A God of Hate

[amigo de christo]

Then why did you?

On those feet barney . satan and his many followers take no time off preaching a fast growing world merging religoin
of a false love . WE take no time off exposing that lie and preaching THE TRUE LOVE OF GOD WHICH IS CHRIST JESUS .
That ye MUST BELIEVE in HIM to be saved . This is not a drill barney . ITS AN ALL OUT FINAL HOUR CALL
to hit the trenches and contend for the one true life saving and life changing gospel of CHRIST JESUS .
Cause many wont be making it barney . many now believe a lie that all religoins serve the same god
and all we need is love . ITS WORDLY LOVE barney and it cannot save them .

 

[MatthewG]

I have heard people say, "I can't believe in a God that does this or that." That is completely illogical. God can be any way. Why would he have to be any particular way? Though I wouldn't frame it this way, why couldn't the real God be genocidal and destroy people for any reason including unbelief?

God allowed what was allowed under his authority and directive, whats interesting to note is that he had a plan also to resurrect all those whom were lost which tends to get lost. He allowed what he did allow in promise of the covenant for his Chosen people to have the land which was promised to Abraham, and made his descendants countless as the sand and stars. That old covenant was achieved through Jacob and his descendants. And they gained land by war, but people had to die.

God's promise though was for Israel then and there.

Now human beings make and choose what they do - like Hitler and his doings with his own people and war which was established. God doesn't have part in those things, but he allows freedom of choice.

The israelites didn't have to do as God commanded and sometimes they didn't and they themselves also paid a price, but God had a plan in his mind, to be able to resurrect them.

@the.reverent.atheist - Just wanted to point these things out, God was fair and just in everything he did, and he allowed even the destruction (ruin) of his own people however, there was a plan to resurrect them, those there would be those who would spend time in 'paradise (abrahams bosom), or in the dark parts away from paradise, which was known as the place which was a covering for the dead.

Even Jesus went to preach in this place after his death, after the burial for three days, and then resurrection by God's spirit, on the cross.

Another side note isn't that what Kings do in the realm of this reality - Charge their people to do what they need to do in order to gain more land? It seems now today God has done away with the devil, the beast, the false prophet, and overall has acquired to reconcile the whole world unto himself through His son.

Amazing stuff, all in love and respect, to both parties
Matthew

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Not sure if it has been mentioned. But God did not just destroy them yet they had hope of repenting.

This is what God told Abraham.

Gen 15 16 But in the fourth generation they shall return here, for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete.”

 

[Freedm]

Anyone who believes that it is perfectly reasonable to slaughter people purely for their beliefs is a bigot. Renounce your bigotry and apologize.

I appreciate your detailed OP about the way God slaughtered people. As Christians we shouldn't shy away from this part of history, and this aspect of God. I don't know for sure why God chose the path that he did, but I could throw out a few ideas, none of which would satisfy you.

However, in regards to your "bigot" comment, let's remember what a bigot is. In today's world, the word has come to mean everything bad and evil, and bigotry of any kind is not to be tolerated, but bigotry literally means intolerant, and the truth is we should be intolerant of certain things. God himself is obviously intolerant of evil doers, and so should we be. Should we tolerate and accept evil? No, we shouldn't. That would lead us to the kind of degenerate society that the far left is pushing us towards. We have to fight evil at every turn, and not bow down to it, and not accept it. We have to hate evil, as God hates evil, and we will never renounce nor apologize for our intolerance of it.

 

[Freedm]

Maybe you missed an earlier discussion. I said in the following posting that there have been billions and billions of people who have lived on this planet who never once in their lives had any opportunity at all to even hear about Jesus or the Bible or the Ten Commandments or the Crucifixion:

Fair point, and again, something that we as Christians need to deal with. Our salvation can not be, and is not, dependent on having heard the name Jesus. Paul even told us that those who wandered in the desert, were following Jesus (1 Cor 10:4), yet they wandered a thousand years before Jesus was born. And Peter told us that Jesus redeemed even those souls who had died in the years before the cross (1 Peter 3), so we know that even those who never heard the name Jesus can be, and have been saved.

