10 Commandments too Tough?

[doughty]

Reminds me of this verse
Galatians 3:24
New King James Version

24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

 

[mailmandan]

I noticed the Greek word for "keep" is "tereo" which means to guard, observe, watch over.

Strong's Concordance
téreó: to watch over, to guard
Original Word: τηρέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: téreó
Phonetic Spelling: (tay-reh'-o)
Definition: to watch over, to guard
Usage: I keep, guard, observe, watch over.

Strong's Greek: 5083. τηρέω (téreó) -- to watch over, to guard

How do SDA's define "keep"? Flawlessly obey 100% of the time? Only Jesus Christ has flawlessly obeyed the 10 commandments 100% of the time, so why all the fuss about keeping the commandments (with a heavy emphasis on the 4th commandment) as the basis or means of receiving eternal life?

 

[Desire Of All Nations]

If anyone keeps the law of Moses, including slaughtering animals to appease God, they will be arrested (at least in the Western world). Beyond that, it is impossible to keep the law of Moses entirely. If it was possible then there would be no need for Jesus' sacrifice.

John 7:19a, "Hasn’t Moses given you the law? Yet not one of you keeps the law!" Is Jesus wrong here?

Beyond that...

Galatians 3:10, "For all who rely on doing the works of the law are under a curse, because it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not keep on doing everything written in the book of the law.”

The obvious hypocrisy in your argument lies in the fact that you'll accuse Catholics of idolatry, but you turn around and simultaneously claim to whoever tries to live by God's commandments are putting themselves under a curse? So which is it going to be Jim, are Catholics wrong for venerating relics or not?

If you believe that they're in the wrong for venerating relics, then you acknowledge the fact that God's commandments are still authoritative, otherwise Catholics can safely disregard your accusations as being nothing more than the opinionated ramblings of a Protestant.

A person would have to be extremely ignorant, dishonest, and irrational to argue that refraining from morally disagreeable behavior like murder, lying, sexual immorality, and stealing, or dishonoring parents puts somebody under a curse when God explicitly stated in Deuteronomy that these laws were given for humanity's own good.

The obvious conclusion then, is that you need to honestly and diligently investigate which "law" Paul was actually referring to when he made that statement in Gal. 3:10, because he's clearly not referring to God's commandments. In his letter to the Romans, he plainly described them as being holy, just, and good(Rom. 7:12).

Whoever argues that God's commandments are a curse might as well drop all pretext of being a Christian because that position is nothing more than an atheist argument camouflaged with religious language. Such a person cannot rationally pretend that those commandments are only authoritative when it's convenient.

 

[BarneyFife]

I noticed the Greek word for "keep" is "tereo" which means to guard, observe, watch over.

Strong's Concordance
téreó: to watch over, to guard
Original Word: τηρέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: téreó
Phonetic Spelling: (tay-reh'-o)
Definition: to watch over, to guard
Usage: I keep, guard, observe, watch over.

Strong's Greek: 5083. τηρέω (téreó) -- to watch over, to guard

How do SDA's define "keep"? Flawlessly obey 100% of the time? Only Jesus Christ has flawlessly obeyed the 10 commandments 100% of the time, so why all the fuss about keeping the commandments (with a heavy emphasis on the 4th commandment) as the basis or means of receiving eternal life?

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How much murder, stealing, lying, idolatry, and adultery are acceptable?

Seventh-day Adventists emphasize the Sabbath about like you'd expect in a world of over 2 billion Christians who keep all but the 4th commandment, many of whom slyly claim they only keep the summary of two. And it doesn't matter what Seventh-day Adventists emphasize. The only thing that matters is every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. Exodus 20:8-11 is not going to go away, just like Jesus said:

“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.​

I started separate threads on the first 3 commandments and there were virtually none of the usual objections or appeals to grace over works at all. Christians only object to the 4th commandment because its observance would require sacrifice they are not ready nor willing to render to Christ.

​

By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.​

But if anyone dare start a thread on the ten as a whole or the 4th, in particular, and the decriers come out of the woodwork like moths to a flame. It's all so telling. People don't like being told what to do—not even Christians—and not even by God Himself.

The commandments are to be guarded, observed, and watched over so I'm not clear about the purpose of stating the obvious.

Folks are free to keep right on trampling the law of God underfoot. That's God's provision of religious liberty, purchased by the blood of His dear Son. (His suffering on the cross was for every violation of the ten commandments in all ages—including the 4th.)

"We'll leave the light on for ya."

But His Spirit will not always strive with man.

