Why Did Jesus Have to Die?

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bro.tan

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Jesus Christ came into the world, a world He had co-created with His Father. But, the world did not recognize Him. Instead, He was deemed to be worthy of death. Why did Jesus allow Himself to be treated in this way?

Jesus brought grace when he came in the flesh, but example of grace was in the days of Noah. But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. (Genesis 6:8), And Noah and his family was saved. Not save from eternal life, but saved from the flood. This is why Jesus had to come. Paul says in Hebrews 9: 26 for then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Now Paul said in (Rom. 3:23-25) (v.23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. (v.24) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

(v.25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God.

So the bible tells you to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2 :36-38). And by doing so you come up under his precious blood and then you are saved from your sins that are past, not present or future sins but for sins that are past. We were all locked under death by Adam’s sin, even the second death, which is the lake of fire. But when Jesus became (he was God in the beginning) man and died for the sins of the world, he gave us access back to the tree of life (himself) which Adam had caused us to lose. That’s what grace is, our free gift our access back to the tree of life but that’s another lesson for another time.

So by coming under the blood of Jesus being baptize, you are saved from your past sins. And if you are saved now, it is on a day to day basis. Because for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God (Romans 23:3), and if you continue to live you will sin again. When the bible speaks of laws we no longer have to keep, it is speaking of the sacrificial laws and Priesthood laws. These animal sacrificial laws were a school master pointing us to the fact that Jesus would be sacrificed for our sins. Since Jesus died we are no longer under a school master, (required to offer up bulls and goats for our sins).

Now we must believe (have faith) Jesus died for us (Hebrews 10:4,9-10) 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. 9 then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

This doesn't mean we don't have to obey God's moral laws of conduct. That would be like a man getting paroled from prison and then ignoring the same laws that sent him to prison in the first place. Jesus only died once, so if we willingly break God's law, after accepting Jesus, our reward will be eternal damnation

It is the willful sinning that you need to put in check. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. (Hebrew 10: 26, 27)
 

pepper

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Jesus brought grace when he came in the flesh, but example of grace was in the days of Noah. But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD. (Genesis 6:8), And Noah and his family was saved. Not save from eternal life, but saved from the flood. This is why Jesus had to come. Paul says in Hebrews 9: 26 for then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

Now Paul said in (Rom. 3:23-25) (v.23) For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. (v.24) Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

(v.25) Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God.

So the bible tells you to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." (Acts 2 :36-38). And by doing so you come up under his precious blood and then you are saved from your sins that are past, not present or future sins but for sins that are past. We were all locked under death by Adam’s sin, even the second death, which is the lake of fire. But when Jesus became (he was God in the beginning) man and died for the sins of the world, he gave us access back to the tree of life (himself) which Adam had caused us to lose. That’s what grace is, our free gift our access back to the tree of life but that’s another lesson for another time.

So by coming under the blood of Jesus being baptize, you are saved from your past sins. And if you are saved now, it is on a day to day basis. Because for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God (Romans 23:3), and if you continue to live you will sin again. When the bible speaks of laws we no longer have to keep, it is speaking of the sacrificial laws and Priesthood laws. These animal sacrificial laws were a school master pointing us to the fact that Jesus would be sacrificed for our sins. Since Jesus died we are no longer under a school master, (required to offer up bulls and goats for our sins).

Now we must believe (have faith) Jesus died for us (Hebrews 10:4,9-10) 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. 9 then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

This doesn't mean we don't have to obey God's moral laws of conduct. That would be like a man getting paroled from prison and then ignoring the same laws that sent him to prison in the first place. Jesus only died once, so if we willingly break God's law, after accepting Jesus, our reward will be eternal damnation

It is the willful sinning that you need to put in check. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. (Hebrew 10: 26, 27)
One issue there. Jesus himself did not teach a grace gospel.
 

Lizbeth

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Really bad translation... the KJV has some errors and this is one of them.

Ezekiel 28:15 (speaking of lucifer)
Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Ezekiel 28:15 says the Lord created lucifer PERFECT and then later... iniquity was found in him.

So... which portion of scripture do you think is false?

Did God lie in James 1:13???

James 1:13
Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:


If it's true that God made lucifer to destroy meaning that was the purpose lucifer was created for... then James 1:13 is a lie, and Ezekiel 28:15 is a lie.... or, Isa 54:16 is an erroneous translation that claims God has evil in Him and He desires for evil to be upon mankind.

Those believing this are generating strife between themselves and the Lord by accusing Him of wrong doing and of being evil. I certainly wouldn't want to be that person on judgement day as they'll be going south not north!

But, due to satan's deception... many today believe lies about the Lord.

