A 12 year-old boy sees Jesus and ...
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Dan Clarkston
Well-Known Member
Yep, God loved everyone that went to hell... but that doesn't stop them from going there if they don't abide in Christ and walk with Him.
Jesus is like Noah's Ark.... the salvation the Lord provides is only applicable to those that stay on the boat!
Those that jump overboard are no longer saved.... unless they repent of jumping overboard and get back on de boat.
Dan Clarkston
Well-Known Member
It does not say we cannot turn away from God
Other verses indicate that we actually can turn away from the Lord and cause ourselves to be separated from Him.
They just like to look at one verse that seemingly proves their position and ignore all other verses that do not agree with their position
THe verse states that neither any thing nor any created (person, angel, demon) can separate us from the love of God. Basically anyone or anything created.
Another man describes a vision shown by Jesus during a NDE of the Los Angeles fires - very disturbing.
[Jesus told him the fires are not just physical but spiritual. People have replaced God with things, luxuries, entertainment, technology, idolatry.
A spiritual conflagration that has been building up for generations ignited. He was shown a vision from above looking down on LA. He saw these spiritually dark areas, where the wild fires grew. Demonic beings were in the flames feeding off the fires, appearing as shadows dancing around. The darkness in peoples hearts gave access to demons to influence men to start the fires during gale and hurricane force winds.
As people united, prayed, helped eachother, the demonic forces were weakened, and fires were gradually contained.
> Fires will not be stopped by technology alone. Prayers, love and faith only will prevail. As people seek God and love one another, the fires will disipate.
These fires are warnings! Repent and turn to God.
Prayer and unity under God will make it difficult for these demonic forces to penetrate and cause darkness.
Judgments that will get worse if they do not heed the warning to repent.
The time to choose is now!.
The window of opportunity is closing. Wake up! Choose Jesus or fall into darkness.]
Sounds believable to me. I lived in Los Angeles County for 40 yeats and I can attest to the darkness there. It seems the state is being consumed by this spiritual conflagration which is why I left and many people have as well.
[Jesus told him the fires are not just physical but spiritual. People have replaced God with things, luxuries, entertainment, technology, idolatry.
A spiritual conflagration that has been building up for generations ignited. He was shown a vision from above looking down on LA. He saw these spiritually dark areas, where the wild fires grew. Demonic beings were in the flames feeding off the fires, appearing as shadows dancing around. The darkness in peoples hearts gave access to demons to influence men to start the fires during gale and hurricane force winds.
As people united, prayed, helped eachother, the demonic forces were weakened, and fires were gradually contained.
> Fires will not be stopped by technology alone. Prayers, love and faith only will prevail. As people seek God and love one another, the fires will disipate.
These fires are warnings! Repent and turn to God.
Prayer and unity under God will make it difficult for these demonic forces to penetrate and cause darkness.
Judgments that will get worse if they do not heed the warning to repent.
The time to choose is now!.
The window of opportunity is closing. Wake up! Choose Jesus or fall into darkness.]
Sounds believable to me. I lived in Los Angeles County for 40 yeats and I can attest to the darkness there. It seems the state is being consumed by this spiritual conflagration which is why I left and many people have as well.
Dan Clarkston
Well-Known Member
And... those that accept the whole counsel of God know and accept other verses that warn us about turning away from the Lord... so your verse obviously is not speaking of ourselves and is referring to others not us.
Context!
Rom. 8:1 begins speaking to Christians, in Christ. Then for 8 verses it goes back and forth comparing those who are in Christ, who walk by the Spirit, God's adopted children _ with _ unbelievers, who walk by the flesh, are lost and not God's children.
Then from verse 9 on it addresses the Christian. Rom. 8:28 is one our favorite verse and then that leads to verses 38 & 39, also speaking of Christians. Our salvation is sealed by the Holy Spirit, therefore nothing and no one can separate us from the loving relationship we have with God.
For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Rom. 8:38-39
Within His whole plan of salvation for any one individual, to be separated from God, Who is love, it is only logical that this person is not in the group above. They are reprobate. Death separates them from the lovebof God for sure. But likely their fate was known long before that. In Romans 1:18-32 we see that after a certain point in life, God let's the wicked go ( gives them over) to do their will. Though it is only fair to say God did love them for a time and gave them numerous opportunities to be reconciled to Him through Christ; enough is enough and He let's them go.
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This is a clear explanation of God's end of the deal, which is rock solid; he's not going anywhere. However, this says nothing about your ability to exercise your free will choice in a direction other than toward God. That verse is meant as an encouragement to believers who, when tempted or tried, might think that God does not love them.
You're not on some magical tractor beam that absolves you of the requirement of living righteously while claiming to be saved. We need to be walking in truth, and not in the vain imaginations of men.
The video ref'd in the OP is fake, a fiction, a vain imagination of men; and the OSAS/eternal security doctrine is also fake, a fiction, a vain imagination of men.
That is the faulty premise...
...which, of course, leads to that faulty conclusion of "OSAS."
Rather, followers of Christ accept the WHOLE counsel of God in all matters of faith and practice. Thus, this is what the Holy Bible has to say (over 35 passages) about the matter of the false doctrine of OSAS/eternal security.
Parable of the sower
Fallen from grace passage
Pruning passages
Hebrews Passages
Doctrinal Apostasy passages
Revelation passages
Old Testament passages
The fact the Bible exhorts to faithfulness proves one can be lost Man has a free will
The Bible clearly prophesied some would fall away
Christians are to restore the fallen
Your name can be blotted out of the book of life
After God forgives your sin, you can lose your salvation by not forgiving others
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Dan Clarkston
Well-Known Member
Your interpretation is in opposition of faith. What kind of faith do you have? And do you know what salvation is? We are saved now, not maybe in the future. My faith in God to secure my salvation, His gift of eternal life ( that He already gave me) is secure, certain, sealed.
