When the Son of Man Comes:

Douggg said:

Jay, provide a copy and paste of the text that you are claiming Matthew 16:28 has the words "second death". Also provide a link to where you do the copy and paste.

Here is the Greek for "taste of death" - γεύσωνται θανάτου

Matthew 16:28 Parallel Greek Texts

Matthew 16:28 Greek Text Analysis

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Douggg, there is no need for me to provide you with the words, "second death" as those who are judged unrighteous during the GWTR judgement after they have seen Christ coming in His Kingdom have only one outcome, they will be dispatched into the Lake of fire which is the second death.

So, what Jesus was stating inferred the Second death will only be experienced by those who are deemed to be unrighteous when He come to judge all of the peoples of the earth, from Adam until the last person born just before He comes in all of His Glory.

So, what Jesus was inferring was that some of those of those standing around Him would not taste death until after they are judged as being unrighteous and not live. So, if they do not live but die, then the death they will experience at that time will be the second death.

Goodbye

Jay Ross said:

Douggg, there is no need for me to provide you with the words, "second death" as those who are judged unrighteous during the GWTR judgement after they have seen Christ coming in His Kingdom have only one outcome, they will be dispatched into the Lake of fire which is the second death.

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Jay, you wrote, in your post #119, ...

"But in the Greek text from which this verse was translated, it does. The Translators could not get their heads around this fact. Your argument is flawed based on the incorrect translation of this verse."

Jay, you cannot back up your statement with a copy and paste of the Greek text of Matthew 16:28 that you claim has "second death" in that verse. Because you made it up ? right ?

Jay Ross said:

So, what Jesus was stating inferred the Second death will only be experienced by those who are deemed to be unrighteous when He come to judge all of the peoples of the earth, from Adam until the last person born just before He comes in all of His Glory.

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Jay, the second death is not in Matthew 16:28. Nor did Jesus infer the second death.

So, what Jesus was inferring was that some of those of those standing around Him would not taste death until after they are judged as being unrighteous and not live. So, if they do not live but die, then the death they will experience at that time will be the second death

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Jay, you are not making any sense at all.

Jesus said that some of those presence when he spoke the words of Matthew 16:28 would not taste death till they see him coming in his kingdom.

Matthew 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

Douggg said:

Jay, the second death is not in Matthew 16:28. Nor did Jesus infer the second death.



Jay, you are not making any sense at all.

Jesus said that some of those presence when he spoke the words of Matthew 16:28 would not taste death till they see him coming in his kingdom.

Matthew 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

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Douggg, you like making bold statements without having your laughing matter engaged at all. If Jesus was not referring to the second death, then how soon was Jesus referring to, that He was coming in His Kingdom, was it 10 years, 40 years or was He referring to around 3,000 years? Remember that the people standing with Christ, when He made this statement, all physically died/drew their last breath and were buried or placed in a tomb.

If Jesus was referring to a distant future time period of around 3,000 years after He had made this statement, all those standing around Jesus at that time would have died, then they would have been resurrected and given new bodies to rise up to meet Jesus in the air. Remember what Daniel said in Daniel 12:1-4: -


Was not the shame and everlasting contempt the second death?

Douggg, when your reasoning powers return, come back to me with your thought. All that you are doing at the moment is removing all doubt about your ability to understand the scriptures.

Goodbye

Douggg said:

In Acts 1:9, some of his disciples, called apostles in Acts 1:2, saw Jesus leave this world from the mount of Olives

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He ascended in Bethany, near the Mount but not from the Mount itself.

Luk 24:50 And he led them out as far as to Bethany, and he lifted up his hands, and blessed them.
Luk 24:51 And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.

Jay Ross said:

Douggg, you like making bold statements without having your laughing matter engaged at all. If Jesus was not referring to the second death, then how soon was Jesus referring to, that He was coming in His Kingdom, was it 10 years, 40 years or was He referring to around 3,000 years?

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Between Matthew 16:28 and Acts 1:9 when Jesus left this world to come in his kingdom in heaven in Daniel 7:13-14, roughly three years passed.

Jay Ross said:

If Jesus was referring to a distant future time period of around 3,000 years after He had made this statement, all those standing around Jesus at that time would have died, then they would have been resurrected and given new bodies to rise up to meet Jesus in the air. Remember what Daniel said in Daniel 12:1-4: -

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Jesus was not referring to the distant future, but roughly three years from when Jesus spoke in Matthew 16:28.

ewq1938 said:

He ascended in Bethany, near the Mount but not from the Mount itself.

Luk 24:50 And he led them out as far as to Bethany, and he lifted up his hands, and blessed them.
Luk 24:51 And it came to pass, while he blessed them, he was parted from them, and carried up into heaven.

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In Acts 1:3, it indicates that Jesus appeared to the disciples at different times during a forty day period following his resurrection.

