“I will shew thee my faith by my works.“

[bbyrd009]

I think they said the same things to Jesus.

i don't believe you HR, i don't think you think that at all, or you would not have so steadfastly refused to address the half of the Bible that you do; those vv would not bother you in that case. Unfortunately they are the very vv that illuminate the diff in belief and faith, should one be so remiss as to not bother reading from the Lex, where this deliberate misunderstanding could never even manifest. Jesus Himself is the one telling you some of the vv that you will not address, so again i don't believe you; i have made it a point to patiently dig up and Quote the vv to you several times now HR, in response to some diversionary reply reply you gave to avoid the subject, and so have others.

Now, you got a belief system that suits you, at least as long as you avoid half of the Book, that you surely paid good money for, and i wish you the best, ok.
You strike me as a good hearted person, and you can believe that you will see Him come down the same way they saw Him go up if you like

 

[Heart2Soul]

Victory: It is more than obvious that James was talking about the "Works" of following Yahweh's Laws, Torah and Commands. James made it clear that Paul's "faith and grace" without following Yahweh's Laws, Torah and Commands were as worthless as worthless can possibly be. Supposedly Jesus said that He did not come to do away with one jot or tittle of Yahweh's Laws, Torah and Commands:

Matthew 5:17-19
Matthew 5:17-19 17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven".

It was the murderer, tare and false apostle Paul that conjured/dreamed up the detestable tall tale that Yahweh's Laws/Torah/Commands were nailed to the Cross and that those Blessed and Holy Laws/Torah were a curse to man. Paul was the servant of the evil one/satan/devil.

Moses, the Prophets, Jesus and the true 12 Apostles followed/Observed Yahweh's Laws, Torah and Commands to the very end of their lives. The only way anyone will be resurrected into the New Covenant/Paradise/Heaven is to faithfully follow/observe Yahweh's Laws, Torah and Commands. There is absolutely no shortcuts or any other way. Take the murder, tare and false apostle Paul's heathen and pagan detestable teachings with a grain of salt.

Somebody should have told Jesus about him before he chose him to be one of his disciples......now I am really upset that my Lord and Savior was deceived by him....

IN all seriousness....REALLY? So you basically are saying that when Jesus met him on the road to Damascus asking why do you persecute me? Then blinded him and he had to meet up with this prophet to hear what the Lord wanted to say to him....then to top that off....he was with Jesus being taught by Him, being discipled by him....then being anointed to become an apostle..... that JESUS didn't know he was the servant of satan? What was he a spy....like the KGB or whoever CIA.....Paul would never have converted if it wasn't for Jesus appearing to him and calling him to serve with him. Jesus KNEW who Paul was and what his sins were......and he saw a man who was zealous in what he believed and pursued it with his whole heart...in such case it was persecuting Christians....but that same zeal that used to be used for persecuting Christians became the same zeal and passion for leading people to Christ and they become saved and live a life as a Christian.

I just scratch my head and say.....Father you warned us these false teachers and such would rise up.....

I am going to pray for you that the Holy Spirit will open your eyes to see the truth....:)

 

[H. Richard]

I have already explained to you concerning Abrahams offer of Isaac and Abraham being declared righteous in (Gen. 15:6). Why do you keep asking? You just ignore what I said.

And, you ignore that you are declaring the book of James not from God. As I just proved to you.

So, what is the deal?

Stranger

***
The deal is that you do not understand that the gospel changed from law to grace. If your understanding of the gospel for today is found in the 4 gospels and James then you will never see grace. There is a statement on this forum that a person has to harmonize the scriptures. To me that means that a person has to twist some of the scriptures to force them into a theology of man. I read the scriptures for what they say knowing that all the scriptures are for our learning but not all are for us under grace. The book of James is not TO US UNDER GRACE.

Until a person understands that the gospel of grace was HIDDEN IN GOD AND REVEALED TO PAUL they will never understand how to rightly divide the word of God. Jesus and the 12 never preached the gospel of grace. They were under the Law of Moses. The gospel of grace was HIDDEN IN GOD and only revealed to Paul to teach.

I see that the biggest argument among those that write on forums is between those that believe works must be done to get and keep salvation (JAMES) and those who believe Paul when he said we (under grace) who place our faith God's promise of salvation based on Jesus' shed blood
alone will be saved.

Now you can rationalize that James and Paul were teaching the same gospel all you want to but I see that in Acts 21:20 they were not teaching the same thing. James was teaching law and Paul was teaching grace. What are you teaching??

 

[Stranger]

***
The deal is that you do not understand that the gospel changed from law to grace. If your understanding of the gospel for today is found in the 4 gospels and James then you will never see grace. There is a statement on this forum that a person has to harmonize the scriptures. To me that means that a person has to twist some of the scriptures to force them into a theology of man. I read the scriptures for what they say knowing that all the scriptures are for our learning but not all are for us under grace. The book of James is not TO US UNDER GRACE.

