Abraham and his descendants

[heretoeternity]

According to the Bible, Abraham had 2 sons, Ishmael and Isaac...both were promised to be blessed with a lot of descendants...but Isaac was the son of promise...(Ishmael was born a few years earlier as a result of a relationship Abraham had with Hagar, the Egyptian servant...but Abraham loved Ishmael as well, as Isaac...The Bible follows Isaac, and he had two sons Jacob and Esau, twins...the later was the first born and was supposed to have his fathers blessings, but was tricked out of this...so Jacob became the blessed one...he went on to have twelve sons, by about 3 different women...one was Judah, who became the father of the Jews....
Joseph, the youngest was the one the Bible seems to follow, of his time in captivity in Egypt, and later the Israeli nations captivity in that country for 400 years, until Moses brought them out...
My point is, Ishmael and Esau are forefathers of the Arab/Muslim nations, and their lineage goes back to Abraham..why all the hatred between them and the Israelis/Jews???

 

[Dan57]

Islam is based on a false sense of heritage and a false prophet. Its an angry and misguided religion. I disagree with the Islamic interpretation, not only the Isaac-Ishmael factor which sets Islam against Judaism, but the Jacob/ Esau factor which put the promise land in dispute. God gave the land to Abraham, but the waters got muddy after that. In defense of Muslims, the verse below explains the Islamic position;

“And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.” (Gen. 17:8)

Israel (Jacob) was the second son of Isaac; and Isaac was the second son of Abraham. Jews argue that they are the people to whom Jehovah gave Palestine as an everlasting possession, that is because they claim to be the Children of Abraham through Isaac.

But here they ignore Ishmael, the first son of Abraham, and his children. (The Arabs are the Children of Ishmael). Jews deny the right of Ishmael saying that he was the son of a slave woman Hajar, whereas Isaac was the son of a free woman, Sarah. But the Torah clearly states that the firstborn should get double portion of his father’s share, even when his mother has a lower status.


"If a man have two wives, one beloved, and another hated, and they have born him children, both the beloved and the hated; and if the firstborn son be hers that was hated: Then it shall be, when he maketh his sons to inherit that which he hath, that he may not make the son of the beloved firstborn before the son of the hated, which is indeed the firstborn: But he shall acknowledge the son of the hated for the firstborn, by giving him a double portion of all that he hath: for he is the beginning of his strength; the right of the firstborn is his." (Deuteronomy 21: 15-17). So Muslims argue that the simple rule of the Torah states that Ishmael should get his birthright and that Jews have no exclusive right to the Land of Palestine.



Judaism claims these verses as their right to the promised land; "And God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him.And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year" (Genesis 17:19-21). Most Muslims believe that the Jews altered the scriptures and falsely added these verses which defy the law of inheritance. They believe the inheritance always goes to the firstborn, meaning the promise land is theirs. ... And so it goes, thousands of years of fighting.

 

[Julabee Jones]

There is another, almost unseen element to all of this...for it is said, that,

"And not only this; but when Rebecca also had conceived by one, even by our father Isaac; (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the PURPOSE of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth;) It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated." Romans 9:10-13.

We should ask the question, "Why did God love Jacob, but hate Esau?" And the answer is bound up into, and remains to this day, God's eternal purpose.

God, in His foreknowledge and omniscience, was well aware that Jacob could and would be useful the execution of God's purpose, while Esau would only hinder it. For an exercise, note that the term 'predestination' in the New Testament is almost always accompanied with the phrase "God's Purpose", "the purpose of God" and so forth. Here are a few...

"Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own PURPOSE and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel: " 2 Tim 1:9-10

"And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his PURPOSE. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified." Romans 8:28-30


"According to the ETERNAL PURPOSE which he PURPOSED in Christ Jesus our Lord: In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him." Eph 3:11-12

"Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath PURPOSED in himself: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the PURPOSE of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ." Eph 1:9-12

And so then, what is God's eternal purpose?

"For this PURPOSE the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil." 1 John 3:8b

And not only to destroy the works of the devil...but to destroy the very person of the devil,

"Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;" Hebrews 2:14

And finally, to, "...deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage." Heb. 2:15

You can see, from the above, that in many, many ways, perhaps in many different roles, we today, those who know Jesus and are aware of God's purpose, became integral parts of that purpose, that Eternal Purpose which to this motivates to this day, all that God does on this planet.

God Bless you,

I am and remain, in the purpose of God, sincerely yours in Jesus Christ,

Julabee Jones

 

[Trekson]

There is another simpler answer to this dilemma. First, Esau wasn't "tricked" out of his birthright, he sold it and Jacob "bought" it fair and square. God in His fore-knowledge knew that Esau didn't care about it. He wasn't interested in following God's ways. A very important part of the story hasn't been mentioned.

Gen. 25:27-34 - "And the boys grew: and Esau was a cunning hunter, a man of the field; and Jacob was a plain man, dwelling in tents.
28 And Isaac loved Esau, because he did eat of his venison: but Rebekah loved Jacob.
29 And Jacob sod pottage: and Esau came from the field, and he was faint:
30 And Esau said to Jacob, Feed me, I pray thee, with that same red pottage; for I am faint: therefore was his name called Edom.
31 And Jacob said, Sell me this day thy birthright.
32 And Esau said, Behold, I am at the point to die: and what profit shall this birthright do to me?
33 And Jacob said, Swear to me this day; and he sware unto him: and he sold his birthright unto Jacob.
34 Then Jacob gave Esau bread and pottage of lentiles; and he did eat and drink, and rose up, and went his way: thus Esau despised his birthright."

 

[heretoeternity]

Genesis 27 seems to contradict some things about Jacob and Esau..it seems Rebeccah tricked her blind husband Isaac into thinking he was blessing Esau, when in fact he was blessing Jacob, who dressed in goat skins to fool his father...hmmmm...seems a might untruthful don't y'all think?