___________________________

From the Dallas Times/Herald:

Question:
Some religious people I know tell me that the ten commandments are a part of the law and do not apply to us today. They say that, as Christians, we are free from the law. Is that right?

Answer from Evangelist Billy Graham (not a Seventh-day Adventist):
No, it is not right, and I hope you'll not be misled by these false opinions. It is important to understand what the New Testament means when it says that Christians are free from the law. It certainly does not mean that they are free from the obligations of the moral law of God and are at liberty to sin. You see the word "law" is used by the New Testament writers in two senses: Sometimes it refers to the ceremonial law of the Old Testament which is concerned about ritual matters and regulations regarding food and drink and things of this kind. This ceremonial law was of a passing character and was done away when Christ came. From this law Christians are indeed free. But, the New Testament also speaks of a moral law which is of a permanent, unchanging character and is summarized in the ten commandments. This law sets forth God's demands on human life and man's duty to God and neighbor, and that it definitely applies to the Christian is made clear in Romans 10:8-10. Of course, it is quite true that the Christian is not saved by his efforts to keep the law but, as one who is saved by God's mercy through faith in Christ, He is under an obligation to obey God's law. As it has been said, in Christ we are free from sin but not free to sin. "If you love me," He said, "keep my commandments."



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[BarneyFife]

keeping the commandments... as the basis or means of receiving eternal life?

 

[mailmandan]

Post #24 was a straw man indeed with no sufficient answer to my question.

 

[BarneyFife]

Post #24 was a straw man indeed with no sufficient answer to my question.

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I find trying to answer your questions sufficiently (to your satisfaction) to be an exercise in futility. So I just address the issue at hand loosely in context with your anti-Adventist obsession-driven remarks. I have my own concerns to deal with, without humoring those who despise God's law. If the shoe fits...

Sorry, MMD, but that's the situation as I see it at present.
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[BarneyFife]

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When Christ, looking back over His life of thirty-three years, said that He had finished the work His Father gave Him to do, how did He sum it all up? “All things that I have heard of My Father I have made known unto you.” “If ye keep My commandments, ye shall abide in My love, even as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.” John 15:15, 10. In this statement we have not so much a command as an example, and when Christ said that, He gave His complete biography. When he said, “I have kept My Father’s commandments,” He gave His whole life-history. And what does it mean?-I have manifested the character of My Father. What, then, does it mean to keep the commandments?-It means to manifest the character of God as it appeared in Jesus Christ. Nothing short of that is keeping the commandments. The Pharisees prided themselves that they were keeping the commandments, but Christ said, “Ye know not the Scriptures.” What they knew about the Scriptures, they had learned by the head. What we learn about the Scriptures, we must learn by heart, “the eyes of your understanding being enlightened, that ye may know,”-know it really and truly by heart.

When Christ told them that He had kept His Father’s commandments, He told them that He was the manifestation of God on the earth. He told them in those words that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto Himself; He told them that He did not speak His own words, but the words of His Father. “The Father that dwelleth in Me, He doeth the works.” He told them that He was the Word of God on the earth, because He was declaring the character of God. He told them He was Jesus Christ. All this He told them in these words: “I have kept My Father’s commandments.” Christ was a man, the Son of man. There has, then, been one man who walked this earth, and kept the commandments of God. He is our example. We are to walk as He walked.

CAN WE KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS?

When we thus learn from the Scriptures that keeping the commandments is manifesting the character of God, we may say, It is impossible for us to do that. That is a good beginning. We cannot do it, that is true. But who did keep the commandments?-Jesus Christ. And who can do it over again, even in sinful flesh?-Jesus Christ. And how shall we walk as He walked? “And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be My People.” 2 Corinthians 6:16. God dwelt in Christ and walked in Christ. Christ was the branch unto God that He might be the vine unto us, that the life through Him might flow into us as branches, that we might bear the fruit of the vine.

“He that saith he abideth in Him ought himself also so to walk even as He walked.” Let the scripture tell how He walked: “I have kept my Father’s commandments.” The life of God abides in him who abides in Christ, and the scripture is fulfilled, “I will dwell in them and walk in them.” God in Christ, by His Holy Spirit dwelling in the man, walks in him. This shows how we can walk as Christ walked.

But first of all, take what the word of God says. Do not take what man says. Let the light of God shine upon His word. Let His Holy Spirit teach us the blessed living truth of His word, and God Himself will fulfil His word in everyone who thus receives it.

