A heretical teaching dismantled with the help of Paul the Evangelist.

[Illuminator]

LOL how ignorant, Why would I show you something I NEVER CLAIMED…

If you support sola scriptura, you automatically give each individual believer more authority than the historic Church. That's the point of BofL's quote. You claim that for yourself without saying it out loud every time you quote from a Catholic book. And your cheap shots at statues has been explained a million times and its tiresome.

 

[Taken]

If you support sola scriptura, you automatically give each individual believer more authority than the historic Church.

Sola scriptura - in it’s most basic simplistic meaning, is The written words compiled in a book from many books IS the sole trustworthy authority for Anyone (pastors, individuals) to Verify what they Speak or Hear.

Some people further incorporate the word “interpret”, in meaning that “scripture interprets scripture”. In some passages it does, but not all passages.

I look at Scripture as a Book of Knowledge. All True. Examples of what is Acceptable to God for men to Mimic, and what is Not Acceptable to God for men to Mimic. And thereafter, the Knowledge of the Consequences for the choices individual men freely choose to follow and do either/or of what IS or IS NOT acceptable to God.

It not a big secret there ARE some mysterious things in Scripture. Some things Kept Secret, Some things Revealed, Some things remaining not plainly “Understood”.
On the subject of “Understanding”:

* Also not a secret; Any man, Pastors, Philosophers, can group together, can counsel together, can decide the UNDERSTANDING of what Scripture means.

* An individual man, a group of individuals, a group of pastors, a philosopher, whomever, deciding WHAT is the UNDERSTANDING of Scripture; can simply believe that, and IF in an authoritative “position”…
Start their own “church”…
Have an established “church”…
Is a popular well known “philosopher”
In other words, already established as having an “audience” willing to lend their ears to what “they SAY IS”…according to “their Understanding”.

The Catholic Church has repeatedly held councils, and concluded “their Understanding of Scripture”, Teaches their Understanding. Over passage of time, gathers again, counsels again, and teaches their conclusions of Understanding.

Many other religious organizations do the Same thing.

Philosophers do the Same thing.

These UNDERSTANDING “conclusions”, are NOT added INTO the Scriptures.
Rather they are written in a sort of “companion book” and encouraged to be used along side of the Bible.

Scripture itself is clear…
* God gave to Particular men, identified by Name, called Prophets, Gods Words to orally Speak to other men. And such Prophets, to Write Gods words, and to copy Gods words, and to distribute Gods written words, while continuing to Speak Gods words in the ears of children.

* Scripture IS Profitable for the individual who hears Gods words, reads Gods words, trusts Gods words, acts according to Gods words, uses Gods words FOR:
Doctrine, reproof, correction, instruction.

* And the UNDERSTANDING “OF” Gods Words?

BOTTOM LINE…given men, EXPRESSLY By, Through, Of….ONLY God Himself!

Not a big secret, men are impatient, WANT “instant” Understanding of what they Hear.
** Atheists, for example, are well known for the concept …
Prove to me, give me understanding…SO THEN, I can believe.

Not a big secret, Christians vs Muslims, Christians vs Buddhists on the same concept.

Not a big secret, Christians all claim to be under ONE belief IN Christ Jesus, Son of God, sent by God….
YET…denominations, sects, groups of particular Christians are divided by the Same concept….OF having Multiple “Different” UNDERSTANDINGS.

And Not a big secret, SOME Christian denominations openly reveal, teach, encourage, adhere to….the USE of their own Devised “Companion” books…”OF UNDERSTANDING the meaning of Scripture”.

It is YOUR CHOICE, as it is ANY mans CHOICE to freely decide WHO and WHAT to TRUST….and such individual SHOULD KNOW WHY they TRUST the “who or what”.

For myself, I elect-ed to Trust God and the One He sent.

For myself, I elect-ed to Trust Gods spoken, written, copied, distributed, compiled Books, that which reveals Gods Knowledge, Gods acceptable Behaviors, Gods unacceptable Behaviors and Gods consequences for a man choices of Beliefs and Behaviors.

For myself, I elect to Continually ASK God for His Understanding of His Words.

For myself, I elect-ed to Trust God IS FAITHFUL and will PERSONALLY one on one, give to me, who seeks, who asks, HIS UNDERSTANDING of HIS OWN Words.

For myself, I DO NOT elect to carte’ blanch Trust a group of men (whom I do not know), who have counseled together, who have concluded Gods Understanding of His Word, who have complied their conclusions in books outside of Scripture, OR Philosophers’ whose thoughts, Understandings and teachings are complied in books outside of Scripture.

