Difficulty Reconciling

Behold · Mar 31, 2025

Nancy said:
John 15:1-6
“I am the true vine, and My Father is the keeper of the vineyard. He cuts off every branch in Me that bears no fruit, and every branch that does bear fruit, He prunes to make it even more fruitful. / You are already clean because of the word I have spoken to you".

This is a symbolic verse you posted.
Humans are not Branches and symbolic verses must never be read as if they are literal.
So, what God does is, he finds those issues in a believer, that are carnal strongholds, and he deals with this, until its not longer an issue.
We can think of this as "cutting" or "pruning" or "Chastening ".... according to Hebrews 12:6

Nancy said:
Matthew 24:13
"But the one who endures to the end will be saved."

"Endures to the end of what"?

Notice the verse does not say?

So, this is Jesus speaking Prophetically about the 2nd half of the Great Trib.
The context is.......that all who are found in the Grt Trib, when the "abomination of desolation" happens.......then whoever is there, and is a Christian,( and all these missed the Rapture), and became Christians IN the Trib.........so, all who are there in that 2nd half of the 7 yr part of the Trib that is the Great Trib..( when the Hell on earth is loosed, )they all have to "endure to the end" of this time to go to heaven.
That is not the born again who are on earth right now.....as we wont be there.

Nancy said:
2 Peter 2:20-22
"For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”

And that verse says nothing about losing salvation.
Its talking about a person who is "and some seed fell on hard ground" and when trouble came, they had no root, and fell away.""

See that? That is not a Christian.........so this verse you posted is not talking to the born again.

Its a fact that thousands of people went to Hell today.....and are now in Hell and here is what they are thinking..

"OMG.......i KNEW it was true........I KNEW TO BELIEVE IN JESUS 5-10-30 yrs ago............but i decided to WAIT"...

See that?
That is a sad eternity, the worst, because so many people right now KNOW that Jesus is real, and they need to be saved, and they wait, because.. ."well, im not ready".....>"im still young and want to have fun"....and then they die, and that is so sad as they KNEW to trust, and WAITED.

A.) Don't Wait

Nancy said:
Revelation 3:5
"The one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father and before angels."

Well, all the born again are already "in the Lambs book of life" and we are already "in Christ'.. "one with God"... "seated in heavenly places".

And who is it that overcomes the world? Its everyone who has trusted in Christ and are born again, as we are in the world but not of it.

Nancy said:
Hebrews 10:26
"For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,"

This verse is talking to Christ Rejecting Jews (Same as Acts 28:28)......and the Apostle is explaining to them......."Listen.. Jesus is the only Sacrifice, and if you reject Him, as you are doing. "WILLFULLY"< then there is no other Sacrifice available for you".. As He is the ONLY Sacrifice and you are "willfully" rejecting your Messiah.

Nancy said:
1 Corinthians 9:27
"But I discipline my body and keep it under control, lest after preaching to others I myself should be
disqualified."

Well, all the born again, are already "in Christ" and "one with God" and are "made Righteous".
So, we are already Qualified and Justified and Forgiven.
Now, it can be that a person becomes a backslider as a MINISTER... as Paul is talking about disqualification from the Ministry.

So, "Keeping His body under control" means to not give in to the fleshly lusts.........dont LIVE THERE., as a Minister has to be at the highest level, always, and maintain this.......we have to exist beyond the full control of carnal desires, or we are disqualified from the Ministry.
This is a "fallen preacher".....a "scandal" you hear about on CNN.

Nancy said:
Revelation 2:10
"Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and for ten days you will have tribulation. Be faithful unto death, and I will give you the crown of life."

That is the Great Trib, when the Anti-Christ is going to force everyone to join his Global monetary economic system, and if you wont "take that mark".. then you are going to be imprisoned, or martyr'd........and that is not anyone who is a Christian on this earth, right now.
Those are "tribulation saints", only.

Nancy said:
You and @GracePeace simply have difference of interpretation.

And that is fine, but personal insults are not.
He has to mature a bit, and find a way to argue his unfortunate theology, and avoid the personal insults, when he finds that he's not able to prove his POV.
See, when he is engaged with someone, and they are not agreeing with Him, an in fact he is unable to prove his point, then he will say they are "ignorant".
So, that is a personal insult, and he needs to learn to control his continual tendency to do that...when he understands that he can't deal equally, with the person on a theological level.

