Do we still need a "church"?

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Grailhunter

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most Churches today have coffee shops, bookstore, massive stages, large rooms, photo op sections, gatherings/social events, high production plays and worship, state of the art media, and sermons are stories of the pastors life, etc.

where is the sitting to hear the word of God, understanding the meaning, looking to know the character /qualities of God?

I would say that most churches do not have all that and even if they do they can have wonderful sermons and praise and worship services. The big churches have something for all the members of family. Baby setting, gyms for fitness, courts for basketball and volleyball, and cafes and big dinner halls. Sunday Schools for age groups, home stury groups. Picnics and Bible Camps, fishing and boating trips. Activities throughout the week and holiday plays. That is all up to you.

And there is nothing wrong with smaller churches. I have done both and enjoy both. Either way Christianity and Christians should be a part of your life, more than an occasional Sunday visit. Christianity is more than a social group to just say you are Christian.
 
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Hey You!

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I have left a local church due and then left another one 4 years later. There are several reasons why but it all comes to one thing. They were not aligned with God's word. Entertainment and membership (numbers) became more important than teaching the truth of God's Word.
I teach 2 Bible Study classes and not sure how to expand those groups now that I am not attending a local church.

Does anyone have a similar experience or advice?
I would say, as long as you have Orthodox Christian beliefs; keep up your Bible Studies. If you find a new Church, see if your Bible Studies are compatible with their Bible Studies. The only way to grow, is to invite people...
 
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amigo de christo

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I've had women throw themselves at me, knowing I'm married, wearing a ring and met my wife. This is over 40 yrs in ministry. But it's happened at every church I've served in. It's the same over and over, when I hold my ring finger up and say you understand I'm married, right? This generation is got some problems with how they were raised.
This generation , IN large , knows only one god and will follow only what that god desires .
The god of their mirror and by golly if they want to sleep around , WELL THEY WILL SLEEP around .
I have noticed quite a bit who lip the lovely NAME OF JESUS THE CHRIST
who sure seem to claim to love HIM and yet sure seem to love SIN . there be a serious problem .
This is the generation of MY TRUTH IS TRUTH and TRUTH IS RELATIVE and what i think is true be true
and what another believes is true is true , SO LONG as what the other believes
DONT get in the way of their sin , HEY THEY FINE WITH IT . that is this generation in large .
 

BarneyFife

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This generation , IN large , knows only one god and will follow only what that god desires .
The god of their mirror and by golly if they want to sleep around , WELL THEY WILL SLEEP around .
I have noticed quite a bit who lip the lovely NAME OF JESUS THE CHRIST
who sure seem to claim to love HIM and yet sure seem to love SIN . there be a serious problem .
This is the generation of MY TRUTH IS TRUTH and TRUTH IS RELATIVE and what i think is true be true
and what another believes is true is true , SO LONG as what the other believes
DONT get in the way of their sin , HEY THEY FINE WITH IT . that is this generation in large .

Honestly, you're like the proverbial old man shaking his walking stick at the clouds. Don't you see anything good in anything besides your hobby horse?
 

amigo de christo

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Honestly, you're like the proverbial old man shaking his walking stick at the clouds. Don't you see anything good in anything besides your hobby horse?
That has become the problem with this generation , they always try to find good in evil .
I see only deadly dangers in allowing evil and leaven to remain within the church .
They grab ahold of a false love hobby horse and they shake that stick at everyone who tries to warn and expose any sin and error .
It aint working barney . UNLESS our goal is total destruction for the churches .
Gone , for the most part , are the grave men who actually did love the people and thus did all for their good .
 
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Lizbeth

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Best answer so far. This is the reason for churches. I've heard it taught on before and we all know and even quote sometimes Hebrews 10:25

25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching..../KJV

But what does it really mean? What is exhorting one another mean? Easy. All you have to do is to continue reading where v25 leaves off!

Hebrews 10:25-31
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God..../KJV !!

And to be clear on Exhort...
"strongly encourage or urge (someone) to do something."

What are we supposed to exhort each other to do while we are assembled?!
Well to worship God of course! That is the main reason for churches to exist! So that the people can assemble themselves together with others for a corporate worship of the Lord! Teaching is also to be done in church thru the reading of the scriptures.