If God needed something destroyed (like when He destroyed the enemies of Israel in the OT), He has His own angels to do that.... satan and his demons are self employed, they do NOT work for the Lord View attachment 57436







Let God's Word provide it's own commentary by seeing what He said about this all across His Word... and quit listening to the devil.

God did create all things... but because luficfer decided to rebel, some of the things God created became evil... this does NOT mean God created these things to be evil... if He did, then that makes Him evil... which is exactly what satan is trying to accomplish among people

Did you not see what Jesus said about the devil????

John 10:10
The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.


Anything that kills... steals... or destroys... come from the devil.

One should ask themselves... did Jesus lie in John 10:10, or does Jesus actually know what He's talking about View attachment 57437
God's sovereignty isn't easy to understand. He foreknew what Lucifer would do before He created him. The Lord also foreknew what Adam & Eve would do before He created them and the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. AND He already had a plan and solution...the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world.
 

Dan Clarkston

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God's sovereignty isn't easy to understand. He foreknew what Lucifer would do before He created him. The Lord also foreknew what Adam & Eve would do before He created them and the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. AND He already had a plan and solution...the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world.

Yes and God's sovereignty did not cause or even allow these things to happen

In His sovereignty He created man in His Own Image... and as such we have free will just like God does

Because of this, God must allow man to exercise free will which includes suffering the consequences of his actions.
WHY must He???.... Because He's the One that decided to set things up this way.

This does not mean it is God's will for evil to exist... we know that because in the end all evil is going to be locked up in hell... there is NO evil or darkness in God and in the end His people will be living IN Him

Seedtime and harvest is actually genius as it dictates that any seed sown (word, thoughts, actions, etc are all like seeds) that are in opposition to God... causes separation from God.

Of course in His mercy while we are still, breathing on this earth we have opportunity to repent and forsake our sin... but those that don't will spend eternity in hell with satan and his demons since everything produces after it's own kind meaning.... opposition to God results in receiving the devil's reward.

This is really not hard to understand at all if the Holy Ghost is the Teacher Who always leads us in to all Truth... God's Word IS Truth. Now, if one starts listing to religious organizations and their false teachers then it's nothing but confusion because satan is behind those sources of information and he's the author of confusion
 

Lizbeth

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Yes and God's sovereignty did not cause or even allow these things to happen

In His sovereignty He created man in His Own Image... and as such we have free will just like God does

Because of this, God must allow man to exercise free will which includes suffering the consequences of his actions.
WHY must He???.... Because He's the One that decided to set things up this way.

This does not mean it is God's will for evil to exist... we know that because in the end all evil is going to be locked up in hell... there is NO evil or darkness in God and in the end His people will be living IN Him

Seedtime and harvest is actually genius as it dictates that any seed sown (word, thoughts, actions, etc are all like seeds) that are in opposition to God... causes separation from God.

Of course in His mercy while we are still, breathing on this earth we have opportunity to repent and forsake our sin... but those that don't will spend eternity in hell with satan and his demons since everything produces after it's own kind meaning.... opposition to God results in receiving the devil's reward.

This is really not hard to understand at all if the Holy Ghost is the Teacher Who always leads us in to all Truth... God's Word IS Truth. Now, if one starts listing to religious organizations and their false teachers then it's nothing but confusion because satan is behind those sources of information and he's the author of confusion
Yes Satan is behind the evil in this world, but God (Christ) is over him. I'm amazed at the Lord's ability to rule and reign sovereignly over everything without ever doing wrong. But I wont' argue with you at length about this. Just will leave you with these scriptures to consider:

Rom 13:1
Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

Jhn 19:11
Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.

Col 2:10
And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
 
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pepper

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God's sovereignty isn't easy to understand. He foreknew what Lucifer would do before He created him. The Lord also foreknew what Adam & Eve would do before He created them and the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil. AND He already had a plan and solution...the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world.
You're right. God is Sovereign and has dominion over His creation.

Something that is hard for some to understand.

Many worship the god they prefer. Not the God that is all that He tells us He is.
 
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Johann

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I'm more interested in hearing everyone's thoughts on why He had to suffer.
Starting here--remember that sufferings is in the Present tense, ongoing, a part of the believer.

1 Peter 4:12-16
Beloved, do not think it strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened to you; but rejoice to the extent that you partake of Christ's sufferings, that when His glory is revealed, you may also be glad with exceeding joy. If you are reproached for the name of Christ, blessed are you, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests upon you. On their part He is blasphemed, but on your part He is glorified. But let none of you suffer as a murderer, a thief, an evildoer, or as a busybody in other people's matters. Yet if anyone suffers as a Christian, let him not be ashamed, but let him glorify God in this matter.