GracePeace · Mar 31, 2025

Hey You! said:
Olive Wreath ~ by ReverendRV * July 28

1stCorinthians 9:24 KJV; Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.

The Olive Wreath is known as the ‘Kotinos’ was the prize for the winner at the ancient Olympic Games. It was an olive branch from the wild olive tree ‘Olea Oleaster’ that grew at Olympia; It was intertwined to form a circle or a horse-shoe. According to Pausanias it was introduced by Heracles as a prize for the winning runner, to honor his father Zeus. In the ancient Olympic Games there were no gold, silver, or bronze medals; there was only one winner per event. Olive wreaths were given out during the 2004 Summer Olympics in Athens in honor of the ancient tradition, because the Games were being held in Greece. ~ The Greeks had a rule; or a Law, that only the winner of the race was the victor. In our society we have a tendency to give all of our children a trophy when they compete, even if they sat on the bench; not so in the original Olympic Games! When a victor won the race he was fitted with a Wreath which was placed on his head like a crown. The Roman Senate let Julius Caeser always wear a Laurel Wreath, instead of only at his political victories. It became his crowning moment, and he would always be recognized as a victorious leader…

Saint Paul goes on to tell us something about the Spiritual race we must run in life, in order to be at Peace with God; the victors crown is perishable. Paul says that our good deeds are temporary! To the victor goes the spoils; and indeed, like the olive wreath, the reward of the Law spoils. The Bible describes men like the grass of the field, which is cut down and soon withers. ~ The wages of Sin is death. Have you ever disobeyed your parents? The Bible says this is the first Commandment with a promise; to honor your parents brings the promise of long life. Have your parents spanked you? Not keeping this Commandment is one of ten reasons that we, like grass, are cut down to death. The bad news is that because of this, you have stumbled in your spiritual race and you won’t be able to make up the difference to win! Another has won it; and the race? It is finished!

The Good News is that the person who won the race is the Lord Jesus Christ! Why is this good news? It is because he does not Covet the prize as if he would keep it only for himself! Jesus had an advantage in the race and it was that he had never Sinned; he never stumbled during the race to keep God’s Law. ~ For God so loved the world, he gave his only begotten Son to die on a Cross, that whoever should believe on him would not perish but have everlasting life. Jesus is the Way, the Truth and the ‘Life’; no one comes to God except through Faith in the risen Lord Jesus as their God and Savior. ~ The world gave Jesus a crown of thorns. But since he gives life to all he desires, he can also make the clippings of his reward alive; like Aaron’s staff which budded. Jesus will give you a crown, to show that you are the victor over death and Hell along with him. By Grace through Faith you may now enter into Heaven with him to rule and to reign instead of being cast into Hell…

Revelations 4:10 KJV; The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,

Thanks, I was hoping go focus on the verses raised in the OP, and on reconciling them.

GracePeace · Mar 31, 2025

Behold said:
Reader,

Jesus is Eternal Life...= Its Him.

This is why Jesus told us... "if you believe in me, i give unto you ETERNAL LIFE"...

And How does the Christian understand what that means........."to have it".

Its simple...

We understand that Eternal life is not a period of Time........its Jesus Himself.. and the born again are joined to Him, Spiritually.
So, when you are Joined to Jesus...(Spiritually).......and Jesus is Eternal Life.. then you are now Joined to Eternal life.

1+1 =2

This is why John says that """" You can KNOW that you have ETERNAL LIFE, and this life is IN His SON"..

So, Jesus is Eternal life and notice....= "CHRIST IN YOU.. the hope of Glory" (Glory is Heaven), .....and every born again CHRISTian is "IN Christ'.. and Jesus is : Eternal life.

Notice John 14:6.....>"I am THE WAY... and THE Truth, and THE LIFE">... "THE LIFE"... = Eternal Life., and Jesus who is Eternal life .. "Who came to give us Life and that more abundantly" is INSIDE every Born Again Christian.

So, that is how you KNOW, you have Eternal Life.

If you're not a Born Again Christian, then you dont have eternal life. You have this....... John 3:36

No, you're not getting to start a new conversation until you finish the old one, or else when I debunk you you'll just change topics again, thus defeating the entire purpose.

Hey You! · Mar 31, 2025

GracePeace said:
No, one seems to say "Upon believing, you have eternal life, and there are no other requirements that can be added", and the others, if memory serves, seem to say "As long as you are doing the things you're expected to do, good things youre commanded, you will have eternal life now and at the Judgment".

