A response to the false doctrine of eternal conscious torment (ECT)

[face2face]

More insults and all for sharing the truth with you.

Do you find wilful ignorance attractive?
It's a true saying is it not? Sorry I couldn't find a gif.

 

[Patrick1966]

God will be All and in All who have been chosen.

 

[face2face]

How do you understand Acts 15:14

Simon has declared how God at the first visited the Gentiles to take out of them a people for His name.

Not everyone right?

 

[Patrick1966]

Do you find wilful ignorance attractive?
It's a true saying is it not? Sorry I couldn't find a gif.

I guess Paul forgot to mention that Jesus's ransom payment only applies to "the chosen", right? Are you a Calvinist?

 

[face2face]

View attachment 32089

Many are called but few are chosen

I also like Rev 5:9 which is even more specific

And they sang a new song, saying:

“You are worthy to take the scroll
and to open its seals,
because you were slain,
and with your blood you purchased for God
persons from every tribe and language and people and nation.

Not everyone!

 

[Patrick1966]

1 Timothy 2:4-6 who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for ALL which is the testimony given at the proper time.

 

[Patrick1966]

I wish I had known you are a Calvinist before I wasted my time.

 

[face2face]

I guess Paul forgot to mention that Jesus's ransom payment only applies to "the chosen", right? Are you a Calvinist?

You are still resisting Patrick.
Speak to many are called but few are chosen.
God is taking from the Gentiles a people for His Name
He is taking persons from every tribe, language and people who are purchase with the blood of Christ.
You seem to be struggling with these verses
F2F

 

[face2face]

I wish I had known you are a Calvinist before I wasted my time.

I'm not a Calvinist but from your lack of understanding... i think you are wasting your time.

 

[face2face]

1 Timothy 2:4-6 who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for ALL which is the testimony given at the proper time.

Why do you post the condition?

"come to the knowledge of the truth"

Not all do!

 

[face2face]

The reason for a message to be preached...

Luke 24:47

Otherwise why preach it? Who needs repentance? and what of forgiveness?

Ah that's right you believe in the substitutionary atonement.

That will be disappointing.

 

[Patrick1966]

The reason for a message to be preached...

Luke 24:47

Otherwise why preach it? Who needs repentance? and what of forgiveness?

Ah that's right you believe in the substitutionary atonement.

That will be disappointing.

I believe that people face damnation but it's obvious that nobody is damned forever. You don't believe that God is a refiner, in spite of the plethora of scripture that demonstrates that God is, indeed, a refiner.

 

[face2face]

I think I see where your issue is Patrick.

It's an admirable attribute to want to force God to save ALL people but sadly a misguided one.

Romans 8:31 What, then, shall we say in response to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things?

Who is the "US" referring to in this letter?

Is it the Church at Rome? It's Baptised members? Or is it for those who never read this letter and had no intention of seeking out the Christ? Wholesale salvation with no conditions - God is the debtor! He owes salvation to all men!

No that is not truth.

The answer is in Romans 8

28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose

Is this consistent then with Christs teaching?

Matthew 22:14? “Many called... few chosen”

If you say no you are out of step with both Christ and Paul.

Salvation is always on the basis of it being conditioned by men and women's response.

Ultimately John 17:2 applies

since you (God) have given him (Jesus) authority over all flesh, to give eternal life to all whom you have given him.

Not all but there will be many!

F2F

 

[Patrick1966]

Colossians 1:20

New International Version

​

20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.


How is God making peace and reconciling ALL things to himself if he condemns some to an eternity of suffering?

 

[face2face]

Colossians 1:20​

​

New International Version​

​

​

20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.


How is God making peace and reconciling ALL things to himself if he condemns some to an eternity of suffering?

Nothing about saving all people there Patrick - reaching now! God will eventually reconcile all things, but those who arn't go to the grave "dust you are and dust you will remain"

I dont believe in eternal suffering, or immortality of an etheral part of God in man. It's just not taught.

F2F

 

[Patrick1966]

Jesus saves and he doesn't stop saving until ALL are saved.

Luke 15:1-7
15 Now the tax collectors and sinners were all drawing near to hear him. 2 And the Pharisees and the scribes grumbled, saying, “This man receives sinners and eats with them.”

3 So he told them this parable: 4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he has lost one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the open country, and go after the one that is lost, until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and his neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep that was lost.’ 7 Just so, I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance.

Jesus will be able to save ALL and he WILL save all because Jesus is great, Jesus is merciful, Jesus is capable, and Jesus is love.

1 Corinthians 15:24-28
24 Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For “God[c] has put all things in subjection under his feet.” But when it says, “all things are put in subjection,” it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him. 28 When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.

 

[Patrick1966]

Nothing about saving all people there Patrick - reaching now! God will eventually reconcile all things, but those who arn't go to the grave "dust you are and dust you will remain"

I dont believe in eternal suffering, or immortality of an etheral part of God in man. It's just not taught.

F2F

Well, if people who are thrown into the Lake of Fire where there is "weeping and gnashing of teeth" then they are very much alive. Besides, how is God "making peace" with the world if he's killing them or throwing them for eternity into the Lake of Fire?

Damnation is not a false doctrine, but ETERNAL damnation is! To believe in eternal damnation, one has to ignore a mountain of scripture.

 

[face2face]

Jesus saves and he doesn't stop saving until ALL are saved.

Luke 15:1-7
15 Now the tax collectors and sinners were all drawing near to hear him. 2 And the Pharisees and the scribes grumbled, saying, “This man receives sinners and eats with them.”

3 So he told them this parable: 4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he has lost one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the open country, and go after the one that is lost, until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and his neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep that was lost.’ 7 Just so, I tell you, there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine righteous persons who need no repentance.

Jesus will be able to save ALL and he WILL save all because Jesus is great, Jesus is merciful, Jesus is capable, and Jesus is love.

1 Corinthians 15:24-28
24 Then comes the end, when he delivers the kingdom to God the Father after destroying every rule and every authority and power. 25 For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death. 27 For “God[c] has put all things in subjection under his feet.” But when it says, “all things are put in subjection,” it is plain that he is excepted who put all things in subjection under him. 28 When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.

True, all who want saving will be saved - the rest Eccl 9:5

For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even their name is forgotten.

Sad but true.

 

[face2face]

Well, if people who are thrown into the Lake of Fire where there is "weeping and gnashing of teeth" then they are very much alive. Besides, how is God "making peace" with the world if he's killing them or throwing them for eternity into the Lake of Fire?

Damnation is not a false doctrine, but ETERNAL damnation is! To believe in eternal damnation, one has to ignore a mountain of scripture.

It's figurative language to people being rejected at the judgement. Their end is certain!

Psalm 16:10

For you will not leave my soul (life) among the dead, or allow your holy one to rot in the grave.

Rot in the grave is the rejected's end.

 

[Patrick1966]

As I said, one has to literally ignore a mountain of scripture to believe in eternal damnation and that's exactly what most do.