Was the Transfiguration a vision, or an actual appearance of Moses and Elijah?

Lambano said:

Is it?

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. - Genesis 2:7

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Yes.
Physical body Life is Blood.
Soul Life is Gods Breath.

Yes.
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, (Period. mankind of Completely Formed BODY.)
And Then…
and (conjunction)
breathed into his (Formed) nostrils
the breath of life; and man became a living soul. - Genesis 2:7

Body…Form /Shape
Soul…Life from God

Purpose? Communication.
(Form-ING) Bodys do not communicate.
(Dead) Bodys do not communicate.

Communication Of the Body, requires a Living Soul “in” the body.

Communication of the Living soul, departed OUT of a Dead Body, continues with Life and the Ability to Communicate.

Communication?
Seeing, hearing, uttering sounds, tasting, smelling, touch/ feel, emotion/feel.
(Not IN the womb, Not After bodily Death).

A “PERSON”, is a Man-Kind of being, with an alive Body and Living Soul IN the Body.
(The Body and the Soul of a Person have the Same “Identity” / Name. )

All souls and it’s Life, belong to God.

Man can Kill a Body, but can Not Kill a Soul.

A “Cadaver”, is a physically dead body of a Man-Kind of being, “without” a soul IN the Body.

When a Body physically Dies, (it is buried or cremated, by other men), the Living Soul departs Out of the Body, and continues Living.

If that soul “is saved” it continues living “with” God, and His Comfort, in Heaven.

If that soul “is not saved” it continues living “Without” Gods Comfort, in Hell.
(Each, are waiting for Judgement/Sentencing Day).

Saved? It will continue Living forever.

Not Saved? It’s Life will return to God,
and the Life-LESS Body, and Life-LESS soul…Destroyed in Fire and Forgotten.

(Similar for Animal-Kind of Being).
Formed body and Receives soul, soul departs at bodily death (it a “carcass”).
It’s soul, at Gods notion, to save or not.
Animals can Not Sin, but we do know, God divided Animals, between “clean AND unclean”, so there is that, that may be Gods determining factor to Save or Not.)

Angels, Are Spirits, Can Not Die.
They were created with, Gods Truth…( unlike men, who must first Learn Gods Truth, then exercise their own, FREEWILL to believe Gods Truth or Not).
Angels / mankind….neither are created with Gods “Understanding” of His Truth / Word.

Faithful Angels and Faithful ManKIND…can Receive Gods Understanding….being Dependent on “their faithfulness”.

Satan knows the Truth, but rejects believing, rejects being faithful, thus continues his charade, because he fails in Understanding.

The Same can apply to men, and Why, Few Are Faithful, and Many Are wishy washy, believing, doubting, denying, ignoring, wondering…
Understanding Always comes AFTER Belief…
Men have a tendency to WANT “Understanding”, BEFORE Belief.
( thus the debate among men…prove YOUR understanding…”to me”…so “then” “I can “believe”.) (backwards).
Belief must come from the Heart.
And
Understanding Only comes From God.

Body
Soul
Spirit

Three different things.
Three different “Life’s”
Body - Blood (must / shall die)
Soul - Gods Breath (can not die)
Soul -(without Gods breath / will die.)
Spirit of man : natural, mans Seed, mans Truth, will die.
Spirit of man : quickened, Gods SEED, Gods Truth, will never Die.

Glory to God,
Taken

St. SteVen said:

Trusted Jesus for what?

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To save their sorry asses?

LuxMundi said:

Heaven was closed to humans after the disobedience of Adam and Eve until Jesus reopened it after His death. Jesus was the first human to enter Heaven after He reopened it. This truth and Johns following words correspond:

"No one has ascended into heaven but he who descended out of heaven..."

Do you not believe that Heaven was closed to humans after the disobedience of Adam and Eve until Jesus reopened it?

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I have no idea why you keep posting to me when you consistently avoid what I'm here talking about.

Much love!

St. SteVen said:

--- PARODY ---

Prospective new convert discussing with themself
the assets and liabilities of joining a church.

I heard the Gospel.
Not sure if I understand.
If I accept it, I'll have to go to church.
They'll want me to get baptized.
Shove an offer plate at me every week.
If I don't do it, I'll burn in hell forever.
I suppose I better do it.

[

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Mind rot.

marks said:

I have no idea why you keep posting to me when you consistently avoid what I'm here talking about.

Much love!

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I've been directly addressing it and I do so again now. The reason why John wrote "No one has ascended into heaven but he who descended out of heaven..." is because up until then Heaven was closed to humans. Jesus was the first to enter it when He reopened it after His death.