Until a person understands that the gospel of grace was HIDDEN IN GOD AND REVEALED TO PAUL they will never understand how to rightly divide the word of God. Jesus and the 12 never preached the gospel of grace. They were under the Law of Moses. The gospel of grace was HIDDEN IN GOD and only revealed to Paul to teach.

I see that the biggest argument among those that write on forums is between those that believe works must be done to get and keep salvation (JAMES) and those who believe Paul when he said we (under grace) who place our faith God's promise of salvation based on Jesus' shed blood
alone will be saved.

Now you can rationalize that James and Paul were teaching the same gospel all you want to but I see that in Acts 21:20 they were not teaching the same thing. James was teaching law and Paul was teaching grace. What are you teaching??

In (Acts 21:20), without a doubt, James as a believer was zealous for the law. As were many in the Jerusalem church. And holding on to the law was definitely a problem with James and those in his church. But that does not mean the book of James is not to the Church. It does not mean that James got it wrong when God used him to write it. It is heavily Jewish but to Jewish Christians. Peter was wrong in separating from the Gentiles, yet God used him to write two epistles. Paul, I believe, was wrong in (Acts 21:21-26). But look at the epistles he wrote.

James was was writing to Jewish believers. Thus his tone is going to be Jewish, of course. But it is Christian. (James 2:1) "My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons."

Yes, Paul's gospel was given him by Jesus Christ, by revelation. Thus James and the other disciples would benefit in understanding and learning the gospel Paul preached. But that doesn't mean they were not operating as Christians under the guidance of the Holy Spirit when they wrote their epistles. And what they wrote is what God wanted them to write.

Stranger

 

[VictoryinJesus]

For I tell you that God is able to raise up children for Abraham from these stones!

Ecclesiastes 3:5 “A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together;...”

Genesis 31:46
[46] And Jacob said unto his brethren, Gather stones; and they took stones, and made an heap: and they did eat there upon the heap.

 

[bbyrd009]

***

I think they said the same things to Jesus.

then why are you putzing with S now rather than posting an interp to one of Jesus' several refutes to your pov, and making me into a liar? HR you are going to be put on the spot a lot worse than this ok, than i am doing right now, and you are going to make your own guilt plain in that day, ok? I remem this "we will not be judged, like the Book says" doctrine, and it is a bunch of hooey HR.

You are going to be judged for your works. All must appear before the judgement seat. The vv about not being judged are meant in a different context, kind of more like "when your ways are pleasing to God, even your enemies are at peace with you" maybe, iow a contrast is being admitted, not an absolute. Regardless, you seem like a quite good-hearted person imo

but I see that in Acts 21:20 they were not teaching the same thing.

? so iow in acts 21:21, They have been informed that you teach all the Jews who live among the Gentiles to turn away from Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children or live according to our customs,

you agree with them? the ones who are "coming" a couple vv later?
listen to yourself HR, i mean it's like you haven't even read the whole passage or something

 

[bbyrd009]

the gospel changed from law to grace.

no, it didn't, sorry

 

[bbyrd009]

If your understanding of the gospel for today is found in the 4 gospels and James then you will never see grace.

every single sentence you post is incorrect HR, you might at least post less boldly.
best of luck to you, ok

 

[VictoryinJesus]

@bbyrd009, where did your “the bed is too short” quote go? Isaiah 28:20
[20] For the bed is shorter than that a man can stretch himself on it : and the covering narrower than that he can wrap himself in it .

What is one to do when the bed is too short and the covering to narrow?

 

[H. Richard]

In (Acts 21:20), without a doubt, James as a believer was zealous for the law. As were many in the Jerusalem church. And holding on to the law was definitely a problem with James and those in his church. But that does not mean the book of James is not to the Church. It does not mean that James got it wrong when God used him to write it. It is heavily Jewish but to Jewish Christians. Peter was wrong in separating from the Gentiles, yet God used him to write two epistles. Paul, I believe, was wrong in (Acts 21:21-26). But look at the epistles he wrote.

James was was writing to Jewish believers. Thus his tone is going to be Jewish, of course. But it is Christian. (James 2:1) "My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons."

Yes, Paul's gospel was given him by Jesus Christ, by revelation. Thus James and the other disciples would benefit in understanding and learning the gospel Paul preached. But that doesn't mean they were not operating as Christians under the guidance of the Holy Spirit when they wrote their epistles. And what they wrote is what God wanted them to write.

Stranger

***

And I suppose your understanding of them is what God wants you (AND EVERYONE ELSE) to understand and all those that have another opinion are doing Satan's work, RIGHT?

 

[bbyrd009]

@bbyrd009, where did your “the bed is too short” quote go? Isaiah 28:20
[20] For the bed is shorter than that a man can stretch himself on it : and the covering narrower than that he can wrap himself in it .

What is one to do when the bed is too short and the covering to narrow?

run and hide from reflections of truth and avoid it like the plague i guess? :)

 

[VictoryinJesus]

run and hide from reflections of truth and avoid it like the plague i guess? :)

"Take(pick) up your bed and walk."

"Take up your cross and follow me."