1 Peter 2:19-21
For this is commendable, if because of conscience toward God one endures grief, suffering wrongfully. For what credit is it if, when you are beaten for your faults, you take it patiently? But when you do good and suffer, if you take it patiently, this is commendable before God. For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps:


Romans 8:17-27
and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him, that we may also be glorified together. For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now. Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance. Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

Philippians 3:10
that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death,

Philippians 1:29-30
For to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake, having the same conflict which you saw in me and now hear is in me.

2 Timothy 3:12-14
Yes, and all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution. But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived. But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them,

1 Peter 3:14
But even if you should suffer for righteousness' sake, you are blessed. "And do not be afraid of their threats, nor be troubled."

1 Peter 4:1-2
Therefore, since Christ suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same mind, for he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin, that he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh for the lusts of men, but for the will of God.

Matthew 5:10-12
Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, For theirs is the kingdom of heaven. "Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake. Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

Philippians 3:8
Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ

1 Peter 3:17
For it is better, if it is the will of God, to suffer for doing good than for doing evil.

1 Peter 4:19
Therefore let those who suffer according to the will of God commit their souls to Him in doing good, as to a faithful Creator.

John 15:18-25
"If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you, 'A servant is not greater than his master.' If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you. If they kept My word, they will keep yours also. But all these things they will do to you for My name's sake, because they do not know Him who sent Me. If I had not come and spoken to them, they would have no sin, but now they have no excuse for their sin. He who hates Me hates My Father also. If I had not done among them the works which no one else did, they would have no sin; but now they have seen and also hated both Me and My Father. But this happened that the word might be fulfilled which is written in their law, 'They hated Me without a cause.'

Acts 5:41
So they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for His name.

2 Corinthians 1:5-7
For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation also abounds through Christ. Now if we are afflicted, it is for your consolation and salvation, which is effective for enduring the same sufferings which we also suffer. Or if we are comforted, it is for your consolation and salvation. And our hope for you is steadfast, because we know that as you are partakers of the sufferings, so also you will partake of the consolation.

2 Corinthians 4:16
Therefore we do not lose heart. Even though our outward man is perishing, yet the inward man is being renewed day by day.

2 Corinthians 11:24
From the Jews five times I received forty stripes minus one.

Galatians 2:20
I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.

Hebrews 5:7-9
who, in the days of His flesh, when He had offered up prayers and supplications, with vehement cries and tears to Him who was able to save Him from death, and was heard because of His godly fear, though He was a Son, yet He learned obedience by the things which He suffered. And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,

John 16:2
They will put you out of the synagogues; yes, the time is coming that whoever kills you will think that he offers God service.

1 Corinthians 4:9-13
For I think that God has displayed us, the apostles, last, as men condemned to death; for we have been made a spectacle to the world, both to angels and to men. We are fools for Christ's sake, but you are wise in Christ! We are weak, but you are strong! You are distinguished, but we are dishonored! To the present hour we both hunger and thirst, and we are poorly clothed, and beaten, and homeless. And we labor, working with our own hands. Being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we endure; being defamed, we entreat. We have been made as the filth of the world, the offscouring of all things until now.

2 Corinthians 4:8-11
We are hard-pressed on every side, yet not crushed; we are perplexed, but not in despair; persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed— always carrying about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our body. For we who live are always delivered to death for Jesus' sake, that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our mortal flesh.

1 Thessalonians 3:3
that no one should be shaken by these afflictions; for you yourselves know that we are appointed to this.

J.
 
J

Johann

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Good morning J
The question was about His suffering, not ours, but thanks for all the scripture.

I really wish I hadn't asked the question, if you continue on in the thread, you'll see we kinda covered it.

My phones dying and its 3:am here. Have a blessed day bro.
Isaiah 53 a good place to start then.

Jesus suffered severely throughout His trials, torture, and crucifixion (Matthew 27; Mark 15; Luke 23; John 19). His suffering was physical: Isaiah 52:14 declares, “There were many who were appalled at Him—His appearance was so disfigured beyond that of any man and his form marred beyond human likeness.” His suffering was emotional: “All the disciples deserted him and fled” (Matthew 26:56). His suffering was spiritual: “God made him who had no sin to be sin for us” (2 Corinthians 5:21). Jesus had the weight of the sins of the entire world on Him (1 John 2:2). It was our sin that caused Jesus to cry out, “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?” (Matthew 27:46). Jesus’ brutal physical suffering was augmented by His having to bear the guilt of our sins and die to pay our penalty (Romans 5:8).