St. SteVen said:

What percentage of church-goers are there because of extortion?
Believe or burn.

The changing perception of hell. - How do you define it?

Even very by-the-book Christians are modifying their views on hell, or the afterlife. As the previous trend for fire-and-brimstone preaching has all but gone the way of the dinosaur. Leaning toward a more personalized stance on "eternal separation from God". (whatever that means to you) -...

www.christianityboard.com

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You struggle and fight against the Bible, and against the Faith, and you will one day understand what is true.

Seek God.

LuxMundi said:

I've been directly addressing it and I do so again now. The reason why John wrote "No one has ascended into heaven but he who descended out of heaven..." is because up until then Heaven was closed to humans. Jesus was the first to enter it when He reopened it after His death.

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You've mis-used the passage, and continue to mis-use it, though I've shown you the truth of what it says. This is a simple point of grammar. If you refuse to acknowledge this - there is no harm to your doctrine, this verse doesn't affect it - you do yourself harm.

The more someone chooses to close their eyes, the easier it gets.

Again, that this is an active voice verb "I ascend" doesn't affect whether or not anyone actually was taken into heaven or not, that is determined by other passages, not this one.

But to refuse to acknowledge the grammar, and to by choice continue to misuse it, that's a big deal. It's just no good, and I implore you to reconsider.

Much love!

LuxMundi said:

is because up until then Heaven was closed to humans.

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Where is the Scripture for this?

Much love!

LuxMundi said:

I've been directly addressing it and I do so again now. The reason why John wrote "No one has ascended into heaven but he who descended out of heaven..." is because up until then Heaven was closed to humans. Jesus was the first to enter it when He reopened it after His death.

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You're putting an awful lot of weight on 1 or 2 words from a single verse.

What do you do with Enoch and Elijah? They didn't "ascend" to heaven under their own power, but they were "taken" there.

marks said:

Something to note here is that "has ascended" is the active voice of the verb, meaning, no one has gone (on their own steam) into heaven except Jesus.

Nothing here says that no one has been brought into heaven, such as Elijah, or Enoch, or the souls of the dearly departed.

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As you keep repeating this “fact”, that no Bible translation I have seen supports, can you please provide the information and it’s source so that it can be examined? I like to do homework….

“ἀναβέβηκεν” in Greek means “ascended” (to go up) there is no “steam” attached to this in anything I have consulted on the net……as the opposite in that verse means “descended.“ (to come down) It seems a plain enough statement unless you want to bend it to mean something it doesn’t.

I would like to know from what source you came to this conclusion…..John Gill by any chance?

Aunty Jane said:

As you keep repeating this “fact”, that no Bible translation I have seen supports, can you please provide the information and it’s source so that it can be examined? I like to do homework….

“ἀναβέβηκεν” in Greek means “ascended” (to go up) there is no “steam” attached to this in anything I have consulted on the net……as the opposite in that verse means “descended.“ (to come down) It seems a plain enough statement unless you want to bend it to mean something it doesn’t.

I would like to know from what source you came to this conclusion…..John Gill by any chance?

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You can check this at Scripture4All.org. Great resource!

Much love!

marks said:

You can check this at Scripture4All.org. Great resource!

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I checked it out, but did not find what you mentioned….all I found was what you copied and pasted….can you link me to the information that discusses the point you mentioned…..please.

marks said:

You've mis-used the passage, and continue to mis-use it, though I've shown you the truth of what it says. This is a simple point of grammar. If you refuse to acknowledge this - there is no harm to your doctrine, this verse doesn't affect it - you do yourself harm.

The more someone chooses to close their eyes, the easier it gets.

Again, that this is an active voice verb "I ascend" doesn't affect whether or not anyone actually was taken into heaven or not, that is determined by other passages, not this one.

But to refuse to acknowledge the grammar, and to by choice continue to misuse it, that's a big deal. It's just no good, and I implore you to reconsider.

Much love!

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The verse says "No one has ascended into heaven but he who descended out of heaven...". I've never said it says anything other than that. All I ever did was explain why Jesus was the first human to enter Heaven and say that this verse supports that.

St. SteVen said:

No. I am fighting for Christians to wake up to real faith.

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I endeavor to do the same thing….

St. SteVen said:

There are genuine problems in the church. My topics attest to this.

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Could it be that the “church” system itself is the problem? Could it be that all those many denominations in Christendom all teach the same lies? Yet they all have irreconcilable differences. Does God produce division among his people…or unity? What should we expect to see? (1 Cor 1:10)

There is only one truth, so how does a person find the truth where it does not exist?

