CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
Even though the English translation renders θεότης as "godhead," the actual meaning is "divinity" or "divine nature"
Understanding the GodHead.
- Thread starter Hobie
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
- Status
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
And even then, that is only a few ancient English translations with "James" in the title. Modern translations render it correctly.
Lambano
Well-Known Member
It means divine action on an object. There would be an iota, and the word would be θειον, if it was about divinity purely.
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
@Lambano I know you have a very difficult time coming to terms with the fact that the human Jesus became immortal in glory for the very first time after his human death.
Look at ..Luke 24:25-27
(Luk 24:25) And he said unto them, O foolish men, and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken!
(Luk 24:26) Behoved it not the Christ to suffer these things, and to enter into his glory?
(Luk 24:27) And beginning from Moses and from all the prophets, he interpreted to them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
Have you ever connected these verses with John 17:5 before.
And the lord rose in glory for the first time...this man Jesus was never a deity or a pre-existing creature of God until his human birth.
(Luk 24:34) saying, The Lord is risen indeed, and hath appeared to Simon.
Look at ..Luke 24:25-27
(Luk 24:25) And he said unto them, O foolish men, and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken!
(Luk 24:26) Behoved it not the Christ to suffer these things, and to enter into his glory?
(Luk 24:27) And beginning from Moses and from all the prophets, he interpreted to them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
Have you ever connected these verses with John 17:5 before.
And the lord rose in glory for the first time...this man Jesus was never a deity or a pre-existing creature of God until his human birth.
(Luk 24:34) saying, The Lord is risen indeed, and hath appeared to Simon.
Lambano
Well-Known Member
Actually, just the opposite - I have a hard time coming to terms with the concept that the same Jesus who walked the dirty cobblestone streets of 30 AD Jerusalem and preached about lilies and got into trouble with the local authorities and ate bread and fish and drank wine with his friends and took a dump in our latrines (although there were apparently gnostic sects who believed Jesus never took a dump or a whiz, and it's never mentioned anywhere in the Bible), that same entity existed before the beginning of time and was somehow instrumental in Creation. That's what is being claimed if we take John and Colossians as written.
Much to learn as anyone who is searching for the truth. If you want to reconcile John and Paul's work let me know of the starting point and I will indulge.
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
In my opinion, the "di" can also indicate the "raison d'être" of creation. Paul means that Jesus is the most important reason or purpose for the creation's existence.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Nonsense! A friend’s husband built a house with 3 bedrooms in anticipation of children conceived only in his mind. The foundations of the house were made in carrying out his plan.
John and Colossians read as much, thought trinitarians must read into it what it does not say only because their doctrine is not only missing but contradicts Scripture.
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
The phrase "son of God" originates from the Davidic covenant, in which God promised David that he would have an heir to his throne: Solomon. God stated that He would regard Solomon as "a son to me." Every descendant of David who sat on David's throne was considered a "son" to God. (2 Samuel 7:14-16)
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Trinitarians don’t realize ‘Son of God’ is a title and not a biological procreation of 1 deity into 2 deities like an amoeba.
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
Trinitarianism has obscured a lot of important information regarding Jesus Christ.
The Messiah came for Israel and God fearers. It incorrectly gets the nature of the atonement wrong. With it, there came a belief immortality of the soul etc. It makes God blood thirsty and only accepting of blind trust aka blind faith.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
The primary obfuscation of trinitarianism is denying Jesus’ total sacrifice for humanity. It asserts he only sacrificed half, which means the wages of sin - total death - has not been paid.
Lambano
Well-Known Member
According to Thayer's, dia with a personal genitive autou ("him") indicates instrumentality. It looks like "reason" would require the accusative case. Either way, the "reason" is covered by the eis auton (also in the accusative case) immediately following dia autou in the same passage. So, I think I understand why the translators used the English "through him and for him".
Last edited:
Lambano
Well-Known Member
No theologian that I've ever read advocates a "half-and-half" Christology.
Don't understand it? Neither do I. And I've given up the expectation that I can or even should understand it. All I can say for certain is that their writings indicate that both John and Paul believed that in some way, Christ was present at, and instrumental in, Creation.
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
I am not prepared to give you an exhaustive list, but a couple of examples may suffice.
When discussing Jesus's sinlessness, Trinitarians are likely to agree that he was sinless because he is God. However, this raises the question: Will his followers ever experience a sinless existence? If so, what would enable them to live without sin? I don't believe I can argue that Christians will eventually live without sin simply because they are God. What accounts for the fact that we human beings will eventually live sinless lives, and why doesn't the same reason apply to the man Jesus?
Could there be another reason why Jesus, the man, lived without sin? Paul refers to Jesus as the last Adam and compares the "new man" with the "old man," highlighting a fundamental difference between the two. In this sense, Jesus serves as the first among many in the "new" humanity, which will be characterized by their perfect obedience to God and His holiness. In the coming age, all human beings will be like Jesus: faithful, truth-loving, loving toward others, obedient to God, sinless, humble, and strong.
The question is: What explains Jesus's attributes? Are these attributes a result of His divine nature as God, or do they stem from the fact that Jesus is the first of His kind, referred to by Paul as "the last Adam"? It seems to me that if we assume that these attributes are the result of his divine nature, then we foreclose on the idea that they are the result of his glorified human nature. But if we didn't already believe in the deity of Christ, wouldn't we conclude that his kindness, generosity, faithfulness, goodness, and holiness were the result of a divine nature or a glorified human nature instead?
These issues deserve a couple of pages of explanation by themselves. As such, I am uncertain whether I have said enough to make my point. I can only encourage us to keep the comparison between his human nature and his divine nature in the background as we read and study the Gospels.
- Status
Similar threads