You plainly say, disagreeing with a Catholic on particular topics, amounts to cheap shots.

You plainly say, particular things Catholics “DO” has been explained away.

A Catholic explains, even will reference a Scripture….YET not ONCE does Scripture itself teach to Bow down before a Statue and Pray to the Statue, nor Pray to the Dead, nor call on the Name of the Dead, nor teach humans are naturally born WITHOUT sin, among other things Catholics teach that are unacceptable behavior is Revealed (according to God) IN Scripture.

And further, Implying ancient men calling themselves “Catholic” are due the sole credit for compiling the Bible, is simply another Catholic taught fallacy.
Many men from Hebrews, to the Tribes of Israel, to Jews, to Greeks, to Gentiles, have participated in compiling scrolls, book(s), manuscripts, letters, pros, into several books, into a single book, Titled by whatever name they chose.

Rom 3:23………ALL have sinned.
Gen 9:5….Blood life of man, Must and Shall Die.
Matt 6: 9-13 …Pray “TO” ONLY the Lord God.
1 Tim 2:5…Only ONE God, ONE mediator.
Lev 19:31…DO NOT CALL on the Dead.
Lev 26:1….DO NOT bow down/ pray before statues.

Presuming you or an other has repeatedly explained a Catholics view of performing repetitive rituals for adoring Mary, have not once been revealed IN Scripture as being taught or practiced by ONE Prophet or ONE Apostle or ONE appointed Disciple to DO or Teach to DO.
Same applies to the Repetitive, praying TO Mary, calling ON Mary, Preaching she was without sin, Preaching she is Alive in Heaven, Preaching she is a mediator, Preaching she is the Mother of God, Preaching she is the Queen of Heaven…etc.

Who in scripture practiced and taught others to do such things?
The prophets? Jesus? The Apostles? The Tribes of Israel?
No, that answer has not been answered by ANY Catholic to my recollection.

 

[Taken]

We should ALL study the Scriptures.
However - NOWHERE are we told that we must interpret to the Scriptures foe ourselves and to abandon His Church.

2 Pet. 1:20
“. . . knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone’s own interpretation.”

We should all study scripture you say?
You just attempted a brow beating for me quoting a Scriptural letter, that by your implication was not to be read by me.

Do tell how you study what you think not proper to read?

Not ONCE have I say individuals should interpret Scriptures. So why pretend that is being discussed?

 

[Taken]

YOU struggle with sin as well – as Paul did (Rom. 7:14-25)
The difference is that you're too spiritually arrogant to admit it.

And your refusal to ask for forgiveness will be your downfall . . .

Already know Paul struggled with his SIN as Saul, being pleased for the round up and murders of people for their belief in Christ the Lord Jesus.

You attempting to make some long shot comparison to me is way off kilter, and just another one of your underhanded behaviors to stuff your words in an others mouth.

When are you going to mature and learn to only speak for yourself?

 

[Illuminator]

The Catholic Church has repeatedly held councils, and concluded “their Understanding of Scripture”, Teaches their Understanding. Over passage of time, gathers again, counsels again, and teaches their conclusions of Understanding.

Most of the time, councils are convened to refute challenging heresies.




. THE DIVINITY OR GODHOOD OF CHRIST WAS ONLY FINALIZED IN 325,
AND THE FULL DOCTRINE OF THE TRINITY IN 381.
THE DOGMA OF THE TWO NATURES OF CHRIST (GOD AND MAN) WAS PROCLAIMED IN 451.
THESE DECISIONS OF GENERAL COUNCILS OF THE CHURCH WERE IN RESPONSE TO CHALLENGING HERESIES. WHY SHOULD PROTESTANTS ACCEPT THESE AUTHORITATIVE VERDICTS, BUT REJECT SIMILAR PROCLAMATIONS ON CHURCH GOVERNMENT, THE EUCHARIST, MARY, PURGATORY, ETC.?

Many other religious organizations do the Same thing.

No, they do not. There has never been a Protestant ecumenical council. It's impossible to organize one. You should concern yourself with the twin evils of contraception and abortion, same sex unions blessed by Protestant pastors, euthanasia, transgenderism where kids can have their genitals mutilated with out parental knowledge, the list goes on. I suggest you pull your head out of 16th century politics for a change.

 

[Illuminator]

Sola scriptura - in it’s most basic simplistic meaning, is The written words compiled in a book from many books IS the sole trustworthy authority for Anyone (pastors, individuals) to Verify what they Speak or Hear.