This reminds me of Pilgrim's Progress. Pilgrim got a Certificate to take with him on his journey; this symbolizes his Justification through Faith Alone. As he was going up a mountain, he stopped at a rest stop; then he continued up the mountain. He realized he was missing his Certification, so he went back to the rest stop; and it was still there...

Of course, there was more to his Progress than that. He had to cross a river to get to the Celestial City; and he was going under, until a friend helped him out. He had to Persevere along the Way...

Salvation is multi faceted but Justification is not. It's just the way it is. It's like Jesus being God and Man; both are True, it's just the way it is. Salvation is instantaneous; and a lifetime journey...

I should read Pilgrim's Progress again...

GracePeace · Mar 31, 2025

Hey You! said:
This reminds me of Pilgrim's Progress. Pilgrim got a Certificate to take with him on his journey; this symbolizes his Justification through Faith Alone. As he was going up a mountain, he stopped at a rest stop; then he continued up the mountain. He realized he was missing his Certification, so he went back to rest stop; and it was still there...

Of course, there was more to his Progress than that. He had to cross a river to get to the Celestial City; and he was going under; until a friend helped him out. He had to Persevere along the Way...

Salvation is multi faceted but Justification is not. It's just the way it is. It's like Jesus being God and Man, both are True. Salvation is instantaneous; and a lifetime journey...

I should read Pilgrim's Progress again...

Lol Thanks

Gottservant · Mar 31, 2025

I appreciate that you want to reconcile what you believe with what's written (OP), but I think you have to be prepared that you may not be able to, until the next life.

What you need to do is get on to the work that you love - you may not understand the meaning of salvation at all, but if you are in Heaven and you love the work, that you are shown, everything else will make sense.

Now that's faith, you have to believe it and trust it first, but in the end, it is more than enough.

GracePeace · Mar 31, 2025

Gottservant said:
I appreciate that you want to reconcile what you believe with what's written (OP), but I think you have to be prepared that you may not be able to, until the next life.

What you need to do is get on to the work that you love - you may not understand the meaning of salvation at all, but if you are in Heaven and you love the work, that you are shown, everything else will make sense.

Now that's faith, you have to believe it and trust it first, but in the end, it is more than enough.

Thanks

GracePeace · Mar 31, 2025

Gottservant said:
I appreciate that you want to reconcile what you believe with what's written (OP),

Clarification : I'm not looking to reconcile what I believe with what is written, but what is written with what is written (as a result of what is written, I had been uncertain, to this or that degree, what I was to conclude).

soberxp · Mar 31, 2025

GracePeace said:
2a. On the other hand, it seems like mere belief is not enough, but, at bare minimum, one must deny oneself/not indulge in sin to the point of confessing faith in Christ (by adding "confession" to "faith", the "faith" required cannot be defined as "faith alone", but "faith... plus...")....

John 12:42Nevertheless many even of the rulers believed in Him, but because of the Pharisees they were not confessing Him, for fear that they would be put out of the synagogue; 43for they loved the approval of men rather than the approval of God.

The Gospel of Matthew 10:33
But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

GracePeace · Apr 1, 2025

soberxp said:
The Gospel of Matthew 10:33
But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

I agree... but what does it mean to deny Christ? If Christ is represented by His Word, and if that Word is "If I believe, He promised me everlasting life, and nothing further may be asked of me", it may be that denying that Word is denying Christ. And maybe denying Christ in one's works, in that case, would be because of lack of faith, thus lack of grace (grace through faith) to live appropriately.

soberxp · Apr 1, 2025

GracePeace said:
I agree... but what does it mean to deny Christ? If Christ is represented by His Word, and if that Word is "If I believe, He promised me everlasting life, and nothing further may be asked of me", it may be that denying that Word is denying Christ. And maybe denying Christ in one's works, in that case, would be because of lack of faith, thus lack of grace (grace through faith) to live apprpriately.

Yes,your understanding is right.
There are a lot of situations, just like you said.

The Gospel of Matthew
7:21 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

7:22 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

7:23 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

7:24 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

But what I want to ask is what is the problem that troubles you in reconciling these verses.

I don't get the point of what you're trying to say.

GracePeace · Apr 1, 2025

soberxp said:
Yes,your understanding is right.
There are a lot of situations, just like you said.

The Gospel of Matthew
7:21 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

7:22 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

7:23 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

7:24 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

But what I want to ask is what is the problem that troubles you in reconciling these verses.

