A God of Hate

[gpresdo]

Yahweh is the name of the Father whom Jesus referenced, but Elohim is plural and means "Gods". Presumably Yahweh is included in this group, but then who are these other Gods? Who is the "us" in "Let us create man in our image"?

And how is a person fully God, yet fully man? How is a woman impregnated by God? For that matter, how is God different from man? And in what ways are we the same?

I don't pretend to know the answers to any of these questions, but I think there are enough questions here to preclude us from pretending that we know what Jesus meant when he said "I and the Father are one" or "before Abraham was born, I am". And to answer your question, I don't have a definition for God, because I don't understand what God is.

The definition of God...is....ALL.

 

[Wick Stick]

Yahweh is the name of the Father whom Jesus referenced, but Elohim is plural and means "Gods". Presumably Yahweh is included in this group, but then who are these other Gods? Who is the "us" in "Let us create man in our image"?

The answer hides in plain sight within Scripture, but is hard to understand and an explanation was generally reserved to the mature as a mystery.

Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
שְׁמַע יִשְׂרָאֵל יְהוָה אֱלֹהֵינוּ יְהוָה אֶחָד׃

Tell me, what translation would you give to the phrase יְהוָה אֱלֹהֵינוּ ? Don't transliterate the words or give a substitute word (Lord) as the Jews do because they will not pronounce the divine name... give all the words their full meaning.

Now, what translation would you give to יְהוָה אֶחָד ?

And finally, this is a Hebrew parallelism and those two phrases parallel each other, so they must have the same meaning. If you've translated correctly, you should have your answer. :)

 

[Freedm]

Is not the God of the Bible also called the God of the Gods.

Yes, that's a good point. So now we've established that there are multiple gods, but what criteria must one meet to be considered a god? The word used in your example of Deuteronomy 10:17 is Elohim, plural of Eloah. Elohim are defined as:

a. rulers, judges, either as divine representatives at sacred places or as reflecting divine majesty and power
b. divine ones, superhuman beings including God and angels
c. angels

So when Jesus said "I and the father are one", did he mean because he is one of the Elohim? If so, does that mean other Elohim can make the same statement? Can angels make that statement?

 

[Freedm]

The definition of God...is....ALL.

Do you mean, every proton and neutron in my desk, and in my hair and in my bowl of chili, are a part of God? I'm not being facetious here. I actually think you're on the right path. Everything in the universe is made up of energy. Every single thing. Without energy, there's nothing. Energy is life, God is life. Where does the world end and God begin? Or is that question based on an incorrect assumption?

 

[The Learner]

The answer hides in plain sight within Scripture, but is hard to understand and an explanation was generally reserved to the mature as a mystery.

Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
שְׁמַע יִשְׂרָאֵל יְהוָה אֱלֹהֵינוּ יְהוָה אֶחָד׃

Tell me, what translation would you give to the phrase יְהוָה אֱלֹהֵינוּ ? Don't transliterate the words or give a substitute word (Lord) as the Jews do because they will not pronounce the divine name... give all the words their full meaning.

Now, what translation would you give to יְהוָה אֶחָד ?

And finally, this is a Hebrew parallelism and those two phrases parallel each other, so they must have the same meaning. If you've translated correctly, you should have your answer. :)

it is in this text

Hear, O Israel! Adonai is our God, Adonai alone. You shall love Adonai your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. Take to heart these instructions with which I charge you this day. Impress them upon your children. Recite them when you stay at home and when you are away, when you lie down, and when you get up. Bind them as a sign on your hand, and let them serve as a symbol on your forehead; inscribe them on the doorposts of your house, and on your gates. [ JPS translation ]

 

[Matthias]

it is in this text

Hear, O Israel! Adonai is our God, Adonai alone. You shall love Adonai your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. Take to heart these instructions with which I charge you this day. Impress them upon your children. Recite them when you stay at home and when you are away, when you lie down, and when you get up. Bind them as a sign on your hand, and let them serve as a symbol on your forehead; inscribe them on the doorposts of your house, and on your gates. [ JPS translation ]

Jesus is, or should be, our role model. He loves Adonai his God / our God in all of the ways proscribed in the text.

 

[Wick Stick]

it is in this text

Hear, O Israel! Adonai is our God, Adonai alone. You shall love Adonai your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. Take to heart these instructions with which I charge you this day. Impress them upon your children. Recite them when you stay at home and when you are away, when you lie down, and when you get up. Bind them as a sign on your hand, and let them serve as a symbol on your forehead; inscribe them on the doorposts of your house, and on your gates. [ JPS translation ]

Something I find interesting about the divine name ("I AM")... no matter what word you put after it, it grabs it and makes it an attribute or an action of God. For example...

Jehovah Rapha = I AM healing
Jehovah Elohimw =

 

[Freedm]

Something I find interesting about the divine name ("I AM")... no matter what word you put after it, it grabs it and makes it an attribute or an action of God. For example...

Jehovah Rapha = I AM healing
Jehovah Elohimw =

Sounds like you're saying God is everything. Does that then also mean that everything is God?

