Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
I listen to everyone, but I don't believe every word I hear.
Looking realistically at ourselves.
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Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
If you want to know who to listen to, read 1 Thessalonians 5:17.
1 Thessalonians 5:17
12 But we request of you, brethren, that you appreciate those who diligently labor among you, and have charge over you in the Lord and give you instruction,
13 and that you esteem them very highly in love because of their work. Live in peace with one another.
14 We urge you, brethren, admonish the unruly, encourage the fainthearted, help the weak, be patient with everyone.
15 See that no one repays another with evil for evil, but always seek after that which is good for one another and for all people.
16 Rejoice always;
17 pray without ceasing;
Agreed.
Did you read verse 12?
We all seem to pick out only the verses we like.
It's all God's TRUTH isn't it brother? It's all God-breathed from the mouth of God. How can we say some of what God says is more authoritative than other things that God says? Does that mean we can pick and choose what things to receive and heed or not receive and heed from His word? And how do we do that when the entire bible is really one cohesive word, with Jesus and the gospel being the hub of it? Jesus Christ is even called the Word made flesh...are some parts of Him and His teachings and truths more authoritative than other parts? Silly to argue about this in my opinion. The natural carnal mind is apt to raise questions that have no spiritual relevance, if that's the right word.
The Word made flesh.....Jesus said we must eat His body and drink His blood or we have no Life in us. He is the Bread of Life. And the Life is in the blood, ie, His Spirit. We are to eat His word and drink His life.....that means to receive His word and His life/spirit on the inside of us, into our hearts. Man does not live by bread alone but by EVERY word that proceeds from the mouth of God.
Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
If it's all God's truth, then women shouldn't speak when they are in a church building:
[33] For God is not a God of confusion but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints,
[34] the women should keep silence in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says.
[35] If there is anything they desire to know, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.
[36] What! Did the word of God originate with you, or are you the only ones it has reached? 1 Corinthians 14:33-36 RSV
Ritajanice
Born-Again
We are all led to understand the word differently, what is bloviating to one, is not bloviating to another, I believe faith is understood very differently by some.
You can read that just by reading members posts....plenty of posts on here I don’t understand...as long as I understand what the Spirit witnesses to my spirit, then check it out with scripture, all good.
I don’t think some understand that God is a Living supernatural Spirit...Spirit gives birth to spirit...only the Holy Spirit can testify of that truth to one’s spirit..as he permanently indwells the spirit of his child...hence we must be Born Of The Spirit...
Flesh birth is our human birth.
Spirit birth, is a Living supernatural spiritual birth.
You can read that just by reading members posts....plenty of posts on here I don’t understand...as long as I understand what the Spirit witnesses to my spirit, then check it out with scripture, all good.
I don’t think some understand that God is a Living supernatural Spirit...Spirit gives birth to spirit...only the Holy Spirit can testify of that truth to one’s spirit..as he permanently indwells the spirit of his child...hence we must be Born Of The Spirit...
Flesh birth is our human birth.
Spirit birth, is a Living supernatural spiritual birth.
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And yet women may pray and prophesy. So it appears we need to understand properly what is being addressed. I read all this as that women may not lead the proceedings and we may not teach or usurp authority over the men in the church, and we may not be disruptive with social chatter when in holy assembly or distracting hubby with questions. I gather this was written to guide and correct especially those women who had just come out of paganism and hadn't yet cottoned on to the orderliness of Christian assembly.
And just want to say, "church building" or no church building is irrelevant. In the simplicity of Christ it is simply "when you come together" to present ourselves before our Lord and God like the angels did in Job, and pray and minister before Him, and He to us, together. The same "church building" or same room might be used to set out tables and feed the hungry when the meeting time is over, so I think it's common sense that we women can just speak as normal in the same building or whatever the location is, whenever we are not in holy assembly. It's not the building or location that is "holy", it is the gathering for the purpose of assembling before the Lord that is holy. Would you agree?
Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
According to the Bible, women can't speak in a church. As long as they aren't doing that, I see no problem.
By the way, I think Paul was mistaken - I think it's okay for women to speak in a church. There is a lot of work that needs to get done in a church - how can it be done if women aren't allowed to speak?
Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
Paul said, "The women should keep silence in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak." How would you interpret that?
Can you tell me what this means?
I NEVER SAID YOU STOLE MONEY.
The only way we can possibly know what Paul meant was to study the culture of the day.
I did post briefly on this.
In fact, most churches do not allow women to teach/become priests, etc.
To teach priests, that is.
They can teach other women or children.
Jesus sent out men...not women.
But Mary Magdalene was prominent and was the first to get to the empty tomb.
This must mean something too.
So in Matthew it states to pluck out an eye rather than to sin.
Is that literal too?
Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
You seem to be saying we can interpret the Bible any way we want.
Behold
Well-Known Member
The way you interpret this is very simple.
Take your time machine to Paul's time., and you find that a "church" was often someone's house.....or it was a fairly small room that contained 20-50.
And Paul organized this as "men on this side" "women on that side"...
Now, men like to talk and women love to talk.. and what was happening, is that the women were talking across the aisle, to their husband or son..........such as....>>"remember to bring the bread home and we need milk and eggs".
So, all this CHATTER, was not allowing the Service, the preaching to be heard clearly.......so, Paul asked the women to be quiet, and the men usually were anyway.
Not a big theological deal.......not a NT assault on "women's rights" .
Just a room full of happy families and it needed to have some ORDER so that the teaching could be heard and not interfered with.... ect.
Today's version of that situation is......>>"would you take your crying baby out of the main sanctuary and into the toddler room".....
It's not easy to know exactly what Paul, or any of the writers, meant in every case.
We have to take the NT as a whole, complete idea...not verse by verse.
I make the claim that Paul and Jesus agreed on what they taught.
I state that we can have faith in what Paul taught, and also the other writers.
If not, we can take the red words...make a red letter bible out of them...
and chuck the rest out the window.
Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
It is very clear. According to the Bible, women can't speak in a church. If you think the Bible is the supreme authority, then I'm sure you don't allow women to speak in your church.
Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
Paul said women can't speak in church. The question is whether or not we are required to obey Paul.
We have one boss - Jesus.
Paul condoning old fashioned culture (men is boss) to avoid division in church. It was pretty chaotic in the Corinth church.
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