How is this possible? It's possible because it is not the man Jesus who saves us, but it is the way, the truth and the life. If you follow the way, and love the truth, you will come into life. Even Billy Graham made this point, in a round about way, when he said the following:

Everybody that knows Christ, or love Christ, whether they're conscious of it or not they're members of the body of Christ. And I don't think that we're going to see a great sweeping revival that will turn the whole world to Christ at anytime, I think the apostle James in the first council in Jerusalem answered that when he said that God's purpose for this age is to call out people for his name. And that's what God is doing today. He's calling people out of the world for his name.​

​

Whether they come from the Muslim world, or the Buddhist world or the Christian world or the non believing world, they are members of the body of Christ because they've been called by God. They may not even know the name of Jesus but they know in their heart that they need something that they don't have and they turn to the only light that they have and I think that they're saved and that they're going to be with us in heaven.​

So your point does not hurt the faith, as you think, but only reveals your ignorance of it.

 

[Freedm]

A God who slaughters people simply because they don't believe in him, and who condemns billions to the everlasting fires of hell and damnation just because they don't believe in Jesus is a tyrant. Such a God is not deserving of anyone's worship.

Your notion of what kind of God "deserves" worship is irrelevant, when that same God decides your eternal fate. Having said that, not all Christians believe in the doctrine of eternal torment in hell. Myself, I believe we either have eternal life or eternal death. Death being a state that lacks consciousness, the absence of life. It is the state that people used to end up in, before Christ came and redeemed us. Now we have eternal life, and no longer have to experience death, meaning we move instantly from this life to the next, but all the old testament people actually experienced death, as they "slept in the earth".

 

[Freedm]

Why were unclean people collected throughout the OT, told to be put without the gate in an unclean place?

What is this "without the gate" you speak of?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

What is this "without the gate" you speak of?

My understanding is “without the gate” …this is where those burnt animals bodies were taken without the city to be discarded. It was considered an unclean place. In the Old Testament those unclean were put also without the gate. Put in that unclean place. To me it is significant that Christ also was rejected and put without the city. Discarded by men but not forgotten of God. That this is where He went and was crucified as the scriptures says to prepare a people made clean by his own blood. Those considered truly “unclean”. To me those sick and in need of a physician were all those “unclean” and put without the gate, a people to be prepared by Christ coming to help those who need a physician. Lepers were put without the gate also. Christ ministers to the leper. Paul said “let us go without the camp and bear the reproach of Christ.” —So Jesus also suffered outside the gate in order to sanctify the people through his own blood. Therefore let us go to him outside the camp(where does this tell us Christ is found?) and bear the reproach he endured” (Heb. 13:12–13). It is referred to as “without the camp” also. But to me it is the same as without the gate. Like the beggar Lazarus laid without the gate called beautiful and the dogs crawled in to lick his sores. To me there is symbolism in “without the gate” or “without the camp” where those burnt bodies of sacrificed animals were kept. To me it is also called “the dung heap” where Christ raises up those born anew, lifting them up out of the dung. “Washed” “made clean” by Christ. Searched “without the camp” in the Old Testament and consider what God told them to put without the camp. Those put without the camp in the OT are the ones “sick” He ministered to New Testament.

So the point I was sharing in regard to “a God of Hate” is this. At first read of the Old Testament it sounds like hate …put them without the camp. But to me it was not hate but His separation of a people even then …preparing where Christ would suffer without the gate for those rejected and despised and considered the worst of the “unclean”. God’s foreknowledge of those put without the gate called beautiful are the ones Christ would go without the gate and share in (bear) their burdens. We see images of the heavy cross laid upon his back…where does he go? Without the gate. (It is easy for a man to die for a good man, but who will die for a sinner?) How can a God of Hate be so merciful to send His Son without the gate for those unclean sinners collected without in a place where dead bodies of burnt animals was discarded. I can’t imagine the Love of a God called a God of hate that would hear their cry’s from without the camp and send help for them. His gracious merciful love blows my mind. People won’t agree but I think the whole thing about the Ark is …we think God did not hear the cries of all those shut out and drowning without the Ark …but we miss I think that God did hear their cries without and He (whether we like or not) unsealed a door, opened a way, to save more people than eight. (Or that is my opinion).