 

[ChristinaL]

Yahweh is the name of the Father whom Jesus referenced, but Elohim is plural and means "Gods". Presumably Yahweh is included in this group, but then who are these other Gods? Who is the "us" in "Let us create man in our image"?

And how is a person fully God, yet fully man? How is a woman impregnated by God? For that matter, how is God different from man? And in what ways are we the same?

I don't pretend to know the answers to any of these questions, but I think there are enough questions here to preclude us from pretending that we know what Jesus meant when he said "I and the Father are one" or "before Abraham was born, I am". And to answer your question, I don't have a definition for God, because I don't understand what God is.

YHWH, not YahWeh as many believe but more properly pronounced as Ya-Ho-Vah or Ya-Ho-Wah is Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Three united as one in nature, substance and name

How is a person fully God yet fully man? Kind of impossible not to be so when you have God the Father as a literal Father as opposed to just a spiritual one.

When Jesus said Before Abraham was, I AM. He was calling Himself the name of God, YHWH which translates variously as I AM, the Self Existing One or I will be what I will be.

 

[Wick Stick]

Sounds like you're saying God is everything. Does that then also mean that everything is God?

All things come from the source one way or another... though sometimes they get a little twisted before arriving at their destination. But that wasn't the point...

יְהוָה אֱלֹהֵינוּ = I AM your gods
יְהוָה אֶחָד׃ = I AM one

Now, how can both of those statements be true? And also, how can both mean the same thing? The verse gives them in parallel statements, so the pair of them should have a single meaning.

 

[ChristinaL]

All things come from the source one way or another... though sometimes they get a little twisted before arriving at their destination. But that wasn't the point...

יְהוָה אֱלֹהֵינוּ = I AM your gods
יְהוָה אֶחָד׃ = I AM one

Now, how can both of those statements be true? And also, how can both mean the same thing? The verse gives them in parallel statements, so the pair of them should have a single meaning.

They are both true. God is plural, elohim- this is not some Queen-Victoria-we-are-not-amused royal plural as that form of speech didnt exist in biblical times. God is three persons united as one. God is not one person

 

[Matthias]

All things come from the source one way or another... though sometimes they get a little twisted before arriving at their destination. But that wasn't the point...

יְהוָה אֱלֹהֵינוּ = I AM your gods
יְהוָה אֶחָד׃ = I AM one

Now, how can both of those statements be true? And also, how can both mean the same thing? The verse gives them in parallel statements, so the pair of them should have a single meaning.

The translation you offered for consideration is incorrect for both Hebrew phrases. Could you point me to any standard English translation you’re aware of that renders them this way? If you do, I will write a letter to the publisher pointing it out.

 

[ChristinaL]

The translation you offered for consideration is incorrect for both Hebrew phrases. Could you point me to any standard English translation you’re aware of that renders them this way? If you do, I will write a letter to the publisher pointing it out.

Hmm I just put them thru Google translate and the top says Jehovah our God (Ok I know Hebrew has no J)

Bottom says Jehovah is one

 

[Wick Stick]

The translation you offered for consideration is incorrect for both Hebrew phrases. Could you point me to any standard English translation you’re aware of that renders them this way? If you do, I will write a letter to the publisher pointing it out.

Virtually every Bible renders YHVH as "I AM..." just not consistently.

Instead most Bible follow the Jewish practice of neither saying nor translating The Name. That doesn't mean it doesn't HAVE a translation or that it doesn't still mean the same thing everywhere.

 

[Wick Stick]

Hmm I just put them thru Google translate and the top says Jehovah our God (Ok I know Hebrew has no J)

Bottom says Jehovah is one

Google transliterated instead of translating. To be fair, it's normative to transliterate names rather than translate them.

 

[Matthias]

Virtually every Bible renders YHVH as "I AM..." just not consistently.

I haven’t seen any translation do that. YHWH -> LORD is the standard English rendering in most Bibles for the tetragrammaton.

Instead most Bible follow the Jewish practice of neither saying nor translating The Name. That doesn't mean it doesn't HAVE a translation or that it doesn't still mean the same thing everywhere.

It’s the personal, proper, name of the God of Israel.

It’s nothing short of blasphemy to translate, or even insinuate, that the God (Heb. elohim) of Israel ever said or would ever say “I am your Gods.”

 

[Freedm]

They are both true. God is plural, elohim- this is not some Queen-Victoria-we-are-not-amused royal plural as that form of speech didnt exist in biblical times. God is three persons united as one. God is not one person

Are you saying there was no distinction between singular and plural, when this text was written?

 

[Matthias]

Elohim is almost always singular in meaning in the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament), and is always singular in meaning when used in reference to the deity of Abraham, Isaac and Israel.

Elohim is seldom plural in meaning in the Hebrew Bible. When it is plural in meaning it is either used in reference to a group of pagan deities (i.e. idols), a group of angels, or a group of human beings.

 

[Wick Stick]

It’s nothing short of blasphemy to translate, or even insinuate, that the God (Heb. elohim) of Israel ever said or would ever say “I am your Gods.”

 

[Matthias]

Monotheism (“I am your God”) vs. polytheism (”I am your gods”).

The statement ”I am your gods” is never made - by YHWH or anyone else - in scripture.

Wouldn’t you agree?