You see, when a believer does something in the Lord, it can be a powerful thing if done in spirit and in truth...so what does corporate worship do that a single Believer can not? Good question! I'm glad you asked. It gives a body of Believers one voice in worship of God...!!!

And I'm not sure of what happens spiritually, but I suspect there is a sort of geometric progression and multiplication of voice unto God, so corporate worship is very very important. So much so that God likes it so much, that He even put it in scripture for us to learn!

That said, I admit I have no church per se. I haven't been to church in a few ears now.
I came here to this location in 2018 and started working here in my trade for a company that I think serviced all the churches in this town (facetiously, but a lot!) So I got in a lot of different churches and consequently, got invited to services many times. And I went to the services. It feels like I have attended services in most of the churches in my county and some of them I returned to several times because I liked them. So why didn't I become a member in any of them?

Well, when I lived in Colorado, I didn't really choose my church. My church chose me! I went there to make a repair on something and after I was done, I was leaving and thought hmm, I'll step into the sanctuary and take a peek, maybe I'll attend next Sunday? As soon as I stepped into the sanctuary, the Holy Spirit fell on me hard. It was a great feeling! And I thought, yeah, this is the church that is my church!

That has never happened for me in an Ohio church. So I didn't feel drawn to join any of them, even tho they spoke truth (for the most part) and all the people were friendly. Besides some of the ones I did like, were teaching what I learned years before, so I wasn't really getting anything new for myself. A good message for new Believers, but I had no place there. No draw. Which shouldn't matter if I am there to worship the Lord I understand, but I was getting so much new info on Youtube teaching videos...that there was (and is) my draw.

I've even been to a couple home church services which were ok but mediocre at best, and the distance involved to attend! Whoa. Why do they always live so far from me!

Now I live alone, and I have eyeballed my house as being very suitable for a home church. But even tho I have plenty of room in this house to do such a thing, I am not fully prepared to start having home services. I have ample floor space, but zero folding chairs! I bought a case of Bibles on sale supposedly but they turned out to be very small print. Too small in my mind. I have enough wafers and wine for a Communion service for a small crowd of people! But I'm not organized to have a home service. I have never written a sermon to speak. I'm not drawn to being behind a microphone in front of a bunch of people (Yikes!) and I've never worked in a church before to know how it is run. All the home church services that I've ever attended all are basically a Bible Study group. Which is good, but not the fellowship that scripture speaks of...corporate worship.
I don't even have any hymn books!

...??? So I dunno. That idea languishes while I try to collect some things that I need. Besides, I don't know hardly anyone in this town! Like two people only, and only one of them is a Believer. I need a dozen folding chairs and you can't use plastic chairs for this sort of thing. Any suitable metal folding chair is like $40 to $80 bucks now! So much for that idea! Even for only one dozen, lol!
Maybe you could be the host providing the space and hospitality, while others could lead and facilitate the meetings? Others can also contribute to practical necessities like chairs as well.
 

amigo de christo

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I would say that most churches do not have all that and even if they do they can have wonderful sermons and praise and worship services. The big churches have something for all the members of family. Baby setting, gyms for fitness, courts for basketball and volleyball, and cafes and big dinner halls. Sunday Schools for age groups, home stury groups. Picnics and Bible Camps, fishing and boating trips. Activities throughout the week and holiday plays. That is all up to you.

And there is nothing wrong with smaller churches. I have done both and enjoy both. Either way Christianity and Christians should be a part of your life, more than an occasional Sunday visit. Christianity is more than a social group to just say you are Christian.
So long as no sin is accepted
and all sin and error is corrected
And biblical truth is taught and GOD IS GLORIFIED AND HONORED
then I say PRAISE BE TO THE LORD .
But i sure dont see this in many places .
What we all need to realize is one simple truth .
IF anything anyone does or says or teaches DOES NOT HONOR GOD , THEN IT NEEDS TO Cease being done , taught or accepted .
THIS is gonna mean that all sin is gonna have to be exposed and the biblical pattern
for correction IS GONNA have to be applied . That do mean not even eating with such . Now we gots to do
what the true ones instructed , or the churches will continue to fall and spiral right down hill .
How about we put a bible into the hand of every man woman and child and do so very fast .
Time to make biblical doctrine TAUGHT AGAIN . yeah i was about to say great again , CEPT ITS ALWAYS BEEN GREAT
its just most dont teach it .
 
