Take A Stand - Stand to gain, or stand to lose?

Behold · Mar 21, 2025

St. SteVen said:
Over the years I have known many individuals that have taken issue with the church

What you posted is very vague, bordering on obtuse, and certainly not clear.

So, when you write......"issues with the church".

Do you mean the Catholic Church
The Mormon Church
The Local Church
Your church building?
The idea of going to church?

Try to be more clear., as every one who is born again is the actual "church"......not the Local building that says "CHURCH" on the Sign. @St. SteVen

Ritajanice · Mar 21, 2025

I would say that Jesus is the church, the head of the church...the Born Again are representatives for Jesus.

They are being conformed into his image, by the power of the Spirit who indwells their heart/ spirit.they should also bear the fruit of the Spirit.if they are Born Again.

The other two passages where Paul refers to the church as the body of Christ are Ephesians 1:22-23 and Colossians 1:24: “[H]e has put all things under his feet and has made him the head over all things for the church, which is his body, the fullness of him who fills all in all.”

At the moment @St. SteVen ..I am not a member of any building ,where they worship God...

soberxp · Mar 21, 2025

Just to be clear, I'm not judging the church, I'm just speaking out my opinion.

The reason I left the church here in China:
I found that they kept people as God gave to the church, and never thought about expanding the church community. When they want people to give more money to the church, they didn't think about how to grow the church community.

And the church lacks real communication, any attempt to communicate can be interpreted as heresy, the church will define what you want to communicate as a family church, I don't know why churches hate family churches.

Then I found out that the deacons in the church just see what they do as a job, and I don't feel the so-called faith.

So I left the church, and maybe I should have gone to more church, but I've gone to as many churches as I can.

In the end I hope the church will change.

Behold · Mar 21, 2025

Ritajanice said:
I would say that Jesus is the church,

If "Jesus is the church".. then who is the "body of Christ" and who is "the Temple of the Holy Spirit"?

Ritajanice · Mar 21, 2025

Behold said:
If "Jesus is the church".. then who is the "body of Christ" and who is "the Temple of the Holy Spirit"?

The church is the Body of “ Christ “....the Born Again are his followers, as we belong to his body, in spirit...

We are the temple of where the Holy Spirit indwells...our spirit is Born Again, that is where the Spirit permanently indwells us...he is God Living Witness/ testimony.

Because our sin has been forgiven, the Spirit can and does take up permanent residence in our hearts/ spirit...

Spirit gives birth to spirit.

Behold · Mar 21, 2025

Ritajanice said:
The church is the Body of “ Christ “....the Born Again are his followers, as we belong to his body, in spirit...

We are the temple of where the Holy Spirit indwells...our spirit is Born Again, that is where the Spirit permanently indwells us...he is God Living Witness/ testimony.

Because our sin has been forgiven, the Spirit can and does take up permanent residence in our hearts/ spirit...

Spirit gives birth to spirit.

Yes, The Holy Spirit, who is God, who is Christ..

"God is A Spirit"... and "Jesus is THAT Spirit".....

So, this is the Holy Spirit, and He does cause spiritual birth in all believers.

To become born again, is to become born "of/by the Spirit of God"... into God, who is "A Spirit".

This is a "Spiritual Birth".. (Born... ...... AGAIN)... Spiritually, and this is our spirit become joined to Christ as "in Christ".. and to God as "one with God".

Ritajanice · Mar 21, 2025

Yes, The Holy Spirit, who is God, who is Christ..

Behold said:
"God is A Spirit"... and "Jesus is THAT Spirit".....

So, this is the Holy Spirit, and He does cause spiritual birth in all believers.

To become born again, is to become born "of/by the Spirit of God"... into God, who is "A Spirit".

This is a "Spiritual Birth".. (Born... ...... AGAIN)... Spiritually, and this is our spirit become joined to Christ as "in Christ".. and to God as "one with God".

Everyone, God has shown me, experiences the Living spiritual birth very differently...in other words, no testimonies are the same..imo....

Everyone on the forum communicates with God via His Spirit...very differently..

As for Jesus being God...been over that, plus it’s off topic I believe, not sure.

Ritajanice · Mar 21, 2025

Behold said:
So, this is the Holy Spirit, and He does cause spiritual birth in all believers

What do you mean he causes spiritual birth...that makes no sense to me.?

That’s your way of understanding....not my way of understanding, Spirit gives birth to spirit.

The Spirit gave birth to my spirit by supernatural divine heart revelation...not by reading the Bible.

I was Born Of The Spirit as Jesus explains to Nicodemus.

The Spirit testifies with our spirit that we are Gods children....that’s my way of understanding, what was testified to my spirit, by Gods Living witness the Spirit.

Remember I became Born Of The Spirit having never read a Bible...I believe you became Born Again by reading the Bible..not sure.