But go your way of insecurity, fear of possibly losing it ... I won't go back and forth in a futile debate.
Dan Clarkston
Well-Known Member
If one turns away from the Lord and engage in sinful behavior... they are no longer saved since they chose to not continue with the Lord. They must turn away from their sin asking the Lord to forgive them to be in right standing with the Lord once more
Romans 11:22
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, IF thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Those that do not believe the whole counsel of God... reject His warnings and end up following the false doctrines of OSAS which lead many to live in sin and claim they are still saved
Those that don't accept all that the Lord says in His Word... typically say such things as this and many of them have sin in their lives which is why they enjoy having their ears tickled with the false doctrines of OSAS
mailmandan
Well-Known Member
Amen! Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. (John 5:24)
The Lord does not forsake His saints/they are preserved forever. (Psalm 37:28)
Jesus shall lose none of all those He has been given. (John 6:39)
Jesus' sheep hear His voice, He knows them, they follow Him, and they shall never perish or be snatched from His hand. (John 10:27-28)
Those He predestined, called and justified He also glorified. (Romans 8:30)
Who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee. (2 Corinthians 1:22)
Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee. (2 Corinthians 5:5)
We believe the gospel, are sealed with the Holy Spirit/guarantee of our inheritance until the purchased possession. (Ephesians 1:13-14)
We are sealed unto/for the day of redemption. (Ephesians 4:30)
He who has begun a good work in us will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ. (Philippians 1:6)
He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them. (Hebrews 7:25)
We have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. (Hebrews 10:10)
For by one offering he has perfected forever those who are sanctified. (Hebrews 10:14)
Those who are born of God are called, sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ. (Jude 1:1)
I have discovered that ALL false religions and cults that promote salvation by works strongly oppose OSAS which is a major red flag for me.
Thank you for all those scriptures, I just bow out from the argument and don't make the effort after a certain point.
Yes, it is a faith + works theology ... and they'll show all the scriptures that encourage and describe the life of a Christian, as one of fruit of the Spirit. The scriptures are true, just not their perspective.
Works are prepared for us to do by the Holy Spirit AFTER we have been born again, transformed spiritually into a new creature _ in Christ.
Works are a result of faith.
Works are not a prerequisite of salvation - that would imply legalism. The Jews were under the Law and basically had a faith + works religion. They were the test case for the world, to demonstrate that we could NOT keep the Law - which is why Christ come had to come down and fulfill the Law for us. We cooperate with the Lord, work alongside Him as He guides us ... we just don't earn our salavation.
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mailmandan
Well-Known Member
Amen and well said!
From beginning "have been saved through faith" (Ephesians 2:8) to end "receiving the end of your faith--the salvation of your souls" (1 Peter 1:9) salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works. (Ephesians 2:8,9) We are saved FOR and not by good works. (Ephesians 2:10)
Dan Clarkston
Well-Known Member
So do you believe a person can walk in evil works... living in sin, walking after the flesh... and still be saved?
That's what gnarly Charlie Stanley believes and he is considered by the OSAS peoples as one of the greatest teachers of all time... for those that follow the false doctrines of OSAS who don't accept the whole counsel of God and instead just accept bits and pieces of God's Word that fit their preconceived ideas (the eisegesis peoples)
Here's some quotes from their boy gnarly Charlie Stanley...
In his book, Eternal Security, Stanley says
"Even if a believer for all practical purposes becomes an unbeliever, his salvation is not in jeopardy” (Chapter 10, p. 93)
“Christ will not deny an unbelieving Christian his or her salvation because to do so would be to deny Himself” (p. 94).
“Believers who lose or abandon their faith will retain their salvation, for God remains faithful” (p. 94)
He actually taught one can be a "gay christian" and still go to Heaven proving he is a false teacher!
Here's a video where you can see video of Charlies saying this (just a few minutes into the video)
In this video, Gnarly Charlie says he's proud of Andy and supports him after heresy charges
Can a Person Live a Life of Sin and Remain Saved?
Once Saved, Always Saved?
Video that addresses false claims made by Chales Stanley
The most common response that the OSAS crowd can muster against the copious scriptural proof of their heresy is the hackneyed "salvation by works" retort.
An astute comment from another poster in a similar thread:
It's really quite simple to ascertain the truth of the matter. Simply examine the fruits of those who follow the Once Saved Always Saved false doctrine. You'll find weak disempowered people who are still smug in the "statement of faith" they scribbled in the back of their bibles way back at some youth camp straw bale trail, while sitting on their worldly buttocks today and operating outside of God's will for them. At the very least, they've buried their talent... as "works" is the last thing on their minds.
An astute comment from another poster in a similar thread:
Indeed, as where there is guilt, there is fear, and such misery is in want of company.
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You need to ask yourself, AM I born again? In other words, Did God make me into a new creature?
Have I been baptized by the Holy Spirit?
God doesn't change His mind, He doesn't give a gift of life and then take it away at a later time. Anyone who falls away was never born again to begin with.
Did you ever ask for the Holy Spirit?
Have you been baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son AND of the Holy Spirit?
The Holy Spirt confirms His presense with your spirit. No relationship with the Holy Spirit results in no discernment of scripture.
When you are " in Christ", you are saved. Numerous scripture speak of salvation in the present tense and past tense as we have been saved. You wanna twist the grammar too? We have eternal life!
John 3:16
"For God so loved the world that he gave his only son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish, but have eternal life"
1 John 5:13
"I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life"
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A 12 year-old boy sees Jesus and ...
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