Isaiah predicted Jesus’ suffering: “He was despised and rejected by men, a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering. Like one from whom men hide their faces he was despised, and we esteemed him not. But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed” (Isaiah 53:3, 5). This passage specifies the reason for Jesus’ suffering: “for our transgressions,” for our healing, and to bring us peace.

Jesus told His disciples that His suffering was certain: “The Son of Man must suffer many things and be rejected by the elders, the chief priests and the teachers of the law, and he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life” (Luke 9:22; cf. 17:25). Note the word must—He must suffer, and He must be killed. The suffering of Christ was God’s plan for the salvation of the world.

Psalm 22:14–18 details some of the suffering of the Messiah: “I am poured out like water, and all my bones are out of joint. My heart has turned to wax; it has melted away within me. My strength is dried up like a potsherd, and my tongue sticks to the roof of my mouth; you lay me in the dust of death. Dogs have surrounded me; a band of evil men has encircled me, they have pierced my hands and my feet. I can count all my bones; people stare and gloat over me. They divide my garments among them and cast lots for my clothing.” In order for this and other prophecies to be fulfilled, Jesus had to suffer.

Why did Jesus have to suffer so badly?

The principle of the innocent dying for the guilty was established in the garden of Eden: Adam and Eve received garments of animal skin to cover their shame (Genesis 3:21)—thus, blood was shed in Eden. Later, this principle was set in the Mosaic Law: “It is the blood that makes atonement for one’s life” (Leviticus 17:11; cf. Hebrews 9:22). Jesus had to suffer because suffering is part of sacrifice, and Jesus was “the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!” (John 1:29). Jesus’ physical torture was part of the payment required for our sins. We are redeemed “with the precious blood of Christ, a lamb without blemish or defect” (1 Peter 1:19).

Jesus’ suffering on the cross showed the devastating nature of sin, the wrath of God, the cruelty of humanity, and the hatred of Satan. At Calvary, mankind was allowed to do his worst to the Son of Man as He became the Redeemer of mankind. Satan may have thought he had won a great victory, but it was through the cross that the Son of God triumphed over Satan, sin, and death. “Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out” (John 12:31; cf. Colossians 2:15).

Jesus suffered and died in order to secure salvation for all who would believe. The night of His arrest, as Jesus prayed in Gethsemane, He committed His all to the task: “Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done” (Luke 22:42). The cup of suffering was not taken from Christ; He drank it all for us. There was no other way for us to be saved.

God bless.

J.
 

PGS11

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If he didn't sacrifice himself and raise his soul to heaven which is why he came no one would be able to go to heaven all would be condemned to hell.
 
J

Johann

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Hello Laurina,
Thanks again for that scripture reference. I meant to mention this earlier but I was pressed for time. And then I saw you posted yet another verse from the book of Hebrews. I never got too deep into Hebrews until last year when I found an Exposition on the Book of Hebrews by A.W. Pink. It is probably the most Christ honoring book I have ever read. Its rather lengthy, and beefy. I've only made it to chapter 5 thus far, but it has been a huge blessing to me. Just thought I would pass that along.
I must ask-are your doctrines of Scripture derived from the Reformers?

J.
 

Lizbeth

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@Simonides - I believe Jesus suffered (on our behalf) due to all the curses of the sins of mankind that were laid on Him. Suffering is part of the curse of sin.
 
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Johann

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@Simonides - I believe Jesus suffered (on our behalf) due to all the curses of the sins of mankind that were laid on Him. Suffering is part of the curse of sin.
Just want to add this profound chapter @Lizbeth.


Isa 53:1 Who has believed our report? And to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?
Isa 53:2 For He shall grow up before Him as a tender plant, And as a root out of dry ground. He has no form or comeliness; And when we see Him, There is no beauty that we should desire Him.
Isa 53:3 He is despised and rejected by men, A Man of sorrows and acquainted with grief. And we hid, as it were, our faces from Him; He was despised, and we did not esteem Him.
Isa 53:4 Surely He has borne our griefs And carried our sorrows; Yet we esteemed Him stricken, Smitten by God, and afflicted.
Isa 53:5 But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities; The chastisement for our peace was upon Him, And by His stripes we are healed.
Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned, every one, to his own way; And the LORD has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.
Isa 53:7 He was oppressed and He was afflicted, Yet He opened not His mouth; He was led as a lamb to the slaughter, And as a sheep before its shearers is silent, So He opened not His mouth.
Isa 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment, And who will declare His generation? For He was cut off from the land of the living; For the transgressions of My people He was stricken.
Isa 53:9 And they made His grave with the wicked—But with the rich at His death, Because He had done no violence, Nor was any deceit in His mouth.
Isa 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise Him; He has put Him to grief. When You make His soul an offering for sin, He shall see His seed, He shall prolong His days, And the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in His hand.
Isa 53:11 He shall see the labor of His soul, and be satisfied. By His knowledge My righteous Servant shall justify many, For He shall bear their iniquities.