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amigo de christo

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Maybe you could be the host providing the space and hospitality, while others could lead and facilitate the meetings? Others can also contribute to practical necessities like chairs as well.
What worries me the most
is that the absolute necessity is not actually being taught or praticed , kept and honored in a lot of places .
TRUTH has been cast down and the words of GOD the many have cast behind them .
One thing this wee flea knows is
THAT WONT BODE WELL ON THE DAY OF THE LORD . Not at all for all who did so and kept company
with those who did so . UNITY is GOOD , FELLOWSHIP IS GOOD
BUT NOT IF TRUTH is cast aside in order to keep UNITY and FELLOWSHIP . Sister
things are not lookin good and have not been looking good for a real long time now .
 

amigo de christo

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Just curious....Did Apostle Paul produce business model churches? How where they different?
How were they different . Now this is the RIGHT question my friend .
Paul never changed the TRUTH he taught IN ORDER TO GET A BIGGER INCOME .
THEY DO . THEY DO .
they always conform and change to the world , cause its a business to them , ITS NOT ABOUT GOD to them
tis about survival in this world . AND its been their down fall for years .
Paul , his focus was about saving souls and feeding the saved TRUTH so as they could be built up and edified .
Their focus is on GROWING THE NUMBERS and in order to do so THEY HAD TO ADAPT TO THE CHANGING TIMES .
YOU SEE paul did what HE DID for THE GLORY OF GOD and for the GOOD of humanity
THEY DO as they do to KEEP A JOB and the INCOME flowing in , AND IT SURE DONT HONOR GOD or work to the good
of those who sit under them either . THAT IS THE MAIN DIFFERENCE .
AND its a deadly one too .
Because when the income becomes the focus , I PROMISE the message becomes A message that PLEASES MAN
in order to get more numbers and to keep people paying them . its all a sell out my friend .
 

TheOneHeLoves

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I would say that most churches do not have all that and even if they do they can have wonderful sermons and praise and worship services. The big churches have something for all the members of family. Baby setting, gyms for fitness, courts for basketball and volleyball, and cafes and big dinner halls. Sunday Schools for age groups, home stury groups. Picnics and Bible Camps, fishing and boating trips. Activities throughout the week and holiday plays. That is all up to you.

And there is nothing wrong with smaller churches. I have done both and enjoy both. Either way Christianity and Christians should be a part of your life, more than an occasional Sunday visit. Christianity is more than a social group to just say you are Christian.
I have Christians in my life and all most all my conversations outside of work are God centered. I don't feel that attending a church building
How were they different . Now this is the RIGHT question my friend .
Paul never changed the TRUTH he taught IN ORDER TO GET A BIGGER INCOME .
THEY DO . THEY DO .
they always conform and change to the world , cause its a business to them , ITS NOT ABOUT GOD to them
tis about survival in this world . AND its been their down fall for years .
Paul , his focus was about saving souls and feeding the saved TRUTH so as they could be built up and edified .
Their focus is on GROWING THE NUMBERS and in order to do so THEY HAD TO ADAPT TO THE CHANGING TIMES .
YOU SEE paul did what HE DID for THE GLORY OF GOD and for the GOOD of humanity
THEY DO as they do to KEEP A JOB and the INCOME flowing in , AND IT SURE DONT HONOR GOD or work to the good
of those who sit under them either . THAT IS THE MAIN DIFFERENCE .
AND its a deadly one too .
Because when the income becomes the focus , I PROMISE the message becomes A message that PLEASES MAN
in order to get more numbers and to keep people paying them . its all a sell out my friend .
true! I get asked how much for my Bible Study group. WHAT? IT cost time & attention but not money. I want to share with all who will listen about God. sad that all these Pastors want to write books to make money.
 

Grailhunter

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I have Christians in my life and all most all my conversations outside of work are God centered. I don't feel that attending a church building
I don't feel that attending a church building........?
Is that the end of the statement.......?
 

TheOneHeLoves

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I don't feel that attending a church building........?
Is that the end of the statement.......?
No, did not mean to send, I wonder if this happened when I lost power due to wind yesterday.