 

[Freedm]

My understanding is “without the gate” …this is where those burnt animals bodies were taken without the city to be discarded. It was considered an unclean place. In the Old Testament those unclean were put also without the gate. Put in that unclean place. To me it is significant that Christ also was rejected and put without the city. Discarded by men but not forgotten of God. That this is where He went and was crucified as the scriptures says to prepare a people made clean by his own blood. Those considered truly “unclean”. To me those sick and in need of a physician were all those “unclean” and put without the gate, a people to be prepared by Christ coming to help those who need a physician. Lepers were put without the gate also. Christ ministers to the leper. Paul said “let us go without the camp and bear the reproach of Christ.” —So Jesus also suffered outside the gate in order to sanctify the people through his own blood. Therefore let us go to him outside the camp(where does this tell us Christ is found?) and bear the reproach he endured” (Heb. 13:12–13). It is referred to as “without the camp” also. But to me it is the same as without the gate. Like the beggar Lazarus laid without the gate called beautiful and the dogs crawled in to lick his sores. To me there is symbolism in “without the gate” or “without the camp” where those burnt bodies of sacrificed animals were kept. To me it is also called “the dung heap” where Christ raises up those born anew, lifting them up out of the dung. “Washed” “made clean” by Christ. Searched “without the camp” in the Old Testament and consider what God told them to put without the camp. Those put without the camp in the OT are the ones “sick” He ministered to New Testament.

So the point I was sharing in regard to “a God of Hate” is this. At first read of the Old Testament it sounds like hate …put them without the camp. But to me it was not hate but His separation of a people even then …preparing where Christ would suffer without the gate for those rejected and despised and considered the worst of the “unclean”. God’s foreknowledge of those put without the gate called beautiful are the ones Christ would go without the gate and share in (bear) their burdens. We see images of the heavy cross laid upon his back…where does he go? Without the gate. (It is easy for a man to die for a good man, but who will die for a sinner?) How can a God of Hate be so merciful to send His Son without the gate for those unclean sinners collected without in a place where dead bodies of burnt animals was discarded. I can’t imagine the Love of a God called a God of hate that would hear their cry’s from without the camp and send help for them. His gracious merciful love blows my mind. People won’t agree but I think the whole thing about the Ark is …we think God did not hear the cries of all those shut out and drowning without the Ark …but we miss I think that God did hear their cries without and He (whether we like or not) unsealed a door, opened a way, to save more people than eight. (Or that is my opinion).

Ah. Now it makes sense. I think if you'd used the term "outside the gate" rather than "without the gate" more people would've understood what you were saying.

Interesting thing about those outside the ark, as 1 Peter 3 tells us that Jesus also offered salvation to those people, who were disobedient long ago, during Noah's flood.

After being made alive,[d] he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Ah. Now it makes sense. I think if you'd used the term "outside the gate" rather than "without the gate" more people would've understood what you were saying.

Interesting thing about those outside the ark, as 1 Peter 3 tells us that Jesus also offered salvation to those people, who were disobedient long ago, during Noah's flood.

After being made alive,[d] he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built.

