, sit quiet let's not offend speaking truth, my opinion and observation

Those offensive words, "Hell" "Lake Of Fire" let's remove that from the sermon today? :

In Love, Jesus Is The Lord

 

[ScottA]

Direct Question:

Do you consider "practicing" Homosexuals and those living in "the active sin" of Adultery that "claim to be Christians", as saved believers, that are slow to learn?

Possibly. Some most likely. Paul did not say he put away childish things until he was no longer a child. The reality is, all of us were once ignorant; and if we are no longer babes, we once were, needing milk, not debate.

 

[ScottA]

At no time did I suggest or state "False Witness"

To be silent on truth isnt being kind, No Pearl's can be cast to the swine in your take on the matter, sit quiet let's not offend speaking truth, my opinion and observation

Those offensive words, "Hell" "Lake Of Fire" let's remove that from the sermon today? :

In Love, Jesus Is The Lord

Proverbs 12:17KJV
17 He that speaketh truth sheweth forth righteousness: but a false witness deceit.

But I am good with both--take me to task, fine...but there are also babes among us.

 

[Truth7t7]

But I am good with both--take me to task, fine...but there are also babes among us.

The quoting of scripture was to show that the righteous speak truth, and yes a false witness is deceit as scripture teaches

And it wasn't a projection or suggestion that was Scott bearing false witness as you suggest

 

[ScottA]

The quoting of scripture was to show that the righteous speak truth, and yes a false witness is deceit as scripture teaches

And it wasn't a projection or suggestion that was Scott bearing false witness as you suggest

??

 

[Truth7t7]

??

Your words in post #315 "Take Me To Task, Fine", with the words in bold highlight "False Witness"?

That in my interpretation is suggesting I accused you of being a false witness, and at not time did I or even suggest such

In Love, Jesus Is The Lord

 

[Randy Kluth]

It’s okay. Truly, I’m amazed that even a few could grasp what I was saying.

I don't share this very often, but it is at the heart of my own interpretive system. I learned this from a couple of people.

One, K. Latourette, his History of Christianity, spoke positively of the history of many diverse and contradictory Christian movements, seeing something positive in them all.

And two, G.E. Ladd in his books on eschatology was so very fair with stating every position that you could actually decide for yourself what to believe without any position being put in a bad light.

I've learned to understand that all Christians love the Lord and want the truth to some degree. This doesn't mean Christians are not subject to error or to pride--they are. But most positions, historically dignified, do have some elements of truth that the Christians hang their hat on.

So when I try to correct a position I think is wrong, I do try to be respectful, and keep this in mind, that we are all looking to please the same Savior and wanting to believe and propagate the truth.

Therefore, several positions in eschatology were able to contribute to my own unique position. I've drawn upon Postrib, Pretrib, as well as Historicism and Preterism. They all have something to offer. I can give them credit without signing onto their entire eschatological system.

In doing this I find myself being charged with holding to systems I don't actually hold to. But such is as it is when your purpose is not so much to defend a school as to defend each and every truth within all of the different schools! :)

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I don't share this very often, but it is at the heart of my own interpretive system. I learned this from a couple of people.

One, K. Latourette, his History of Christianity, spoke positively of the history of many diverse and contradictory Christian movements, seeing something positive in them all.

And two, G.E. Ladd in his books on eschatology was so very fair with stating every position that you could actually decide for yourself what to believe without any position being put in a bad light.

I've learned to understand that all Christians love the Lord and want the truth to some degree. This doesn't mean Christians are not subject to error or to pride--they are. But most positions, historically dignified, do have some elements of truth that the Christians hang their hat on.

So when I try to correct a position I think is wrong, I do try to be respectful, and keep this in mind, that we are all looking to please the same Savior and wanting to believe and propagate the truth.

Therefore, several positions in eschatology were able to contribute to my own unique position. I've drawn upon Postrib, Pretrib, as well as Historicism and Preterism. They all have something to offer. I can give them credit without signing onto their entire eschatological system.

In doing this I find myself being charged with holding to systems I don't actually hold to. But such is as it is when your purpose is not so much to defend a school as to defend each and every truth within all of the different schools! :)

And it sometimes works a different way too, although it’s more noted when they are talking personally about their experience, rather than scripture so much. But that’s because they’re trying to put it in words. One man will say, I need a word. Another will say, all my light suddenly disappeared. Another might wonder if God is angry at him for something. Another might say, He has shut out my prayers. Another might say, I’m so thirsty. I myself describe it as, He has put me on a fast in spirit.
So sometimes, they are talking about the same thing and I just don’t realize it at first.

But yes, everyone has a piece. And that makes utter sense. We can’t put the pieces all together while we don’t move as one.

I will look into those two authors. Thanks.