Some people further incorporate the word “interpret”, in meaning that “scripture interprets scripture”. In some passages it does, but not all passages.

I look at Scripture as a Book of Knowledge. All True. Examples of what is Acceptable to God for men to Mimic, and what is Not Acceptable to God for men to Mimic. And thereafter, the Knowledge of the Consequences for the choices individual men freely choose to follow and do either/or of what IS or IS NOT acceptable to God.

It not a big secret there ARE some mysterious things in Scripture. Some things Kept Secret, Some things Revealed, Some things remaining not plainly “Understood”.
On the subject of “Understanding”:

* Also not a secret; Any man, Pastors, Philosophers, can group together, can counsel together, can decide the UNDERSTANDING of what Scripture means.

* An individual man, a group of individuals, a group of pastors, a philosopher, whomever, deciding WHAT is the UNDERSTANDING of Scripture; can simply believe that, and IF in an authoritative “position”…
Start their own “church”…
Have an established “church”…
Is a popular well known “philosopher”
In other words, already established as having an “audience” willing to lend their ears to what “they SAY IS”…according to “their Understanding”.

The Catholic Church has repeatedly held councils, and concluded “their Understanding of Scripture”, Teaches their Understanding. Over passage of time, gathers again, counsels again, and teaches their conclusions of Understanding.

Many other religious organizations do the Same thing.

Philosophers do the Same thing.

These UNDERSTANDING “conclusions”, are NOT added INTO the Scriptures.
Rather they are written in a sort of “companion book” and encouraged to be used along side of the Bible.

Scripture itself is clear…
* God gave to Particular men, identified by Name, called Prophets, Gods Words to orally Speak to other men. And such Prophets, to Write Gods words, and to copy Gods words, and to distribute Gods written words, while continuing to Speak Gods words in the ears of children.

* Scripture IS Profitable for the individual who hears Gods words, reads Gods words, trusts Gods words, acts according to Gods words, uses Gods words FOR:
Doctrine, reproof, correction, instruction.

* And the UNDERSTANDING “OF” Gods Words?

BOTTOM LINE…given men, EXPRESSLY By, Through, Of….ONLY God Himself!

Not a big secret, men are impatient, WANT “instant” Understanding of what they Hear.
** Atheists, for example, are well known for the concept …
Prove to me, give me understanding…SO THEN, I can believe.

Not a big secret, Christians vs Muslims, Christians vs Buddhists on the same concept.

Not a big secret, Christians all claim to be under ONE belief IN Christ Jesus, Son of God, sent by God….
YET…denominations, sects, groups of particular Christians are divided by the Same concept….OF having Multiple “Different” UNDERSTANDINGS.

And Not a big secret, SOME Christian denominations openly reveal, teach, encourage, adhere to….the USE of their own Devised “Companion” books…”OF UNDERSTANDING the meaning of Scripture”.

It is YOUR CHOICE, as it is ANY mans CHOICE to freely decide WHO and WHAT to TRUST….and such individual SHOULD KNOW WHY they TRUST the “who or what”.

For myself, I elect-ed to Trust God and the One He sent.

For myself, I elect-ed to Trust Gods spoken, written, copied, distributed, compiled Books, that which reveals Gods Knowledge, Gods acceptable Behaviors, Gods unacceptable Behaviors and Gods consequences for a man choices of Beliefs and Behaviors.

For myself, I elect to Continually ASK God for His Understanding of His Words.

For myself, I elect-ed to Trust God IS FAITHFUL and will PERSONALLY one on one, give to me, who seeks, who asks, HIS UNDERSTANDING of HIS OWN Words.

For myself, I DO NOT elect to carte’ blanch Trust a group of men (whom I do not know), who have counseled together, who have concluded Gods Understanding of His Word, who have complied their conclusions in books outside of Scripture, OR Philosophers’ whose thoughts, Understandings and teachings are complied in books outside of Scripture.

You plainly say, disagreeing with a Catholic on particular topics, amounts to cheap shots.

You plainly say, particular things Catholics “DO” has been explained away.

A Catholic explains, even will reference a Scripture….YET not ONCE does Scripture itself teach to Bow down before a Statue and Pray to the Statue, nor Pray to the Dead, nor call on the Name of the Dead, nor teach humans are naturally born WITHOUT sin, among other things Catholics teach that are unacceptable behavior is Revealed (according to God) IN Scripture.

