Does Christian Universalism deny the justice of God?

AngelicArcher · Tuesday at 3:00 PM

St. SteVen said:
St. SteVen said:
That's a great question. Thanks.
It would mean that those in hell were predestined by God to end up there.
(for the crime of not being among the predestined Elect)

So, does God indeed predestine humans for destruction?
(retaining only those He elected and predestined for life) ???

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If we read the New Testament wherein Jesus explains to his Disciples,students,why he only taught his ministry using parables, the answer would be, yes.

You've heard it said,scriptures must harmonize if we seek to make a cogent point regarding a particular teaching from God?

And I agree that makes sense.

If first we accept God's qualities of Sovereignty, Dominion over his creation,then as he tells us,all things occur according to his will and plan.

When he said he's made vessels,us,for the day of destruction, do we accept that?

He created Hell,so we're told in the New Testament,to receive Satan and his angels when it is time.
Then,we are told,God amended that plan so to have Hell to receive unrepentant human sinners too.

Why?

Playing Angel's advocate again, our fallen human nature we are born with makes us also part of God's will and plan.

We are damned in our beginning.God opened Hell to receive us after he'd made it to first receive Satan and his angels.

The Old Testament verses tell us everyone is responsible for their own sins. The fathers sins will not pass to the son.

Yet,the whole human race is born to be condemned as sinners first because of the sin of the first man,father of humanity, by which sin entered the world.

If sin entered this world because of Adams transgression in not obeying God regarding the tree of knowledge,this means sin pre-existed this creation.

Sin is not an issue where there is no law,according to Scripture.

God's first law was uttered when he commanded Adam. Thou shalt not eat of the fruit of the tree if the knowledge of good and evil.

If Adam and Eve were to remain innocent,per Omniscient Gods will and plan,why plant a forbidden tree in the middle of God's garden of Eden?

And notice? The serpent knew of God's law regarding that tree. Which is how he could tempt innocence there.

If we accept Jesus is the lamb slain before the foundation,creation,of the world and for the sins of the world,then that tells us the fall was predestined.

Why slay the sacrificial lamb before a world that would fall into sin was created?

St. SteVen · Wednesday at 4:34 AM

AngelicArcher said:
If we read the New Testament wherein Jesus explains to his Disciples,students,why he only taught his ministry using parables, the answer would be, yes.

You've heard it said,scriptures must harmonize if we seek to make a cogent point regarding a particular teaching from God?

And I agree that makes sense.

If first we accept God's qualities of Sovereignty, Dominion over his creation,then as he tells us,all things occur according to his will and plan.

When he said he's made vessels,us,for the day of destruction, do we accept that?

He created Hell,so we're told in the New Testament,to receive Satan and his angels when it is time.
Then,we are told,God amended that plan so to have Hell to receive unrepentant human sinners too.

Why?

Playing Angel's advocate again, our fallen human nature we are born with makes us also part of God's will and plan.

We are damned in our beginning.God opened Hell to receive us after he'd made it to first receive Satan and his angels.

The Old Testament verses tell us everyone is responsible for their own sins. The fathers sins will not pass to the son.

Yet,the whole human race is born to be condemned as sinners first because of the sin of the first man,father of humanity, by which sin entered the world.

If sin entered this world because of Adams transgression in not obeying God regarding the tree of knowledge,this means sin pre-existed this creation.

Sin is not an issue where there is no law,according to Scripture.

God's first law was uttered when he commanded Adam. Thou shalt not eat of the fruit of the tree if the knowledge of good and evil.

If Adam and Eve were to remain innocent,per Omniscient Gods will and plan,why plant a forbidden tree in the middle of God's garden of Eden?

And notice? The serpent knew of God's law regarding that tree. Which is how he could tempt innocence there.

If we accept Jesus is the lamb slain before the foundation,creation,of the world and for the sins of the world,then that tells us the fall was predestined.

Why slay the sacrificial lamb before a world that would fall into sin was created?

What do you conclude from all of that?

Was God's plan for humankind to destroy the vast majority?
And to leave the matter unresolved while souls burn in hell forever? (to what end) ???
Or did God have a better plan for those created in His image?

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AngelicArcher · Wednesday at 11:30 AM

St. SteVen said:
What do you conclude from all of that?

Was God's plan for humankind to destroy the vast majority?
And to leave the matter unresolved while souls burn in hell forever? (to what end) ???
Or did God have a better plan for those created in His image?

I'm going from the Bible narrative itself.

I know of many Christians who debate in the same way. The narrative as presented in scripture.

That narrative tells us, of God ,who would know himself to be God, the power of and within all existence.

God created humans in his image and likeness.

Which is something many of us read in Scripture. Though I wonder how many of us consider what that is actually saying?

Created by God. In the image and likeness of God.

To consider that implication ,as many whom I know have done,consider reading those passages in the Old Testament wherein God kills people outright. And commands the Hebrews slaughter them.

Made in the image and likeness of God.

St. SteVen · Wednesday at 2:03 PM

AngelicArcher said:
To consider that implication ,as many whom I know have done,consider reading those passages in the Old Testament wherein God kills people outright. And commands the Hebrews slaughter them.

Facts that bring the book into question.
What do those facts declare about the character of God?
(a two-faced tyrant in need of anger therapy) ???

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Behold · Wednesday at 2:12 PM

St. SteVen said:
Facts that bring the book into question.

Good guess.

But at least you are always willing to try to deny the Bible or try to cast doubt on it... on a "chrisitan" forum, and in this way we can see the intent of your heart as well as your ministry.

See, one of the amzing things about the BIble is its God given ability to always highlight people like you.
Its a literal spiritual spotlight, and it has definitely unvelied and discovered you, as you are., and this will continue.

AngelicArcher · Wednesday at 3:52 PM

St. SteVen said:
Facts that bring the book into question.
What do those facts declare about the character of God?
(a two-faced tyrant in need of anger therapy) ???

It's hardwiring.
And, the fear paradigm coupled with.

Consider history. And how the Holy Book came to exist.
It was preceded by the manufacture,by men, of the canon.
Consider Constantine and his convening area Bishops for his Nicene Council.

The first Council of many to come after.

If God appears in writing to be of the human personality that exhibits and acts out in jealousy,anger,vindictiveness, homicidal rage that includes all 'cides', homicide,matricide,patricide, infanticide, and global Holocaust,is that Sovereignty?

Or,is that man compiling a narrative gleaned from more ancient sources? When Jews today will tell you, our Old Testament in our Bible is not their Old Testament from their earlier tradition.

God is absolute. Yeshuah is The Word,God, made flesh who dwelt among us.

In the beginning fear of God actually read as respect and humility before God.

Jesus told us the truth. You just have to seek it and ye shall find.

And jmo, Behold is baiting you so to report you.

Ignore it.

If we can't debate what is admittedly a tome written by men because someone thinks God will be upset,they're not aware of our God.

Not our problem.

St. SteVen · Wednesday at 8:05 PM

AngelicArcher said:
If we can't debate what is admittedly a tome written by men because someone thinks God will be upset,they're not aware of our God.

Not our problem.

Agree.

Where did the Bible come from? - Shot out of a canon

The purpose of this topical thread is to discuss where the Bible came from. I keep encountering forum members that seem to have no clue, or at least some misconceptions about the origins, history, issues and substance of the scriptures. I invite others to share their knowledge on the...

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Does Christian Universalism deny the justice of God?

AngelicArcher

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St. SteVen

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AngelicArcher

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St. SteVen

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Behold

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AngelicArcher

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St. SteVen

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Where did the Bible come from? - Shot out of a canon

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