When I became Born Of The Spirit..it was instant and completely unexpected.blew my mind.....reminds me of sauls encounter with the Lord...the Spirit didn’t speak to me in an audible voice....how can you explain how the Spirit testifies with our spirit....we can’t...that’s between God and his child.....of course there was much more to it than that..which I’ve testified to, many times..

My testimony and belief..

Behold · Mar 21, 2025

Ritajanice said:
Yes, The Holy Spirit, who is God, who is Christ..

Everyone, God has shown me, experiences the Living spiritual birth very differently...in other words, no testimonies are the same..imo....

Well, the experience can be different........in other words....... some cry, some laugh, some feel goose bumps, some feel nothing, when God is birthing them spiritually.

Ritajanice said:
Everyone on the forum communicates with God via His Spirit...very differently..

Most Christians communicate or fellowship with God by Prayer, (conversation with God or meditation on God) and Praise, and Bible study.

God communicates with us, in many ways.........and its always one specific way......which is some type of Revelation.

Examples..

Revelation of what a bible verse means.
Revelation that is the answer to a prayer.
Revelation that is some type of wisdom we gained.
Revelation of Himself in Nature, or the cosmos.

Ritajanice said:
As for Jesus being God...been over that, plus it’s off topic I believe, not sure.

This Forum's rules and regulations and stated belief, agrees with the Trinity doctrine.
They usually dont allow a "Trinity" Thread because the members who hate the idea of God as Incarnate Son, just become too hateful.

The Thing is...... Its not required that we believe that Jesus is "God manifested in the Flesh" as Paul teaches... so that we can be saved.
its not a requirement for salvation that we believe that Jesus is "God manifested in the Flesh"..., and people who say it is, are simply not very good bible students.

St. SteVen · Mar 21, 2025

Ritajanice said:
At the moment @St. SteVen ..I am not a member of any building ,where they worship God...

That is an interesting way to state it. ("not a member of any building")

This post is for all readers. Not aimed at you specifically Ritajanice.

Decades ago, when I first started posting on "Christian" forums, I was shocked
at the high percentage that were not a part of a local body of believers.

I was raised in the church. And except for a few years as a young adult,
I have attended regularly all my life. And still do. And with the advent of online services,
I can still attend even when I am home sick.

Decades earlier I got after these forum non-attenders with all the usual apologetics.
But what I learned eventually was that people had their reasons. And some were quite valid.
I had suffered through the same things some of them had, but I didn't leave the church.

I feel that this epidemic of non-participation is not what Christ had in mind for his body.
The blame lies with both the church, that is so off-putting, and the individuals that are so easily put off.

Where do we go from here? I recommend that non-attenders find a body to plug into.
Deep online (forum) relationships can work. Even as a regular church attender, I have reached out
to individuals in PMs and even phone conversations. I have developed some close relationships.

We don't have to be present under the same building roof to be in fellowship with one another.

How have others worked to heal this epidemic of non-participation?

[

Behold · Mar 21, 2025

Ritajanice said:
What do you mean he causes spiritual birth...that makes no sense to me.?

Well, when Adam sinned, he lost spiritual union with God... not just for himself, but for all of the human race.
So, Jesus came to take away our sin (that separates us from God until its all forgiven).... so that God could by this Sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross, rejoin Himself to us, and us to Him.

Now, because God is "A Spirit"... and we are spirit beings........ what happens is that God causes our Spirit to be rejoined to His.

That is to become "born.......= again" Spiritually.

Ritajanice said:
I believe you became Born Again by reading the Bible..not sure.

No one is born again by reading a bible, not exaclty.........but the bible explains that if we Give God our Faith in Christ, then God accepts our faith.
So, the bible has "The Gospel message that is our salvation in it".... and if we believe it.......
And from this... God forgives our sin......and then now that we are forgiven, Holy God is able to join Himself to us, and that JOINING of our spirit to God's is the "new Birth" or "Spiritual birth".

Ritajanice · Mar 21, 2025

St. SteVen said:
How have other worked to heal this epidemic of non-participation?

Good question..I don’t have the answer.

I had a terrible experience in a building where they worshipped God...in fact that experience I had, I had a nervous breakdown over it...

After that experience, I never went to church for at least 25 years.

Then I felt the Lord leading me back to that same building..I reluctantly went...it had now changed names, with a new Pastor, plus most of the congregation that I knew, when I first attended this building were no longer there.

I stayed for a couple of years...I found it very cliquey ...I never felt the Love Of God there...I’m not judging anyone I’m just saying how it was...plus they never seemed to want me to get involved in coffee making, welcoming people at the door etc....all of our hearts are at different places I believe...remember only God can soften our heart, plus it’s all in his timing,imo.

I then joined another building, where it was mostly black...loved their way of worship....that was until they started to put pressure on me to give money...even open up a standing order to pay a contribution to the building monthly....they also put pressure on me to come to church every week...I left and haven’t been anywhere since.

I need fellowship with other believers ,that is why I come here....I LOVE my fellowship with all you guys on this forum...it’s my home.