But let us read further: “A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you a heart of flesh. And I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and ye shall keep My judgments and do them.” Ezekiel 36:26, 27. That is the promise of God. But when He says, “My Child, this way,” and I choose to go another way, He does not cause us to walk in His way. He does not cause us to do contrary to our will in this matter. But when one says, Lord, show me the way (Psalm 119:33), He shows him the way, and causes him to walk in it. That is the way of His working.

The blessed Bible teaches us the same truth in a hundred different ways. Suppose we turn to a page of what we may call God’s picture book. To help children to understand, we give them pictures to illustrate what we are teaching. We are but children, and God often tells us a truth by putting a picture before us. Here is one:

“And great multitudes came unto Him, having with them those that were lame, blind, dumb, maimed, and many others, and cast them down at Jesus’ feet; and He healed them.” Could any one be much worse off? They were in a terrible plight, but “He healed them.” “Insomuch that the multitude wondered, when they saw the dumb to speak, the maimed to be whole, the lame to walk, and the blind to see; and they glorified the God of Israel.” Matthew 15:30, 31. We are lame; we cannot walk as Christ walked. Christ had a noble walk. We cannot walk that kind of a walk. What does He do for us? He healed them; cannot He heal us?

Here is another of God’s pictures, which we have looked at many times. It is the picture of the man lame from his mother’s womb. Take the Scripture just as it reads. What was the matter with this man? He was lame. And how long had he been lame?-All his life. What did Peter say to him?-“Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.” What then? “And he took him by the right hand and lifted him up, and immediately his feet and ankle bones received strength.” And when he had received strength, what did he do?-“And he leaping up stood, and walked, and entered with them into the temple, walking and leaping, and praising God.” But he had to receive strength in the name of Jesus of Nazareth before he could walk. And the people “were filled with wonder and amazement at that which had happened unto him.” “And when Peter saw it, he answered unto the people, Ye men of Israel, why marvel ye at this?” Ye men that believe in Israel’s God, why do ye wonder at this? Do you not believe in a God of power? “Why look ye so earnestly on us, as though by our own power or holiness we had made this man to walk?” Acts 3:6-12.


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[BarneyFife]

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WALKING AS CHRIST WALKED

No man can make another walk as Christ walked if he has not the strength to walk that way. It is through faith in Jesus of Nazareth. “And His name, through faith in His name, hath made this man strong, whom ye see and know; yea, the faith which is by Him hath given him this perfect soundness in the presence of you all.” Israel’s God lives to-day, and the same power that touched that man who never had walked and made him able to walk, can take the worst sinner, who never has stepped one step in the steps of Jesus Christ, and make him to walk as Christ walked. “In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, rise up and walk.”

Here is another picture to show us that we can walk as He walked through faith in His name: “And there sat a certain man at Lystra, impotent in his feet, being a cripple from his mother’s womb, who never had walked.” But he had heard Paul speak, and the message had taken hold of his heart. Paul saw that he had faith to be healed, and he “said with a loud voice, stand upright on thy feet. And he leaped and walked.” Acts 14:8-10. And he walked like a well man. He was made well in order that he might do this. That is the work of Jesus Christ. And to-day by His power we can walk as He walked. “As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in Him.” Colossians 2:6. And to walk in Him is the only way we can walk as He walked.

“And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given Himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet smelling savour.” Ephesians 5:2. Many people have a very incorrect idea of what it means to walk in love. They seem to have an idea that it is to get up a kind of ecstasy so that they do not know where they are or what they are doing. It means to them to get above the ordinary things of life. This is not the correct view. The Scripture defines exactly what it means to walk in love. “And this is love that we walk after His commandments.” 2 John 6. “For this is the love of God that we keep His commandments.” 1 John 5:3. “If ye love Me,” Christ said, “keep My commandments.” “If ye keep My Commandments, ye shall abide in My love, even as I have kept My Father’s commandments, and abide in His love.” John 15:10. The love of God is not a sentimental emotion, not a fanatical frenzy of experience. Christ worked at the carpenter’s bench during the greater part of His life. He went down to Nazareth and was subject to His parents. His walk as a young man is the walk for every young man. Christ tells us how to love Him. He does not accept anything else.