St. SteVen said:

--- PARODY ---

Person #1: Receive the free gift of eternal life.
Person #2: No thanks.
Person #1: I said it was free.
Person #2: There must be some strings attached.
Person #1: Well, of course.
Person #2: It's not a free gift then, right?
Person #1: You had better take it... or else!
Person #2: Say what?
Person #1: Otherwise you will be incinerated!
Person #2: What sort of free gift is that?

Indeed.

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If that was the reality, then why would anyone be attracted to this “Christianity”?
All the different “branches“ of this Christianity are all based on the same lies?
A trinity of gods, belief in immortal souls, and hellfire. None of these teachings exist in Scripture.

Was the gift really ever free? Did it have no cost at all? What did it cost the ones who provided it?

The “strings” attached are actually ‘conditions’ provided by the ones who wanted all to adhere to a standard of conduct to apply to everyone, so that no one would offend God or each other…..the very reason why God gave his laws to Israel…..one set of beliefs and one standard of conduct for all…..but these standards have to be willingly accepted, or you don’t have in your personality what God is looking for in a cohesive and peaceful people to do his will “on earth as it is in heaven”.

Was it ever offered on coercion of eternal torture….or was it offered on a take it or leave it basis?

The free gift is conditional because it keeps the selfish and insincere ones out of the offer…..they don’t want conditions.…but there is no selfishness permitted in God’s universal family. We do not operate independently without concern for God and for our fellow man. Free will is only free within the parameters that God stated.

If Adam had just accepted the terms of his gift of life, he could have secured for himself and all his progeny, a wonderful, eternal future, enjoying all that God provided free of charge….only asking for compliance with his wishes…which were always for our benefit.

Your parody is so twisted but then, so is most people’s “Christianity”….and the arguments never cease.
Jesus argued for the truth, but not many listened even to the son of God. So, “few” will be found on the road to life at the end of the day….(Matt 7:13-14) because humans do not change.
Will we be among them, surrendering our will to God’s?
He knows who is willing to do that, and he knows the ones who want things done “their way”.

We all have choices but they need to be made intelligently….not emotionally….and definitely not selfishly.

Lambano said:

A contradictory view is in Revelation 6:9-10:

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When you examine the context and the beliefs of the ones to whom these supposedly contradictory statements were made, you will see that the interpretation is contradictory, not the Scripture…..God’s word can never contradict itself.

Lambano said:

When the Lamb broke the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those who had been killed because of the word of God, and because of the testimony which they had maintained; 10 and they cried out with a loud voice, saying, “How long, O Lord, holy and true, will You refrain from judging and avenging our blood on those who live on the earth?”

Here the disembodied souls of the dead martyrs can talk, and they seem to be a bit pissed-off and want vengeance.

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This is figurative just as the verse in Genesis 4:4-11 is figurative of justice not being done.

When Cain murdered his brother…..”Jehovah said to Cain: “Where is your brother Abel?” and he said: “I do not know. Am I my brother’s guardian?” 10 At this He said: “What have you done? Listen! Your brother’s blood is crying out to me from the ground.”

It is injustice crying out to God, that this represents. All will answer to God for what they have done, because “each will give an accounting of himself to God” (Rom 4:12) Justice will be done.

Lambano said:

Then you have the Witch of En-dor (NASB calls her a medium, but for all we know, she was an extra-large) calling up the shade of Samuel in 1 Samuel 28:7-20.

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The witch of Endor was the only spirit medium left in the land as Saul, under God’s instruction, had evicted them. When the prophet Samuel died, it left Saul feeling vulnerable because he had lost God’s favor due to his own disobedience and then compounded it by seeking out a person whose practices God had forbidden in Israel. (Deut 18:9-12)

Only the woman saw the spirit and heard what it said….because the Jews had no belief in disembodied souls, but that notion was taking hold in Israel, so when the living prophets would not speak to Saul, he wanted to hear the words of the prophet he had always turned to, but since Samuel had died, in his desperation Saul allowed a spirit medium to conjugate up a demon impersonating the dead prophet.

Lambano said:

st. So, the Jewish people some kind of belief in ghosts and an afterlife and such, but it's vague and inconsistent.

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This belief permeates all false worship, even in Israel when their kings turned to false religious practices and beliefs….just like Christendom has done, following in her footsteps. History repeats because humans do not learn from the errors of the past, and are therefore doomed to repeat them.