 

[bbyrd009]

"Take(pick) up your bed and walk."

"Take up your cross and follow me."

yet what i am witnessing herenow is more like "going to the Samaritans?"
not that that is not a completely familiar feeling in this case, w/HR
i already know that he cannot answer me bc then he would have to change his mind;
he would rather talk to satan than me right now i guess lol
if he runs true to form he won't talk to me for about a week, or until the posts get buried,
whichever comes last. He is likely even "offended" now i guess

 

[VictoryinJesus]

yet what i am witnessing herenow is more like "going to the Samaritans?"
not that that is not a completely familiar feeling in this case, w/HR
i already know that he cannot answer me bc then he would have to change his mind;
he would rather talk to satan than me right now lol
if he runs true to form he won't talk to me for about a week, or until the posts get buried,
whichever comes last. He is likely even "offended" now i guess

I don’t mean to interfere with your conversation with HR, and I’m not trying to trap or teach you...you quote verses often that has also leapt out at me over the past couple of years, so when I come here and you bring them up:

for instance “do you not have tables at home” and the bed is too short...I pause and wonder if they mean the same to you. I genuinely ask you because I value your input. I hope that makes sense.

 

[bbyrd009]

I don’t mean to interfere with your conversation with HR, and I’m not trying to trap or teach you

ah, well your input would be welcome there anyway? Fwiw HR is gone, and i am open to learning

so when I come here and you bring them up:

for instance “do you not have tables at home” and the bed is too short...I pause and wonder if they mean the same to you.

i would say no, not exactly, even though the same persons--"believers"--experience both?
one is a comment on where worship should be conducted, and the other is a comment about those who complain imo, briefly

 

[Helen]

I heard someone say once that the obscure verse in Isaiah 28..20 "For the bed is shorter than that a man can stretch himself on it; and the covering narrower than that he can wrap himself in it."

Is similar to .....Isa 54 2 "Enlarge the place of thy tent, and let them stretch forth the curtains of thine habitations: spare not, lengthen thy cords, and strengthen thy stakes;
3 For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited. "

Speaking of outgrowing our spiritual habitation and enlarging our vision of God.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I heard someone say once that the obscure verse in Isaiah 28..20 "For the bed is shorter than that a man can stretch himself on it; and the covering narrower than that he can wrap himself in it."

Is similar to .....Isa 54 2 "Enlarge the place of thy tent, and let them stretch forth the curtains of thine habitations: spare not, lengthen thy cords, and strengthen thy stakes;
3 For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited. "

Speaking of outgrowing our spiritual habitation and enlarging our vision of God.

View attachment 3764

Never heard it explained that way before. Thank you. What it says to me which doesn’t mean it is right. See the man on a bed too short and his covering too narrow...he is in an uncomfortable bed. Consider the saying: you made your bed now lie in it. God said pick up those dead works of trying wrestling with cover too narrow and stretch yourself out on a bed too short...it won’t work. Which to me, gives powerful meaning to “pick up your (old)bed and walk”. A command of faith. What you have done before, follow Christ and put those dead works to death and walk. Restoration. Healing. Life. Consider: Luke 11:7-8 And he from within shall answer and say, Trouble me not: the door is now shut, and my children are with me in bed; I cannot rise and give thee. [8] I say unto you, Though he will not rise and give him, because he is his friend, yet because of his importunity he will rise and give him as many as he needeth.

But then there is another bed; an adulterous bed of works and trying to cover ourselves apart from God.

 

[Stranger]

***

And I suppose your understanding of them is what God wants you (AND EVERYONE ELSE) to understand and all those that have another opinion are doing Satan's work, RIGHT?

Again, (James 2:1) " My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons."

When your opinion leads you to make statements that suggest the book of James is not inspired by God, then yes, your opinion is satanic.

Stranger

 

[VictoryinJesus]

ah, well your input would be welcome there anyway? Fwiw HR is gone, and i am open to learning

i would say no, not exactly, even though the same persons--"believers"--experience both?
one is a comment on where worship should be conducted, and the other is a comment about those who complain imo, briefly

“Do you not have tables at home?” One must consider:1 Corinthians 11:19-21
[19] For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. [20] When ye come together therefore into one place, this is not to eat the Lord's supper. [21] For in eating every one taketh before other his own supper: and one is hungry, and another is drunken.

If you are hungry eat (and digest) the word of God at home in fellowship with God. So when you come together as a body, it is to serve one another in fellowship of brethren.

 

[bbyrd009]

I heard someone say once that the obscure verse in Isaiah 28..20 "For the bed is shorter than that a man can stretch himself on it; and the covering narrower than that he can wrap himself in it."

Is similar to .....Isa 54 2 "Enlarge the place of thy tent, and let them stretch forth the curtains of thine habitations: spare not, lengthen thy cords, and strengthen thy stakes;
3 For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited. "

Speaking of outgrowing our spiritual habitation and enlarging our vision of God.

View attachment 3764

nice imo!
one is about perspectives on lack, and the other is about perspectives on plenty, right?