Isa 53:12 Therefore I will divide Him a portion with the great, And He shall divide the spoil with the strong, Because He poured out His soul unto death, And He was numbered with the transgressors, And He bore the sin of many, And made intercession for the transgressors.

--and thank God that Messiah did that in our stead.

J.
 
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Lizbeth

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Just want to add this profound chapter @Lizbeth.


Isa 53:1 Who has believed our report? And to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?
Isa 53:2 For He shall grow up before Him as a tender plant, And as a root out of dry ground. He has no form or comeliness; And when we see Him, There is no beauty that we should desire Him.
Isa 53:3 He is despised and rejected by men, A Man of sorrows and acquainted with grief. And we hid, as it were, our faces from Him; He was despised, and we did not esteem Him.
Isa 53:4 Surely He has borne our griefs And carried our sorrows; Yet we esteemed Him stricken, Smitten by God, and afflicted.
Isa 53:5 But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities; The chastisement for our peace was upon Him, And by His stripes we are healed.
Isa 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned, every one, to his own way; And the LORD has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.
Isa 53:7 He was oppressed and He was afflicted, Yet He opened not His mouth; He was led as a lamb to the slaughter, And as a sheep before its shearers is silent, So He opened not His mouth.
Isa 53:8 He was taken from prison and from judgment, And who will declare His generation? For He was cut off from the land of the living; For the transgressions of My people He was stricken.
Isa 53:9 And they made His grave with the wicked—But with the rich at His death, Because He had done no violence, Nor was any deceit in His mouth.
Isa 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise Him; He has put Him to grief. When You make His soul an offering for sin, He shall see His seed, He shall prolong His days, And the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in His hand.
Isa 53:11 He shall see the labor of His soul, and be satisfied. By His knowledge My righteous Servant shall justify many, For He shall bear their iniquities.

Isa 53:12 Therefore I will divide Him a portion with the great, And He shall divide the spoil with the strong, Because He poured out His soul unto death, And He was numbered with the transgressors, And He bore the sin of many, And made intercession for the transgressors.

--and thank God that Messiah did that in our stead.

J.
Amen. Thank you Jesus. We may never know the half of what He suffered, soul and body, in bearing all the curses of all the sins of the entire world.
 
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Dan Clarkston

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Yes satan is behind the evil in this world, but God (Christ) is over him.

Sadly is sounds as though you believe God is OK with satan attacking people and he directed him to do so since you indicated you believe God created the devil for the purposes of bring evil upon mankind.

That's what those that have been influenced by the calvinist cult believe even if they claim to not be calvinist. Very sad that some folks think God is evil like that and Rom 13:1, Jhn 19:11, Col 2:10 aren't even related to what we are talking about.




I must ask-are your doctrines of Scripture derived from the Reformers?

The so called "reformers" must have lost their bibles... they FAILED to simply go back to God's Word.

They were too corrupted by doctrines of the catholic cult to actually understand God's Word clueless-doh.gif
 

Lambano

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Sadly is sounds as though you believe God is OK with satan attacking people and he directed him to do so since you indicated you believe God created the devil for the purposes of bring evil upon mankind.
What WAS God's purpose in creating Satan? Didn't He know Satan would turn to the Dark Side? Does God have a plan, or is He just winging it?
 

marks

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I'm more interested in hearing everyone's thoughts on why He had to suffer.
Suffering is the true test of obedience. When your obedience brings suffering, and you continue to obey, even though that suffering gets worse and worse.

Much love!
 
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Lambano

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acts2_23.jpg
 

Pierac

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G'day Pierac,
Would you consider that God doesn't need death to satisfy anything. Death is as foreign to God as light is from darkness. Why on earth would God want death?
God is far far above the pitiful rational of fallen man who glorify death as 'sacred'; as if God requires payment.
Who am I to say?

Isa 6:5 Then I said, "Woe is me, for I am ruined! Because I am a man of unclean lips, And I live among a people of unclean lips; For my eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts." 6 Then one of the seraphim flew to me with a burning coal in his hand, which he had taken from the altar with tongs. 7 He touched my mouth with it and said, "Behold, this has touched your lips; and your iniquity is taken away and your sin is forgiven."


I AM... convinced your Pastor would not agree with Isa 6:5-7... Would you not agree... I can tell from your post!

How do you not know these things?