Acts 1:3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:

During that forty days Jesus was teaching the apostles (as they were then called) about the kingdom of God - so that they would be informed and be filled with the Holy Spirit when they went out from Jerusalem to preach the gospel of the kingdom.

Here are some of the events of the forty days...

There is the village of Emmaus in Luke 24:13, (10-12 km, about 7 miles, from Jerusalem) that the disciples decided to met together to discuss what the women has reported to them about discovering the empty tomb of Jesus.

In Luke 24:15, Jesus appeared to the disciples on the their way Emmaus (but Jesus was not immediately recognized by them). Once they got to Emmaus, in Luke 24:29, when Jesus ate with them, and broke the bread and blessed it - when He did, their eyes were suddenly opened that it was actually Jesus, Luke 24:31. Then he vanished out of their sight.

In Luke 24:33, the disciples returned to Jersusalem.

Then in Luke 24:36, Jesus again appeared to the disciples. This time, Jesus opened their understanding of the scriptures in Luke 24:44-48.

Then in Luke 24:49, Jesus told the disciples to wait in Jerusalem, until they receive the power from high, i.e receive the Holy Spirit.

The in Luke 24:50 Jesus and disciples, having ate together, walked together together to as far as to Bethany (I think we can assume that they talked about many thing on the way). (from Wikipedia - "The town is located on the southeastern slope of the Mount of Olives, less than 2 miles (3.2 km) from Jerusalem."

Was Bathany where Jesus left this world in Acts 1 ? Well it does not say anything about the two angels appearing to the disciples after Jesus ascended up in cloud in Luke 24:50-51. Nor any of the discussion of Acts 1:6-9.

What I think is that Luke did not give all the information, but wrote in an abbreviated form, that left out that Jesus actually ascended from the Mt. of Olives.

When Jesus returns in Zechariah 14, it is for certain that He stands on the Mt. of Olives - and not somewhere in Bethany.

Keraz said:

The unexpected 'coming of the Lord', is not the glorious Return, but the terrible Day when He sends His fiery wrath. Psalms 11:4-6 and many other Prophesies about that Day - the next Prophesied event.

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Yes.

Amo 5:18 Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light.

@ewq1938

Here is a photo I copied off a Google image search of Bethany. If you look to the right, the edge of Bethany is right a the top of the mount of Olives. So Bethany, part of it, and the Mt. of Olives is essentially the same spot where Jesus left this world in Acts 1.

Douggg said:

If you look to the right, the edge of Bethany is right a the top of the mount of Olives.

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Bethany is not on any part of the Mt of Olives. It is near it though.

Douggg said:

Between Matthew 16:28 and Acts 1:9 when Jesus left this world to come in his kingdom in heaven in Daniel 7:13-14, roughly three years passed.


Jesus was not referring to the distant future, but roughly three years from when Jesus spoke in Matthew 16:28.

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Douggg, your lack of understanding knows no bounds.

When is the time of these Kings in Daniel 2, when God said that He would establish His Everlasting Kingdom, which would never be overrun by any other entity.

I know from history that the Roman Empire had no dominion over the land of Babylon because the Seleucid Greek Empire had desolated and devastated the land of Babylon around 120 BC, some 60 years before the Roman Empire started to establish itself as a world power around the Mediterranean Sea and then further afield. Josephus records this in his history writings.

Nor is there a revived Roman Empire which many suggest is the EU which has had dominion over the Land of Babylon.

History tells that in 1926 Iraq was given dominion over the Land of Babylon by both the British and French government when they were dividing up the Otterman Empire between them.

Also, in 2003 a coalition of some 20 countries formed what was often referred to as the Coalition of the Willing entered Iraq and established a "democracy" in Iraq in an attempt to heal the land. Jer 50.

In around 20 years' time from now, it is my understanding that God's Everlasting Kingdom will be established here on the earth.

Again, you are clutching at straws which have no strength to hold up any justifiable reasoning.

Goodbye

Jay Ross said:

When is the time of these Kings in Daniel 2, when God said that He would establish His Everlasting Kingdom, which would never be overrun by any other entity.

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Daniel 2:42-44, that is here on earth in the end times, when Jesus returns that the kingdom of God becomes the ruling kingdom here on earth.

Back in the first century, at the time of the disciples, Jesus came into His kingdom of heaven in heaven in Daniel 7:13-14.

13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

ewq1938 said:

Bethany is not on any part of the Mt of Olives. It is near it though.

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I provided a photo. The map you show is drawing that someone made over laid on a topography rendition. According that person's drawing, the width of Bethany was 700 ft x 200 ft wide. The drawing is inaccurate.

Do you agree that when Jesus returns in Zechariah 14, that He stands on the Mt. of Olives splitting it in half ?