It is of great importance for us to—

GET A RIGHT IDEA OF JESUS CHRIST

Let a man get a wrong idea of Him, and He will devote his life to his false idea, and sacrifice the lives of all who do not see his Christ as He sees Him. Take, for instance, the example of Paul. He was looking for Messiah; but it was his Messiah, not the Lord’s Messiah, so that when the Lord’s Messiah came he did not see Him. Some did, and believed on Him, and Paul immediately began to persecute them because they did not believe on his Christ. “For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews’ religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it.” “In the Jews’ religion.” God’s religion never persecuted anybody. It is man’s religion that leads one to persecute those who do not see his Christ. God’s religion never does so. “And profited in the Jews’ religion above many my equals in mine own nation.” Observe what the Jews’ religion was. “Being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.” Galatians 1:13, 14. He was zealous of the traditions of his fathers, not of the word of God. “But when it pleased God who separated me from my mother’s womb, and called me by His grace, to reveal His Son in me, that I might preach Him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood. Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them that were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus. Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days. But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord’s brother. Now the things which I write unto yon, behold, before God, I lie not. Afterward I came into the region of Syria and Cilicia; and was unknown by face unto the churches of Judea which were in Christ; but they had heard only, that he which persecuted us in times past now preacheth the faith which once he destroyed. And they glorified God in me.” Galatians 1:15-24. It is important that we have a true idea of Christ.

CHRIST IS ALL AND IN ALL,

and in order to walk as He walked, we must know Him in His capacity of adapting Himself to us. The Scripture sets Him forth in this way, that we may appropriate the love of God to ourselves.

“I am the door.” John 10:7. That is the entrance. No man can enter except through Christ.

“I am the way.” John 14:6. I am the door and the way to walk in.

“I am the light of the world.” John 8:12. I am the door, the way, the light. This is a dark world, and we need a light.

“I am that bread of life.” John 6:48. We need strength to walk in the way. “I am that bread of life.”

“I am the good shepherd.” John 10:11. He is the companion who goes with His sheep.

“I am... the life.” John 14:6. This is the power for the way.

“I am the resurrection.” John 11:25. That is the end of the road.

I am the door, I am the way, I am the light, I am the bread, I am the Good Shepherd, I am the life, I am the resurrection. That is: I am the entrance, the road, the light to walk by, the strength to walk with, the companion by the way, the power for the way, and the end of the way. And so David in the 23rd Psalm says, “Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for Thou art with me; Thy rod and Thy staff they comfort me.” Jesus Christ’s walk extends not simply to the grave, but through the grave. And because of this, we may go through the valley of the shadow of death, and not be left in it. “I am the resurrection and the life;” and he who abides in Christ, who is the door, the way, the light, the bread, the Good Shepherd, the life, and the resurrection, does walk “even as He walked.”

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[mailmandan]

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I find trying to answer your questions sufficiently (to your satisfaction) to be an exercise in futility. So I just address the issue at hand loosely in context with your anti-Adventist obsession-driven remarks. I have my own concerns to deal with, without humoring those who despise God's law. If the shoe fits...

Sorry, MMD, but that's the situation as I see it at present.
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So how do you define "keep"? It's not about flawless or lawless.

 

[BarneyFife]

So how do you define "keep"? It's not about flawless or lawless.

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How much sin is acceptable?

We could do this all day, couldn't we?
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[BarneyFife]

So how do you define "keep"? It's not about flawless or lawless.

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How much sin is acceptable?

We could do this all day, couldn't we?
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Let's not.
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[mailmandan]

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How much sin is acceptable?

We could do this all day, couldn't we?
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Sin is never acceptable, yet all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. (Romans 3:23)

Still no definition of "keep"?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

What can be said to those who believe they can stop sinning altogether in this life?

Nothing! In one ear and out the other!

If you can't show me scripture in what you believe, then you are just letting false teachers read the Bible for you. That is just plain lazy. You don't even believe the scriptures I showed you. You just want to believe what sounds good to your itching ears.

 

[Charlie24]

If you can't show me scripture in what you believe, then you are just letting false teachers read the Bible for you. That is just plain lazy. You don't even believe the scriptures I showed you. You just want to believe what sounds good to your itching ears.

LOL, fair enough.

 

[Enoch111]

10 Commandments Too Tough???

Not really. By the same token no one can obey them perfectly, and therein lies the catch. Without perfect obedience, one is guilty of breaking the whole law.

 

[Enoch111]

What can be said to those who believe they can stop sinning altogether in this life?

There is no remedy for delusional people. Even the apostle Paul did not make that claim, and if anything, he could have been the only one to do so.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

There is no remedy for delusional people. Even the apostle Paul did not make that claim, and if anything, he could have been the only one to do so.