And further, Implying ancient men calling themselves “Catholic” are due the sole credit for compiling the Bible, is simply another Catholic taught fallacy.
Many men from Hebrews, to the Tribes of Israel, to Jews, to Greeks, to Gentiles, have participated in compiling scrolls, book(s), manuscripts, letters, pros, into several books, into a single book, Titled by whatever name they chose.

Rom 3:23………ALL have sinned.
Gen 9:5….Blood life of man, Must and Shall Die.
Matt 6: 9-13 …Pray “TO” ONLY the Lord God.
1 Tim 2:5…Only ONE God, ONE mediator.
Lev 19:31…DO NOT CALL on the Dead.
Lev 26:1….DO NOT bow down/ pray before statues.

Presuming you or an other has repeatedly explained a Catholics view of performing repetitive rituals for adoring Mary, have not once been revealed IN Scripture as being taught or practiced by ONE Prophet or ONE Apostle or ONE appointed Disciple to DO or Teach to DO.
Same applies to the Repetitive, praying TO Mary, calling ON Mary, Preaching she was without sin, Preaching she is Alive in Heaven, Preaching she is a mediator, Preaching she is the Mother of God, Preaching she is the Queen of Heaven…etc.

Who in scripture practiced and taught others to do such things?
The prophets? Jesus? The Apostles? The Tribes of Israel?
No, that answer has not been answered by ANY Catholic to my recollection.

Another hate rant? It's so boring.

 

[Taken]

Another hate rant? It's so boring.

It is VERY interesting “and a common theme” particularly among some persons calling themselves “Catholics” to USE their own ignorance and hate to BE ignorant, BE hateful, BE false accusers, AVOID the Truth and ESCAPE being Accountable for their own actions.

Your own failure to Not have a Biblical basis for your own behavior is only a reflection on you. I am not yoked with you, nor do the things that you Do, and Know Why.

You own inability to Discuss Differences, is your own failure. You resorting to deflection and false accusations, simply puts a spot-light on your failures.

Mode of operation noted.
Failures noted.
No expectation of anything different from you.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Is this coming from a man whose membership is of a Church that splintered off from the first Jewish churches and the Roman Catholic church ? LOL

I am not accountable FOR any group that decides to start their own Church….without my permission, without YOUR permission.

You say 10,s of thousands repeatedly, and was Before during one of your gossip feats, asked to list a mere 100 of these churches YOU repeatedly with derogatorily intent gossip about. And DID YOU list ANY? No. List a mere 100? No. You simply continue to gossip.

Who cares about your repetitive gossiping?
That is simply an unflattering reflection on your own character.

Once again, you DODGE the issue when you're backed into a corner . . .

YOUR fallacy that every individual is to interpret Scripture fr themselves has resulted in tens of thousands of disjointed and perpetually-splintering sects - where doctrine depends on the leader's personal interpretation. When some in his flock disagree - they are free to break off and create yet another set of doctrines for themselves.
This is theological PERVERSION.

Oh, and history shows us that the Catholic Church was there from the beginning with the Apostles.
YOUR Protestant perversions cam MUCH later . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

You think yourself qualified to speak FOR ME.
Think again.

IF you are so ignorant to think yourself qualified to speak for yourself then answer for an other….why bother posting your nonsense for all to SEE how ridiculous you operate….Get a mirror. Pretend in private. For all our sakes, Stop Publicly embarrassing yourself.

And you STILL can't provide a Scriptural defense for your theological invention.

Looks like I hot the nail righ on the HEAD . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

LOL how ignorant, Why would I show you something I NEVER CLAIMED…

You absolutely implied it i post #417.

Learn how to articulate a sentence and people wont assume you're just sticking your foot in your mouth . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

We should all study scripture you say?
You just attempted a brow beating for me quoting a Scriptural letter, that by your implication was not to be read by me.

Do tell how you study what you think not proper to read?

Not ONCE have I say individuals should interpret Scriptures. So why pretend that is being discussed?

And WHO interprets the Scriptures for YOU?

Scripture is to be studied in line wth Church teaching because it is the CHURCH whom Jesus gave ultimate earthly Authority over the people (Matt. 16:18-19, Matt. 18: 15-18, Luke 10-16, John 16:12-15, John 20:21-23)..

 

[BreadOfLife]

Already know Paul struggled with his SIN as Saul, being pleased for the round up and murders of people for their belief in Christ the Lord Jesus.

You attempting to make some long shot comparison to me is way off kilter, and just another one of your underhanded behaviors to stuff your words in an others mouth.

When are you going to mature and learn to only speak for yourself?

