JOHN 11:49 ONE NATION

Verily · Jan 16, 2025

Doug said:
Absolutely not .....no games...we can have all these discussions but whats the most important thing...to believe the gospel of our salvation
I believe Christ died for our sins and took the penalty for it
He rose again for our justification unto eternal life
We have his imputed righteousness
I just dont remember if you ever told me your belief

That is what a Christian believes (and we are on a christian forum) its one of the most elemental and first things.

Yes, its what I believe, but I certainly dont tell every single christian on every forum (individually) the absolute obvious thing that should between us, we tell the world this so they might believe.

So yes, salvation is by faith in Jesus Christ, the gospel is his death burial and resurrection and the forgiveness of sins that come through him.

Doug · Jan 16, 2025

Verily said:
That is what a Christian believes (and we are on a christian forum) its one of the most elemental and first things.

Yes, its what I believe, but I certainly dont tell every single christian on every forum (individually) the absolute obvious thing that should between us, we tell the world this so they might believe.

So yes, salvation is by faith in Jesus Christ, the gospel is his death burial and resurrection and the forgiveness of sins that come through him.

Ok good
But I have found that many on this forum do not share the same gospel so that is why I ask
Many believe our gospel is found in the four gospels
I do not take their being Christian on face value

Lambano · Jan 31, 2025

Doug said:
Jesus is saying here that there would be one fold. The other sheep not of this fold is not the Gentiles but, rather, the other sheep are the believing remnant of Israel scattered into other countries.

Doug, what's your point in all these threads trying to separate Jewish Christians from Gentile Christians?

Herbert · Feb 1, 2025

Doug said:
John 11:49 And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all,
11:50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.
11:51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
11:52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.
11:53 Then from that day forth they took counsel together for to put him to death.

Caiaphas did not know it when he spoke, but he prophesied that Jesus would die for the nation of Israel.

Jesus would die for the iniquities Israel committed under the first covenant (Hebrews 9:15).

The believing remnant of Israel that received Jesus as Messiah, the Son of God, who believed on him (John 3:16) and his name (John 20:31), they were the holy nation (Exodus 19:6 1 Peter 2:9), the Israel of God (Galatians 6:16), the little flock (Luke 12:32). But, it was not for that nation only that Jesus died, Jesus died for the believing remnant, the little flock that was scattered abroad into other nations.

Jeremiah 23:3 And I will gather the remnant of my flock out of all countries whither I have driven them, and will bring them again to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase.

Jeremiah prophesied that Christ would bring all of the believing remnant of Israel that were in other countries back into their folds.

[Jhn 10:16 KJV] 16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, [and] one shepherd.

Jesus is saying here that there would be one fold. The other sheep not of this fold is not the Gentiles but, rather, the other sheep are the believing remnant of Israel scattered into other countries.

It’s when God uses a bad guy without him knowing it. Shows how God works in mysterious ways.

Doug · Feb 1, 2025

Lambano said:
Doug, what's your point in all these threads trying to separate Jewish Christians from Gentile Christians?

Alot think that all that was about Israel is about them. They can think the gospel preached by Jesus and the twelve is their gospel. They can fail to see that there are different dispensations, and Paul reveals the dispensation of grace. They can fail to see our instructions and purpose are in Paul. They can by error diminish Israel. They can fail to recognize that we are to believe Paul's gospel.

Lambano · Feb 1, 2025

Doug said:
Alot think that all that was about Israel is about them. They can think the gospel preached by Jesus and the twelve is their gospel. They can fail to see that there are different dispensations, and Paul reveals the dispensation of grace. They can fail to see our instructions and purpose are in Paul. They can by error diminish Israel. They can fail to recognize that we are to believe Paul's gospel.

Okay. So, what relevance does Jesus have to OUR lives as 21st century Gentile Christians?

Doug · Feb 1, 2025

Lambano said:
Okay. So, what relevance does Jesus have to OUR lives as 21st century Gentile Christians?

We can learn from all scripture. We recognize that we are not instructed to obey all scripture....we rightly divide scripture. From the old testament we can learn about God's purpose for Israel and progressive revelation about Jesus. From the new we can learn Jesus is Christ Son of God and learn from his teachings and death and resurrection. We acknowledge that when we follow Paul as our apostle we are following Christ, All that Paul gives us came from Jesus. Paul gives us our commandments our instructions

Lambano · Feb 1, 2025

Doug said:
We can learn from all scripture. We recognize that we are not instructed to obey all scripture....we rightly divide scripture. From the old testament we can learn about God's purpose for Israel and progressive revelation about Jesus. From the new we can learn Jesus is Christ Son of God and learn from his teachings and death and resurrection. We acknowledge that when we follow Paul as our apostle we are following Christ, All that Paul gives us came from Jesus. Paul gives us our commandments our instructions

I note the reference to the works of C.I. Schofield.

Okay, so in this interpretive framework, are Jesus's earthly teaching completely irrelevant to us, then?

Lambano · Feb 1, 2025

Have you ever heard of Marcion of Sinope?

Doug · Feb 1, 2025

Lambano said:
I note the reference to the works of C.I. Schofield.

I dont follow him if thats what you mean......I know he is dispensationalist

Doug · Feb 1, 2025

Lambano said:
Okay, so in this interpretive framework, are Jesus's earthly teaching completely irrelevant to us, then?

I said we can learn from them in general

Lambano · Feb 1, 2025

Doug said:
I dont follow him if thats what you mean......I know he is dispensationalist

Mr. Schofield was a founder of Dispensationalism, along with Charles Nelson Darby. His seminal work was a book called, "Rightly Dividing the Word of Truth".

Doug · Feb 1, 2025

Lambano said:
Mr. Schofield was a founder of Dispensationalism, along with Charles Nelson Darby. His seminal work was a book called, "Rightly Dividing the Word of Truth".

We all have teachers and in fact God ordained them....I am sure they were wrong about some things as am I...that doesnt mean they were wrong about everything
Just because a teacher can be pointed to as being a founder does not mean their whole system of understanding the Bible is heretical....if what they teach can be supported by scripture it should be considered
I am not being smart but who or what system teaches you?

Lambano · Feb 2, 2025

Doug said:
Just because a teacher can be pointed to as being a founder does not mean their whole system of understanding the Bible is heretical....if what they teach can be supported by scripture it should be considered

Dispensationalism is not "supported by scripture"; it is a framework for interpreting the scripture. Historically, Dispensationalism has been a positive force in counterbalancing some of the more egregious antisemitism that has plagued Christianity over the centuries. It certainly deserves credit for that.

My own objection to this system is that it renders Jesus irrelevant. Jesus's only role is as an atoning sacrifice; He is no longer a Person to love.

My hope is that you will fall in love with Jesus, and not a system about Jesus. Some things are more important than just getting saved.

Doug · Feb 2, 2025

Lambano said:
Dispensationalism is not "supported by scripture";

[1Co 9:17 KJV] 17 For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation [of the gospel] is committed unto me.
[Eph 1:10 KJV] 10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; [even] in him:
[Eph 3:2 KJV] 2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
[Col 1:25 KJV] 25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

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