Looking realistically at ourselves.
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Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
Show me where God or Jesus tell us to obey Paul or any of the rest of the apostles.
Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
I THINK I know what you're saying.
IOW,,,you believe Jesus' words carry more weight than Paul's or any of the other writers.
I'll have to agree.
But don't you believe that they're saying the same?
Some even go so far as to pit Jesus against Paul stating that their teachings are different.
Now, I may have missed something, but it seems to me that the teaching is the same throughout
the NT.
Do you see a difference?
Well, I don't know that God is QUOTED.
The OT is inspired.
I don't believe God sat at a computer and typed out what He wants us to know
DIRECTLY from Him.
Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
Paul says women can't speak when they are in a church (1 Corinthians 14:33-36). Can you imagine what would happen if we didn't let women speak when they were in a church?
But even if Paul hadn't said that, can we put Paul on the same level as Jesus?
Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
Hebrews 13 I suppose brother. " Obey them that have the rule of you...". Jesus chose and delegated the apostles...they were eye-witnesses of His glory and taught by Him." GOD hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets....". And ALL scripture is God breathed, so we are to heed them. The writings of the apostles are in complete agreement with the gospels and the Old Testament scriptures......test and discern them. And what the new testament does actually is REVEAL the OT scrips that had previously not been understood.
Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
I asked you to show me where God or Jesus told us to obey Paul. You are quoting the writer of Hebrews.
What is the point you are trying to make? That we should not learn from and heed the writings of Paul or the other apostles....that they are not inspired by God and trustworthy? My goodness.
The bible is not God, and I certainly agree that we should not worship a book, but they are His words that we should know cherish, value and heed....in spirit and by the Spirit, prayerfully. The scriptures are HIS revelation, His truth, His doctrines, His commands, His admonitions, instructions, reproofs, rebukes and warnings. It's the sword of the Spirit. Those that worship the book that I've seen are those who eschew a living relationship with the Living God.....they serve in the old way of a dead letter and I have sometimes tried to help them realize that they need to come up higher than that, and paid the price for trying.
I don't want to argue fruitlessly about this. Have a nice day.
Women were not allowed to speak in the synagogue.
Do you think a cultural shift could happen overnight?
In the US it seems to have but because most were sick and tired of the nonsense going on.
The Jews were not sick and tired of anything....they knew their religion and accepted it.
What Jesus began was extremely novel.
And did you know that women were more respected at the time of Moses than at the time of Jesus?
Did you know that women were told not to wear jewelry?
I sure ain't going to heaven!!
There was a reason.
Those reasons are no longer valid.
Who said Paul is on the same level as Jesus?
I asked you why you think they taught differently but you didn't answer.
It's difficult to have a discussion when one doesn't know what he's discussing! (I mean ME).
Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
My point is that the Bible does not have the same authority as God. If you are looking for authority, find where God and Jesus are quoted in the Bible.
Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
So I think Paul was mistaken to say women can't speak in a church (or synagogue).
Paul was a devoted follower of Jesus Christ. He was specifically chosen by Jesus to spread the message to far-off regions, including among non-Jews, and even to secular leaders whom other Christians could not engage directly. Paul experienced the profound influence of the holy spirit, as he was divinely anointed to fulfill a significant mission.
Furthermore, he was among the select few permitted to compose inspired letters that provided guidance to congregations about crucial elements of the Christian faith. Over half of the New Testament books were penned by Paul, who gained the endorsement of the anointed leaders in Jerusalem after they confirmed God's support for him. The holy spirit repeatedly affirmed that Jesus had appointed Paul for this important task, which he embraced willingly, despite the numerous hardships he faced.
By accepting the letters authored by Paul, we align ourselves with Jesus and the holy spirit that empowered him, rather than viewing Paul as a solitary figure. The Scriptures provide numerous examples of individuals whom God utilized to convey His message. Indeed, every biblical writer was instrumental in delivering God's instructions; He does not communicate with us directly. If we disregard Paul's teachings, will we not also disregard the messages of Jeremiah, Isaiah, David, and the rest?
Furthermore, he was among the select few permitted to compose inspired letters that provided guidance to congregations about crucial elements of the Christian faith. Over half of the New Testament books were penned by Paul, who gained the endorsement of the anointed leaders in Jerusalem after they confirmed God's support for him. The holy spirit repeatedly affirmed that Jesus had appointed Paul for this important task, which he embraced willingly, despite the numerous hardships he faced.
By accepting the letters authored by Paul, we align ourselves with Jesus and the holy spirit that empowered him, rather than viewing Paul as a solitary figure. The Scriptures provide numerous examples of individuals whom God utilized to convey His message. Indeed, every biblical writer was instrumental in delivering God's instructions; He does not communicate with us directly. If we disregard Paul's teachings, will we not also disregard the messages of Jeremiah, Isaiah, David, and the rest?
Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
He said that Paul was given authority by Jesus to spread the gospel in far off countries.
Paul was annointed to a special and specific mission.
Paul was inspired to write about half of the NT (it's less than that, but close enough).
Paul faced many hardships but he still completed his mission.
By accepting the letters of Paul we align ourselves with Jesus.
Every writer was instrumental in delivering God's message.
If we disregard Paul's message, we should then also disregard messages in the OT...like Jeremiah and others.
Bob Estey
Well-Known Member
I don't remember Jesus or God ever telling anyone to obey Paul.
Oh boy.
OK.
Don't listen to Paul.
Don't listen to anyone.
Not even your pastor/priest because when did God ever say to listen to HIM??
Logging off.
Good night Bob.
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