Attending a church building is not spending time with God, brothers/sisters, nor even mean you are worshipping God.

Jesus wants us to believe in all who He says He is and trust in Him. Love Him and Serve Him and others. No building is needed, no clubs are needed, no attendance tracking is needed, no denomination membership is needed.

I know who much I am sick/saddened by seeing/knowing people who go to church on Sunday yet every day they are living for themselves/the world. Slapping a cross or Bible verse on something does not make you child of God.

God is grieved over the sinful ways of man. Everyone needs to thank Him for His faithfulness, patience and mercy.
 

Grailhunter

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No, did not mean to send, I wonder if this happened when I lost power due to wind yesterday.

Attending a church building is not spending time with God, brothers/sisters, nor even mean you are worshipping God.

Jesus wants us to believe in all who He says He is and trust in Him. Love Him and Serve Him and others. No building is needed, no clubs are needed, no attendance tracking is needed, no denomination membership is needed.

I know who much I am sick/saddened by seeing/knowing people who go to church on Sunday yet every day they are living for themselves/the world. Slapping a cross or Bible verse on something does not make you child of God.

God is grieved over the sinful ways of man. Everyone needs to thank Him for His faithfulness, patience and mercy.

I am sorry I missed that scripture….Whatever you do, do not go to church, they are mean there.
One thousand and one reasons not to obey the scriptures.

Christ and the Apostles went to the temple and synagogues and church. Sometimes risking their lives to do so, but today you nearly have to use a cattle prod to get Christians to go to church.

For people to call themselves Christians and not go to church it is like a guy calling himself a race car driver because he has a steering wheel on his Lazy Boy.

What can you say about a Christian that does want to gather with other Christians and worship the Lord and sing praises to the Lord and participate in Christian activities and recreation? If there is something inside of you that you do not want to do these things, something is serious wrong and you should be worried. It is not enough to go to church…..something is wrong if you do not want to do it.
Save your thousand and one reasons for not going to church for Christ.

Church buildings for the most part did not exist until after 313 AD.
When you read church in your translation, the word actually means congregation or assembly. But after they started building them they were very popular and the church of ones or hermit Christians were considered occultic because they did not want to be around Christians and this has a history that leads into the witch hunts....

The gathering of Christians to study the scriptures and praise and worship the Lord and break bread and fellowship. So whether it is the First Baptist Church of Harmony or George Wilson’s house it is mostly the same. And I recommend both. But you cannot convince me that you are serious about Christianity unless it is intregal part of your life and you fellowship and participate. But you are lucky, you do not have to convince me, you have to convince Christ.
 
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Behold

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I have left a local church due and then left another one 4 years later. membership (numbers) became more important than teaching the truth of God's Word.
I teach 2 Bible Study classes and not sure how to expand those groups now that I am not attending a local church.

Im curious about something.
You said that you left your church(s) for 2 reasons, with the 2nd being. "membership became more important then teaching truth".

So, now you are concerned about getting more members, in your group.

Ok then.....how it that different then what your 2 churches were doing regarding them trying to get more members?
 

Eternally Grateful

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We are the church

the church is not a building, it is a family

God did not mean for us to be alone. Sadly much have made the church into something not intended. They met in homes. They were communities. They lived together shared everythign together. And most importantly, did God together

I so wish we could get back tot his today
 
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TheOneHeLoves

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I am sorry I missed that scripture….Whatever you do, do not go to church, they are mean there.
One thousand and one reasons not to obey the scriptures.

Christ and the Apostles went to the temple and synagogues and church. Sometimes risking their lives to do so, but today you nearly have to use a cattle prod to get Christians to go to church.

For people to call themselves Christians and not go to church it is like a guy calling himself a race car driver because he has a steering wheel on his Lazy Boy.

What can you say about a Christian that does want to gather with other Christians and worship the Lord and sing praises to the Lord and participate in Christian activities and recreation? If there is something inside of you that you do not want to do these things, something is serious wrong and you should be worried. It is not enough to go to church…..something is wrong if you do not want to do it.
Save your thousand and one reasons for not going to church for Christ.