Douggg said:

I provided a photo. The map you show is drawing that someone made over laid on a topography rendition. According that person's drawing, the width of Bethany was 700 ft x 200 ft wide. The drawing is inaccurate.

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No, the map is accurate. Check any map. Bethany is not on the Mount.

Douggg said:

Do you agree that when Jesus returns in Zechariah 14, that He stands on the Mt. of Olives splitting it in half ?

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I don't believe that depicts the second coming of Christ.

Keraz said:

It just doesn't say when.
Do you deny that it is Revelation 20:11-15 that tells us when - all will be raised. At the final Judgment, a thousand years after Jesus Returns.

Any fanciful ideas of anyone receiving immortality before they stand before God and the Book of Life is opened, is false and cannot happen.

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Life and Judgment Are Through the Son​

24 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life. 25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live. 26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself, 27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. 30 I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the Father who sent Me.

Jesus says they do have eternal life when they believe in Him, so then immortality,

Jesus describes the resurrection as all being resurrected together with different destinies.

Did Jesus lie!

ewq1938 said:

No, the map is accurate. Check any map. Bethany is not on the Mount.

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Wikipedia says on the southeastern slope of the Mount of Olives. If you were talking about the very peak of the mount of Olives - no.

ewq1938 said:

I don't believe that depicts the second coming of Christ.

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What ? You don't believe that Zechariah 14:4 is talking about Jesus's return, His Second Coming ? When do you think Zechariah 14:4, the splitting of the mount of Olives is going to take place ?

Zechariah 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

Douggg said:

Daniel 2:42-44, that is here on earth in the end times, when Jesus returns that the kingdom of God becomes the ruling kingdom here on earth.

Back in the first century, at the time of the disciples, Jesus came into His kingdom of heaven in heaven in Daniel 7:13-14.

13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed.

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Douggg, if what you say is true, then when were the beasts judged in Daniel 7:11-12? Have the beasts lost their dominions yet after the fourth beast is slain, as foretold in Daniel 7:11-12: -



If what you say is true, then there should be no beasts alive on the earth.

In Ezekiel 34:25-30 God promises to remove the Beasts of Daniel 7:1-12 from the face of the earth so that the nation of Israel will have peace after their return to the Lord in repentance.



The question that needs to be nswered is, when does God begin gathering Israel to Himself, and when are the beasts removed from the face of the earth and for how long will the be gone from the face of the earth?

Goodbye

Jay Ross said:

Daniel 7:11-12: - 11 "I watched then because of the sound of the pompous words which the horn was speaking; I watched till the beast was slain, and its body destroyed and given to the burning flame. 12 As for the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away, yet their lives were prolonged for a season and a time.

If what you say is true, then there should be no beasts alive on the earth.

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Jay, Daniel 7:11-12 was part of the unexplained portion of Daniel's dream, i.e. verses 1-15. The explained portion begins in verse 16.

In verse 18, Daniel is informed the saints will possess (inherit) the kingdom of heaven that was given to the Son of Man, Jesus, in verses 13-14.,

In verse 19-21, Daniel is informed the fourth beast, under it's little horn leader and its other ten horn kings, will make war against the saints and prevail against the saints....until God executes judgment on the fourth beast and its little horn and its other ten horn kings in verse 22.

In verse 23-24, Daniel is informed more detail about the fourth beast as being the fourth kingdom upon the earth. And at the time of the ten kings, which the little horn then appears and become the leader over the fourth kingdom and ten kings.

In verse 25, Daniel is informed that the little horn will wear out the saints, and be given into his hand for a time, times, half time.

In verse 26, after the time, times, half time, God's judgement will be executed on the little horn to end his time, and destroy his kingdom.

After which, in verse 27, the saints inherit the kingdom of heaven as it comes to earth to have dominion over all the nations.

The verses about the little horn, the ten kings, and their kingdom are all end times. And are portrayed in Revelation as being the ten horns on the beast kingdom of Revelation 13. And the little horn person as one of the seven heads of the fourth kingdom. The fourth kingdom historically is the Roman Empire. In the end times, the Roman Empire is manifested as the EU.

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In verse 28, Daniel wrote that he thought deeply about it all, but kept his thoughts to himself. Daniel did not have, what we have in Revelation, so it was not really possible for him to figure it all out.

Jay Ross said:

In Ezekiel 34:25-30 God promises to remove the Beasts of Daniel 7:1-12 from the face of the earth so that the nation of Israel will have peace after the return to the Lord in repentance.

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The promises that God makes in those verses are end times. And will be ultimately fulfilled in the 1000 year millennium reign of Christ.

The beginning of the end times was when Israel became a nation again in the land of Israel in May 14, 1948.

Douggg said:

Wikipedia says on the southeastern slope of the Mount of Olives.

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Wikipedia is not evidence. Go look at various maps. Bethany is not on the Mount and the bible literally says they were in Bethany when he ascended.