• Enoch, go back and read the scriptures in my post #15 and tell be why you don't believe them. You mentioned Paul. Don't you know his writings MUST be read in context? Many times he was speaking of what it was like back when he was under the law, (Romans 7:14-25), or when he was hunting down Christians to kill them when he was a Zealot ("chief of sinners") and still had his sin nature, and you want to argue that it was about when he was a Christian. Didn't you ever take English in high school? If you are still willfully sinning, then please read 1 John 3 in #15 and repent. 1 John 1:9 was written to you. It seems you are just SAYING you are a Christian like those who SAY they are without sin in 1 John 1:8 when they have never repented and still live in darkness like those who SAY they have a relationship with God, 1 John 1:6. Those are NOT CHRISTIANS!

1 John 1:
6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1 John 2: 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

9 He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. 10 He who loves his brother abides in the light, and there is no cause for stumbling in him. 11 But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

 

[Enoch111]

...so why all the fuss about keeping the commandments (with a heavy emphasis on the 4th commandment) as the basis or means of receiving eternal life?

You need to go back to Ellen G. White for this. Here is what she wrote in The Desire of the Ages:

"The Sabbath was not for Israel merely, but for the world." But there is nothing in Scripture to support that. And she even quoted what was written for Israel: "For, speaking of Israel, He said, "I gave them My Sabbaths, to be a sign between Me and them, that they might know that I am the Lord that sanctify them,"—make them holy."

She also confused the Sabbath with "the Lord's Day" (the first day of the week) --"Because the Sabbath was made for man, it is the Lord's day." The term "the Lord's day" occurs just once (Rev 1:10), but the Sabbath is never called "the Lord's day" because it is the seventh day Sabbath. The reason the first day of the week is the Lord's day is because the resurrect Lord rose on that day, and made it a day for Christian rest and worship. The Lord's Supper (a weekly remembrance feast) was also given for the Lord's Day.

Then the SDA church designated the papacy as the Antichrist (the Beast), and because the Catholic Church holds Sunday to be the day of Christian worship (as do most Christians) therefore to worship on Sunday would mean taking the Mark of the Beast:
"The papacy is here saying that it “changed” Sabbath to Sunday and that virtually all churches accepted the new holy day. Thus, the papacy claims that Sunday as a holy day is the mark, or symbol, of her power and authority."
The Sabbath and the Mark of the Beast | Sabbath Truth

In order to arrive at this bizarre conclusion, the SDA church converted 1260 days (3 1/2 years or 42 months assigned to the Beast) into 1260 years! Just like that! That is called sleight of hand. Since the Bible is clear that the Antichrist is NOT an institution or a position but actually a man -- the Man of Sin -- this theory falls flat right there.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

Because we do not act in love!

Mathew 22 beginning at verse 34

Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. One an expert in the law, tested him with this question: Teacher which is the greatest commandment in the Law?

Jesus replied: "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and all your mind." This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it 'Love they neighbor as they theyself.' All of law and prophets hang on these two commandments.

What makes the 10 Commandments so hard?

Pride, conceit, anything that pushes love out of ones heart!

Love is in the Greatest commandment, love is in the next greatest commandment. And love is hardest thing to find in mankind!

In LOVE the Ten Commandments are easy. Without love they are impossible!

Mankind let's pride push love to the side!

Al

Bible says that Love is not the greatest.
Charity ? if one has no Charity you have nothing ?
Charity, as in understanding that of Christian Charity, is not the common charity we are peddled nowadays.

Anyone who rejects the Commandments is not worthy of God in fact.
But I see some believe that the Commandments are as they were as in under the OT. but no they were changed and under Grace they became fruitful and Christ Jesus added the two that top them all off in fact ! now under Grace they are all worthy ? but the carnal or the religious dupe numbskull only sees them as the Jews see them. For they do not have Grace.

So I have seen numbskulls claim that the OT Laws are finished with. well yes they have in a sense coming from the Jews point of view and the carnal or religious dupe ? But they under Grace have been changed totally and no one who is truly born again bags any of the Commandments at all ! Now one may not cut the grade as to the Commandments lets say ? but that does not mean at all that you reject them ! or do not hold them up in high esteem ! as they are Gods word in fact.

Now if I were to do something wrong ? lets say if I did ? now I acknowledge and repent, because I value all of Gods Law ! under Grace ? but one does not bag the Law because such offend yourself ? or as some have claimed that they are saved regardless, so they pay no mind to their Sin ? They think that their Sin has been payed for ? and such has been in a sense but the Gift has to be picked up and carried, Like the Cross. or The Yoke ? we bear and remember the pricks of the Yoke ? remember the pricks are their from God, for you ! So as to lead you to the easy path ?
They with no Yoke are going about such the hard way and not abiding of God.