Did Jesus say that adultery is grounds for divorce? - Nope.

Runningman · Mar 25, 2025

St. SteVen said:
The position of the church and society at large is mistaken as to what Jesus was quoted as saying in the gospels. IMHO
Let's discuss.

Questions:
1) What did Jesus actually say?
2) Why did he say it?
3) If we got this wrong, where do we go from here?

The position of the church and society at large is that adultery (sexual immorality) is grounds for divorce.
And they will quote Jesus as an authority on this. But is Jesus being misquoted? Yes, I believe so.
The biggest problem is the disconnect we have with the culture that Jesus was speaking to.

The church teaches that the only grounds for divorce is adultery. (sexual immorality)
But that is not what Jesus actually said.

The basis for this teaching is found in Matthew 19:9
See the NIV translation below, taking note of verse 10 as well as verse 9. (at the very bottom of this post)
Then compare the KJV below that. Note the use of the word "fornication" which matches the NT Greek.

This makes a HUGE difference, especially when considering the cultural setting of the Israelites under the law.
Jesus was saying that the only grounds for divorce is fornication, which is sexual intercourse before marriage. (not after)
What does this mean? Both in the historical context and to the misinterpretation assigned by the church today. ???

For the Israelites, a bride's parents presented her as a virgin to her husband-to-be. The law of Moses made a provision for this.
If the husband-to-be discovered that he had been given a bride that was not a virgin, he could divorce her. (for fornication)
Unfortunately, some new husbands were making false claims in order to divorce their new brides. The fornication loophole.
Parents were allowed to challenge this claim if it was false. See Deuteronomy 22:16-18

Therefore, the KJV translation is correct and the church got it wrong.
Jesus said there is no grounds for divorce except for fornication. Now read verse 10 again.
Better not to marry? Indeed. Not if you have ANY plans to divorce.

Matthew 19:8-10 NIV
Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning.
9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”
10 The disciples said to him, “If this is the situation between a husband and wife, it is better not to marry.”

--- COMPARE ---

Matthew 19:8-10 KJV
He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives:
but from the beginning it was not so.
9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication,
and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.
10 His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry.

/

On the other hand, the things that constitute a marriage are "leaving one's parents" and "becoming one flesh" which is the same thing that people who fornicate do. The line between "pre-marital" sex and consummating a marriage actually quite gray from a Biblical standpoint.

St. SteVen · Mar 25, 2025

Runningman said:
On the other hand, the things that constitute a marriage are "leaving one's parents" and "becoming one flesh" which is the same thing that people who fornicate do. The line between "pre-marital" sex and consummating a marriage actually quite gray from a Biblical standpoint.

The point of the topic OP is to question the position of the church on the grounds for divorce based on what they claim Jesus said.
They fail to understand the difference between fornication and adultery AND the Jewish law surrounding a non-virgin bride.
Jesus wasn't promoting divorce on the basis of adultery. He was condemning divorce except in the case of a non-virgin bride.

[

Grailhunter · Mar 25, 2025

Runningman said:
The line between "pre-marital" sex and consummating a marriage actually quite gray from a Biblical standpoint.

You could not be more wrong. Up until the Protestants made church wedding ceremonies a requirement to be married in the 16th century, a couple having sex was how marriages were formed. All through the scriptures this was how it was done. No biblical requirement for a wedding ceremony to be married.

Runningman said:
On the other hand, the things that constitute a marriage are "leaving one's parents" and "becoming one flesh" which is the same thing that people who fornicate do.

Fornication has nothing to do with Christianity. It is a non-biblical cliché that was formulated in the 4th century. The word fornication does not appear in the scriptures. It is one of those clichés that has caused theological false beliefs and completely false in relation to the reality of how marriages are formed.

Runningman · Mar 25, 2025

St. SteVen said:
The point of the topic OP is to question the position of the church on the grounds for divorce based on what they claim Jesus said.
They fail to understand the difference between fornication and adultery AND the Jewish law surrounding a non-virgin bride.
Jesus wasn't promoting divorce on the basis of adultery. He was condemning divorce except in the case of a non-virgin bride.

[

In light of the Jewish law concerning non-virgin brides nothing much changes from my previous comment. The only guideline regarding a wedding ceremony in the Bible is simply "becoming one flesh" which is just a euphemism for sex.

Runningman · Mar 25, 2025

Grailhunter said:
You could not be more wrong. Up until the Protestants made church wedding ceremonies a requirement to be married in the 16th century, a couple having sex was how marriages were formed. All through the scriptures this was how it was done. No biblical requirement for a wedding ceremony to be married.

Fornication has nothing to do with Christianity. It is a non-biblical cliché that was formulated in the 4th century. The word fornication does not appear in the scriptures. It is one of those clichés that has caused theological false beliefs and completely false in relation to the reality of how marriages are formed.

I just base my commentary on the Bible. If I have missed something regarding marriage requirements please let me know.

Grailhunter · Mar 25, 2025

Runningman said:
I just base my commentary on the Bible. If I have missed something regarding marriage requirements please let me know.

You my find the word wedding in a bible but not in the actual scriptures. No requirement for a wedding.
Fornication is another word you will not find in the scriptures.....for one thing it is a 4th century Latin word that does not represent the scriptures.

Runningman · Mar 25, 2025

Grailhunter said:
You my find the word wedding in a bible but not in the actual scriptures. No requirement for a wedding.
Fornication is another word you will not find in the scriptures.....for one thing it is a 4th century Latin word that does not represent the scriptures.

I think we basically agree as far as I can tell.