St. SteVen · Mar 21, 2025

St. SteVen said:
How have others worked to heal this epidemic of non-participation?

It seems so unfortunate that "Christian" forums have become a battle ground of conflicting beliefs.
When they could have been a source of great support, encouragement and comfort.
And in some cases, it is. But not the majority attitude.

[

St. SteVen · Mar 21, 2025

Ritajanice said:
I need fellowship with other believers ,that is why I come here....

Have you found that to be satisfying?
What could we do to make that more successful?

[

Ritajanice · Mar 21, 2025

Behold said:
Well, when Adam sinned, he lost spiritual union with God... not just for himself, but for all of the human race.
So, Jesus came to take away our sin (that separates us from God until its all forgiven).... so that God could by this Sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross, rejoin Himself to us, and us to Him.

Now, because God is "A Spirit"... and we are spirit beings........ what happens is that God causes our Spirit to be rejoined to His.

That is to become "born.......= again" Spiritually.

No one is born again by reading a bible, not exaclty.........but the bible explains that if we Give God our Faith in Christ, then God accepts our faith.
So, the bible has "The Gospel message that is our salvation in it".... and if we believe it.......
And from this... God forgives our sin......and then now that we are forgiven, Holy God is able to join Himself to us, and that JOINING of our spirit to God's is the "new Birth" or "Spiritual birth".

Once again Behold ,that is your way that God has brought you to understand the rebirth.

I do not understand the rebirth the same way as you...I understand it the way that God has brought me to understand the rebirth.

God did not join himself to me...he birthed my spirit into His...” Spirit gives birth to spirit...just as his word says.

With respect, you are NOT my teacher...the Spirit is and I listen to no one but him...just as his word says.

Ritajanice · Mar 21, 2025

St. SteVen said:
Have you found that to be satisfying?
What could we do to make that more successful?

[

I find it very satisfying ...far more than..than any building where they teach God..for about an hour.

I’m on this forum for hours at times....forever growing and learning all about God, plus I learn through seeking God out with all my heart.

He speaks to my spirit through other members on here, etc..

I think the forum is very successful....I think we need that mind of ours continually renewed.

You know how the enemy loves to divide us and get many of us arguing...

I’ve had to figure that all out...as I grow and mature in Christ...just my thoughts, Brother.

Ritajanice · Mar 21, 2025

St. SteVen said:
It seems so unfortunate that "Christian" forums have become a battle ground of conflicting beliefs.
When they could have been a source of great support, encouragement and comfort.
And in some cases, it is. But not the majority attitude.

[

This forum has grown as well, Brother...remember the staff are the same as us, all growing in Christ...I’ve seen a great change in this forum...which has been 100% positive and for the better ,imo...I love this forum and have some lovely friends here.

I take breaks at times, otherwise my cleaning tasks suffer...LOL.

Ritajanice · Mar 21, 2025

St. SteVen said:
But not the majority attitude

My attitude stank at one time...so I can’t pass judgment on another’s attitude...remember only God can work in our hearts...it’s certainly taken him years and years to work with my attitude ....what a long suffering and patient God we serve...there is none like him.

Behold · Mar 21, 2025

Ritajanice said:
Once again Behold ,that is your way that God has brought you to understand the rebirth.

Actually that is the way the bible teaches being "born again", spiritually.

So, when we say "re-birth'.. then that is a birth, a new birth of what is already alive.= our spirit man

This means that our spirit man, that is separated from God's Spirit by SIN..... This SIN that separates our spirit from God's Spirit so that we have no spiritual union with God.... ... this is eternally resolved by Jesus's payment for our sin.. as that is what His sacrifice has accomplished on The Cross.
We are FORGIVEN.... forever., bases on Jesus's shed blood and death and resurrection.

So, now being forgiven, (made sinless) God who is sinless is able to birth our spirit into Himself, (God is A Spirit) .. as Born... again, Spiritually.

Ritajanice · Mar 21, 2025

Behold said:
Actually that is the way the bible teaches being "born again", spiritually.

I don’t agree..I will stick with Gods Living Witness and Testimony,thanks.just as His word says...

Behold said:
So, when we say "re-birth'.. then that is a birth, a new birth of what is already alive.= our spirit man

This means that our spirit man, that is separated from God's Spirit by SIN..... This SIN that separates our spirit from God's Spirit so that we have no spiritual union with God.... ... this is eternally resolved by Jesus's payment for our sin.. as that is what His sacrifice has accomplished on The Cross.
We are FORGIVEN.... forever., bases on Jesus's shed blood and death and resurrection.

So, now being forgiven, (made sinless) God who is sinless is able to birth our spirit into Himself, (God is A Spirit) .. as Born... again, Spiritually.

I was not taught how to become Born Again..it’s not biblical...

Born Again by supernatural divine heart revelation....a Bible can’t do that...we are Born Of The Spirit...by the will of God....Spirit gives birth to spirit...

Praise God...that only his Spirit can birth our spirit...there are no directions for that...good day.

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