A few things that stand out about the Ark that Noah built. Yes, God gave him the blue print (is that what you would call it) the schematics? Much like God gave the “make these things an image of” not the true thing but an image. but still the ark of the OT is different from the Ark of the New Testament which is Christ. To me the Ark of the OT is much like the burnt sacrifices which could not make perfect. Or how if you fail in one point of the law, you fail in the whole law. The ark of Noah …to me the love of God was not in that ark. The New Testament shows this I think in “if you shut up your bowels of compassion towards your brother, the love of God is not in you.” This was Noah’s ark. Bowels of compassion shut up. If Noah’s Ark was perfect…there would have been no need for another Ark; the Ark of God which is Christ. Those disobedient … what of none is righteous no not one. I don’t know about the eight but without the love of God…for love had not come which is Christ…Christ was absent in the Ark that Noah built. Same with the temple made with hands, an image …we are told God builds His habitation and it’s not the temple man builds with his hands but the one God laid the foundation of which is Christ. The word talks about it was kept shut up…they were kept shut in until He who comes to set the captives free. I still think there was no love nor charity in the ark of the Old Testament and that ark which the love of God was not in and not able to make any perfect…can’t be compared to the Ark of Christ where the love of God did dwell. He who did not shut up his bowels of compassion obedient even unto death. If we want to say the Ark of Noah makes perfect then we can also say the law makes one perfect…but in both He said (Imo) without the Love of God it is impossible.

 

[St. SteVen]

Certainly even a cursory read of the OT allows us to realize the savagery and mass murders by and through the command of the Elohim, or God, precludes any notion of Omnibenevolence.

Oh my...
God as a cosmic tyrant?
Turning our loving heavenly Father into something more akin to a gangster godfather,
making us an offer we can;t refuse. Believe or burn. (spiritual extortion)

 

[St. SteVen]

Anyone who believes that it is perfectly reasonable to slaughter people purely for their beliefs is a bigot. Renounce your bigotry and apologize.

And the Christians respond in sincere chorus:
"His ways are far above our ways, and beyond our understanding.
Who are you, mere mortal to question the Almighty?"

I tend to agree with you on this point. (in your quoted post above)

As a Christian (for lack of a better term) I believe God gave us a conscience to discern right from wrong.
Why would he hold himself to a LOWER standard than he holds us to.

On the front cover of my Bible is the book title: Holy Bible
which I would like to replace with a label that reads:

Here's what we
think happened.

See the book:
Peter Enns, The Bible Tells Me So...

 

[St. SteVen]

the.reverent.atheist said:

Anyone who believes that it is perfectly reasonable to slaughter people purely for their beliefs is a bigot. Renounce your bigotry and apologize.

Demanding for a dead man with no negotiating position.

Sounds like a view of God as Dirty Harry with a gun to our head.

 

[Wrangler]

Oh my...
God as a cosmic tyrant?
Turning our loving heavenly Father into something more akin to a gangster godfather,
making us an offer we can;t refuse. Believe or burn. (spiritual extortion)

Certainly God's enemies, like @the.reverent.atheist, categorize him that way.

It's more like we are inexorably heading over the cliff to our death in a waterfall of our own making. Our loving Creator sends his Son. He reaches for us and says, "Take my hand so I can save you." Those without eyes to see angrily scowl, "Don't tell me 'do this' or else."

 

[St. SteVen]

St. SteVen said:
Oh my...
God as a cosmic tyrant?
Turning our loving heavenly Father into something more akin to a gangster godfather,
making us an offer we can;t refuse. Believe or burn. (spiritual extortion)

Certainly God's enemies, like @the.reverent.atheist, categorize him that way.

Jesus taught us that it is godly behavior to love our enemies. (Matthew 5:43-48)
What do you suppose he'll do with his enemies?

 

[Wrangler]

What do you suppose he'll do with his enemies?

What they deserve.

 

[St. SteVen]

What they deserve.

What do YOU and I deserve?

 

[St. SteVen]

As Christians we shouldn't shy away from this part of history, and this aspect of God.

Shy away from?
Throw a couple of pillows and a lampshade on the elephant in the room and pretend it's a couch? - LOL
What kind of a religion is this?

@the.reverent.atheist

 

[St. SteVen]

What is your hope @the.reverent.atheist ?

He probably hopes Christians will wake up and smell the cappuccino.

@the.reverent.atheist

 

[Patrick1966]

God is love and, according to mainstream Christianity, God tortures people FOREVER!