Fred J · Mar 27, 2025

St. SteVen said:
The point of the topic OP is to question the position of the church on the grounds for divorce based on what they claim Jesus said.
They fail to understand the difference between fornication and adultery AND the Jewish law surrounding a non-virgin bride.
Jesus wasn't promoting divorce on the basis of adultery. He was condemning divorce except in the case of a non-virgin bride.

[

In the same law also include 'adultery', Leviticus 20:10/Deuteronomy 22:22

i believe in the spirit and according to the wisdom given us by All Scripture = Holy Bible, Jesus meant both 'fornication' and 'adultery'.

Both are 'sexual immorality', one committed 'before marriage', while the other 'after marriage', on the ground of 'divorce'.

Also Jesus added that those who are able to forgive the 'guilty' and remain married, a great deed.

Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ.

St. SteVen · Mar 27, 2025

Fred J said:
In the same law also include 'adultery', Leviticus 20:10/Deuteronomy 22:22

Not as grounds for divorce.

Leviticus 20:10

10 “‘If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife—with the wife of his neighbor—
both the adulterer and the adulteress are to be put to death.

Deuteronomy 22:22

22 If a man is found sleeping with another man’s wife, both the man who slept with her
and the woman must die. You must purge the evil from Israel.

[

St. SteVen · Mar 27, 2025

Fred J said:
i believe in the spirit and according to the wisdom given us by All Scripture = Holy Bible, Jesus meant both 'fornication' and 'adultery'.

How can you substantiate that?
Playing the God card isn't enough.

[

St. SteVen · Mar 27, 2025

Fred J said:
Also Jesus added that those who are able to forgive the 'guilty' and remain married, a great deed.

Chapter and verse please. Good find if you have it. Thanks.

[

Fred J · Mar 28, 2025

St. SteVen said:
Not as grounds for divorce.

Leviticus 20:10
10 “‘If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife—with the wife of his neighbor—
both the adulterer and the adulteress are to be put to death.

Deuteronomy 22:22
22 If a man is found sleeping with another man’s wife, both the man who slept with her
and the woman must die. You must purge the evil from Israel.

[

Apparently not in the Old Testament, for Christ have 'fulfilled' and given and made with us the New Testament.

So you're speaking for Christ that there's no divorce on the ground of 'adultery', but only on the ground of 'fornication'?

To your Christ, believers can divorce their spouse if she's found to be 'not virgin' obviously, while men go scot free?

And, believers have no ground to divorce on the ground of 'adultery', hence continuously one's spouse go around committing 'sexual immorality' with other men and women?

Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ

Fred J · Mar 28, 2025

St. SteVen said:
How can you substantiate that?
Playing the God card isn't enough.

[

2 Peter 3:
15. And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16. As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scripture, unto their own destruction.

Likewise, playing the Pharisee card isn't enough.

Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ

St. SteVen · Mar 28, 2025

St. SteVen said:
How can you substantiate that?

Fred J said:
2 Peter 3:
15. And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16. As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scripture, unto their own destruction.

How does that substantiate this? (smoke and mirrors) ???

Fred J said:
i believe in the spirit and according to the wisdom given us by All Scripture = Holy Bible, Jesus meant both 'fornication' and 'adultery'.

[

Fred J · Mar 28, 2025

St. SteVen said:
Chapter and verse please. Good find if you have it. Thanks.

[

It is according to the wisdom given us based on All Scripture = Holy Bible.

Supporting scripture are the woman caught in adultery and the Samaritan women at the well.

Didn't Jesus forgave them without a trial and guilty certificate, because of grace and truth He brought from the FATHER?

And how times shall we forgive our brother even if he continue to wrong us?

What if i forgive my spouse, if it was a mistake, and another mistake, before i take the immediate ground of divorce?

Then enough is enough, only then take the ground of divorce, yet forgive and pray for my ex still, isn't it a great deed?

"And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors."

Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ

Fred J · Mar 28, 2025

St. SteVen said:
St. SteVen said:
How can you substantiate that?

How does that substantiate this? (smoke and mirrors) ???

Fred J said:
You are ignoring content by this member.
i believe in the spirit and according to the wisdom given us by All Scripture = Holy Bible, Jesus meant both 'fornication' and 'adultery'.

[

Quick Pharisee thinking.....

St. SteVen · Mar 28, 2025

Fred J said:
Quick Pharisee thinking.....

Why are you accusing me of being a pharisee?
Simply because I disagree with your position?
You have failed to substantiate your claim.
How does that make me a pharisee?

You are parroting the false conclusion that this topic is intended to address.

[

St. SteVen · Mar 28, 2025

Fred J said:
Supporting scripture are the woman caught in adultery and the Samaritan women at the well.

Jesus didn't condemn either of those women.
And what about the men?

Certainly not a support for Jesus allowing for divorce in the case of adultery.
God HATES divorce. Right? Why would Jesus allow it?

Matthew 19:8 NIV
Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard.
But it was not this way from the beginning.

[

St. SteVen · Mar 28, 2025

Fred J said:
So you're speaking for Christ that there's no divorce on the ground of 'adultery', but only on the ground of 'fornication'?

Speaking for Christ? That's what he said.
The NT Greek uses a different word for fornication and adultery.

[

Fred J · Mar 29, 2025

St. SteVen said:
Jesus didn't condemn either of those women.
And what about the men?

Certainly not a support for Jesus allowing for divorce in the case of adultery.
God HATES divorce. Right? Why would Jesus allow it?

Matthew 19:8 NIV
Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard.
But it was not this way from the beginning.

[

To correct that of yours, in the Gospel Jesus had more of a field day rebuking and correcting the men than the women.

Shalom in the name of Jesus Christ

Did Jesus say that adultery is grounds for divorce? - Nope.

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