Church buildings for the most part did not exist until after 313 AD.
When you read church in your translation, the word actually means congregation or assembly. But after they started building them they were very popular and the church of ones or hermit Christians were considered occultic because they did not want to be around Christians and this has a history that leads into the witch hunts....

The gathering of Christians to study the scriptures and praise and worship the Lord and break bread and fellowship. So whether it is the First Baptist Church of Harmony or George Wilson’s house it is mostly the same. And I recommend both. But you cannot convince me that you are serious about Christianity unless it is intregal part of your life and you fellowship and participate. But you are lucky, you do not have to convince me, you have to convince Christ.
The closer I get to Christ Jesus, the more of an enemy I have become at "churches."

I read the Bible, I pray and hear from God all day long everyday, I having been teaching two Bible Study classes (1 for high school girls and 1 for adult woman) for over 5 years, and I used to lead youth Bible study at a baptist church 3 times a week for 10 years.

I don't ever tell someone not to go to church or be involved. what I want is churches to teach the Bible, call out sin, make disciples, and point everyone to Christ Jesus. The problem I see is that most churches are teaching how to live (application) but obedience without true believe/trust/faith/love of God is leading to them to hell. This is why people are falling away, church attendance is not ever going to save you. Yes being in a church can be good but that is not what a relationship with God is supposed to me. Why do you think God allowed the temple to be destroyed, Jesus says in John 4:23 "but the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship The Father in spirit and truth, for The Father is seeking such to worship Him. God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth"


The disciples went to temples to convert the Jews to follow Jesus. Matt 28:19- Jesus did not say go and tell people to go to temple or churches, No He said to make disciples!

I listen to sermons/Bible teachings and only listen to worship music. I give, serve, teach and preach and I continue to mentor and counsel people and I don't take a penny from anyone. I don't owe you any explanation but stop assuming that I don't have a relationship with God. My whole life is centered on Him. I miss the mark but my works don't and won't save me, only His work saves.
 
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marks

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what I want is churches to teach the Bible, call out sin, make disciples, and point everyone to Christ Jesus.
There are churches like that. I'm attending one now. You can see the difference right away in the spiritual maturity of those there. I feel like I'm a freshman again!

And that's one reason we need church, as a connection to many people whom we can mentor and be mentored by, as God makes the connections He intends for us that we may grow, not individually, but as a family, together.

Much love!
 

TheOneHeLoves

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Im curious about something.
You said that you left your church(s) for 2 reasons, with the 2nd being. "membership became more important then teaching truth".

So, now you are concerned about getting more members, in your group.

Ok then.....how it that different then what your 2 churches were doing regarding them trying to get more members?
several women in the group have invited their friends, family, coworkers to the group over the years. Some have then been led to start their own study groups, I purpose is to share and point to and help reveal God to them.

I don't charge and I don't do events to bring in people. I don't cater to be tolerant of other beliefs. Churches that I have been apart of have allowed gay(practicing)/JW/LDS/etc serve and lead in the church, would host events with worldly music, wouldn't call out sin to be inclusive, and as part of being a top volunteer leader eventually, I came to hear the way the Pastors would talk and act behind closed doors. the staff members were glorifying the lead Pastor what I felt was than they did Jesus.

Asking for ways to spread the word of my group is not wrong. Paul wanted to go to Asia but the God kept him from going. I pray to be led by the Spirit in all that I do.
 

TheOneHeLoves

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There are churches like that. I'm attending one now. You can see the difference right away in the spiritual maturity of those there. I feel like I'm a freshman again!

And that's one reason we need church, as a connection to many people whom we can mentor and be mentored by, as God makes the connections He intends for us that we may grow, not individually, but as a family, together.

Much love!
I understand and respect your viewpoint.

God has blessed me with a great community. Reaching out/fellowship with my groups, my own reading, studying and prep, 2 hr Bible studies twice a week, working 3 paid jobs and still finding time to do house stuff there is not much more that I can take on.
 
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Behold

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Asking for ways to spread the word of my group is not wrong.

But what you posted is something different. @TheOneHeLoves

You posted that you were trying to find ways to get more members into your groups.

So, if you are trying to get more members, and yet the "2nd" reason you gave for leaving 2 Churches is because they were also trying to get more members.......... then how is it that they are wrong and you are not just like them?