Don't you ever tire pf being wrong?
Paul is speaking about himself in the PRESENT TENSE in Romans 7 . . .
Rom. 7:15-24
I do not understand what I DO. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I DO.
And if I I DO what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good.
As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me.
For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out.
For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I KEEP ON DOING.
Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me.

For in my inner being I delight in God’s law;

but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me.

What a wretched man I AM! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death?

Just as he did in 1 Timothy . . .
1 Tim. 1:15
The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I AM the foremost.

Leaen how ro RIGHTLY DIVIDE the Word of God . . .

 

[Taken]

Once again, you DODGE the issue when you're backed into a corner . . .

YOUR fallacy that every individual is to interpret Scripture fr themselves

I never said that.
You fail again trying to speak for others…

 

[Taken]

And you STILL can't provide a Scriptural defense for your theological invention.

Looks like I hot the nail righ on the HEAD . . .

Yawn.
Your self-backpatting routine has run its course.

 

[Taken]

And WHO interprets the Scriptures for YOU?

The same as I have already stated…
JESUS

The same who is Head of His Church…
CHRIST JESUS

The same who offers a Way for some to receive His Understanding…
The Lord God

 

[Taken]

Don't you ever tire pf being wrong?
Paul is speaking about himself in the PRESENT TENSE in Romans 7 . . .
Rom. 7:15-24
I do not understand what I DO. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I DO.
And if I I DO what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good.
As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me.
For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out.
For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I KEEP ON DOING.
Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me.

For in my inner being I delight in God’s law;

but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me.

What a wretched man I AM! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death?

Just as he did in 1 Timothy . . .
1 Tim. 1:15
The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I AM the foremost.

Leaen how ro RIGHTLY DIVIDE the Word of God . . .

Sounds like Paul had the same struggles as you….as you let your MIND have control over your SPIRIT.

Difference is Paul recognized his struggles, and even taught on the subject….
And you do not recognize the difference or know what Paul is talking about.
You actually back-pat yourself when your MIND dreams up wickedness and you ACT on those thoughts.

 

[Illuminator]

It is VERY interesting “and a common theme” particularly among some persons calling themselves “Catholics” to USE their own ignorance and hate to BE ignorant, BE hateful, BE false accusers, AVOID the Truth and ESCAPE being Accountable for their own actions.

Your own failure to Not have a Biblical basis for your own behavior is only a reflection on you. I am not yoked with you, nor do the things that you Do, and Know Why.

You own inability to Discuss Differences, is your own failure. You resorting to deflection and false accusations, simply puts a spot-light on your failures.

Mode of operation noted.
Failures noted.
No expectation of anything different from you.

You don't discuss differences, you attack with fallacies. Your obsession over alleged statue worship is a religious sickness. It's stupid and insulting but you can't stop. That makes you a slave to error.

Do Catholics Worship Statues?

Do Catholics violate God's prohibition of idolatry by worshiping statues? We put this bogus claim to rest once and for all.

www.catholic.com

 

[Taken]

You don't discuss differences, you attack with fallacies. Your obsession over alleged statue worship is a religious sickness. It's stupid and insulting but you can't stop. That makes you a slave to error.

I did not say what you claim.

Your string of accusations based on your own false claim… makes all your accusations applicable to your own self.

Thanks for identifying with the term/label Of A “religious sickness” that compels you to make false claims.

Maybe you should consider praying “TO” the “Great Physician” to heal you, rather than a substitute.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Sounds like Paul had the same struggles as you….as you let your MIND have control over your SPIRIT.

Difference is Paul recognized his struggles, and even taught on the subject….
And you do not recognize the difference or know what Paul is talking about.
You actually back-pat yourself when your MIND dreams up wickedness and you ACT on those thoughts.

Paul was admitting that altho0ugh he has surrendered to Christ that he STILL struggles with sin because of our fallen nature.

The fact that YOU claim to be above this proves your active involvement with sin . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

The same as I have already stated…
JESUS

The same who is Head of His Church…
CHRIST JESUS

The same who offers a Way for some to receive His Understanding…
The Lord God

And I’ve already exposed this as FALSE.

If Jesus is interpreting Scripture for everybody – WHY are there tens of thousands of disjointed and perpetually-splintering Protestant factions who ALL teach different doctrines based on personal interpretations of their leaders?

Does He make mistakes? Even 10 different factions would make Him a liar.

The CHURCH was commanded to teach the world and to Baptize all nations (Matt. 28:19-20).

Show me where the Bible teaches that Jesus interprets the Scriptures FOR you.