I don't get the point of what you're trying to say.

Well, this idea "if you believe, the matter is done and over with" seems contrary to "If you do the things God wants, you will be making the matter done and over with--if not, watch out."

soberxp · Apr 1, 2025

GracePeace said:
Well, this idea "if you believe, the matter is done and over with" seems contrary to "If you do the things God wants, you will be making the matter done and over with--if not, watch out."

Every important character in the Bible expresses a meaning of faith and obedience.

If I said that I believe you Jesus Christ, but never obedience to the teaching of him,then I was a liar,even sin.

GracePeace · Apr 1, 2025

soberxp said:
Yes,your understanding is right.
There are a lot of situations, just like you said.

The Gospel of Matthew
7:21 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

7:22 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

7:23 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

7:24 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

But what I want to ask is what is the problem that troubles you in reconciling these verses.

I don't get the point of what you're trying to say.

For me, it's beyond works or no works (the verses you cited mention doing), it's a question of motivation. I spent myself, before, in fasting, praying, and obeying as best as I could, what ever I believed I ought, but it seems like it wasn't enough, because my thought process was excepted to in prayer, as if I were trying to save myself, and as if I were trying to pay for my sins. It seemed as though I was supposed to obey, but only be motivated by love... but I just can't justify that (obey out of 100% pure love) based on what I read. I am motivated by the threats, and don't understand why that could be excepted to.

soberxp · Apr 1, 2025

GracePeace said:
For me, it's beyond works or no works (the verses you cited mention doing), it's a question of motivation. I spent myself, before, in fasting, praying, and obeying as best as I could, what ever I believed I ought, but it seems like it wasn't enough, because my thought process was excepted to in prayer, as if I were trying to save myself, and as if I were trying to pay for my sins. It seemed as though I was supposed to obey, but only be motivated by love... but I just can't justify that (obey out of 100% pure love) based on what I read. I am motivated by the threats, and don't understand why that could be excepted to.

Do you remember that God asked Abraham to sacrifice his son?
Emotionally speaking, this request of God seemed extremely unreasonable, but Abraham's faith fulfilled his obedience.or Abraham's obedience fulfilled his faith.

Although the New Testament only mentions his faith and believe, obedience is the main part, no matter how unreasonable God's request, just obey.

Revelation.
3:7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;

3:8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

.

GracePeace · Apr 1, 2025

soberxp said:
Do you remember that God asked Abraham to sacrifice his son?
Emotionally speaking, this request of God seemed extremely unreasonable, but Abraham's faith fulfilled his obedience.or Abraham's obedience fulfilled his faith.

Although the New Testament only mentions his faith and believe, obedience is the main part, no matter how unreasonable God's request, just obey.

Revelation.
3:7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;

3:8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

.

I understand where you're coming from, and that was the rule I lived by, but it wasn't enough--as far as loving and obeying only out of love, no fear, if there's nothing to fear, I find no reason to obey, and I'm not motivated by love only, that's just not how I grew up, and it's not what I read in Scripture, and I don't have that in me.

soberxp · Apr 1, 2025

GracePeace said:
I understand where you're coming from, and that was the rule I lived by, but it wasn't enough--as far as loving and obeying only out of love, no fear, if there's nothing to fear, I find no reason to obey, and I'm not motivated by love only, that's just not how I grew up, and it's not what I read in Scripture, and I don't have that in me.

I thought about this question, and finally my answer is, if one day, God judged me and said: Go to hell, leave me. I will only learn to obey God's word.

GracePeace · Apr 1, 2025

soberxp said:
I thought about this question, and finally my answer is, if one day, God judged me and said: Go to hell, leave me. I will only learn to obey God's word.

We all have our own way, I guess. God did have me be tortured in hell (in 2003), unfortunately, and I have not recovered, and doubt I ever will.

soberxp · Apr 1, 2025

GracePeace said:
We all have our own way, I guess. God did have me be tortured in hell (in 2003), unfortunately, and I have not recovered, and doubt I ever will.

Just keep it in mind, obey and obedience is the key the door never shut down.

This is my fear the lord God The Almighty.

Behold · Apr 1, 2025

GracePeace said:
No, you're not getting to start a new conversation until you finish the old one, or else when I debunk you you'll just change topics again, thus defeating the entire purpose.

Keep fooling yourself.
You've mastered it.

Difficulty Reconciling

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads