Which brings me back to the question....what is REALLY saved vs ongoing need to repent, pray, etc. In the process of sanctification.?
Who determines whether a person isn't really saved and those who are going through the process of sanctification?
Once Saved Always Saved
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Who determines whether a person isn't really saved and those who are going through the process of sanctification?
2 Peter 2:20-21
"For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them."
I think the term is "backslidden "....but Our Father is a merciful God and as He promised to heal the backsliding of Israel...He will also do the same for us today.
“"I will heal their backsliding, I will love them freely, For My anger has turned away from him.”
— Hos 14:4 (NKJV)
Great question!
"he was invigorated to the belief", or, as Young translates,
Romans 4:20 YLT
20) and at the promise of God did not stagger in unbelief, but was strengthened in faith, having given glory to God,
God is glorifed because God made Abraham strong in faith.
Much love!
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
I'm not talking about that.
I'm asking a certain question, Why is it that saved people continue to have faith?
The person who continues in their confidence to the end . . . why do they do that? What makes it so that a person is faithful to the end? Believes to the end? Endures to the end? Why do God's children do that?
Much love!
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Because they want to. The Bible tells us the reason to want to is good.......
Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful. Hebrews 10:23
since we have a great high priest who has ascended into heaven, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. Hebrews 4:14
It's good to be reminded of this so we will want to continue to believe to the very end.since we have a great high priest who has ascended into heaven, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess. Hebrews 4:14
You make it up to you whether you stay saved or not, I don't care what semantical whatevers you want to employ,
If you determine whether or not you stay saved by whether or not you allow the the implanted Word to remain in you, then you determine whether or not you "stay saved".
You are thinking that you have power over your nature, and that you can "undo", or force God to "undo" your rebirth.
And you employ a fiction about a "child of God" who ceases to believe in God and becomes unborn.
Much love!
This seems so glib and insubstantial I'm going to need a moment . . .
Much love!
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Which is the fiction? A child of God who ceases to believe, or a child of God who becomes unborn again?
I think many who are fixated on eradicating sins on the belief that they must in order to remain saved have shallow ideas about what sin really is. They focus on their behaviors and thoughts without even realizing the mindset itself is of the flesh.
Much love!
Who mentioned "works gospel"? You did. As a red herring?
If you determine whether or not you stay saved by whether or not you allow the the implanted Word to remain in you, then you determine whether or not you "stay saved".
Are you saying this isn't true?
Much love!
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
'Simple' is the better word. Long winded people in the church who over think things and write long commentaries have made it seem like this is so complicated and that much energy and thought is required to understand it. Over thinking and long windedness is necessary when one is straining to make the scriptures fit the doctrinal outcome they prefer over what the Bible actually says.
Illuminator
Well-Known Member
You disagree because you separate Christ from His Church (that has men in it). The Bible doesn't do that.
Peter is not equating the common man, he is talking about ignorant and unstable Christians who twist and distort Paul's letters to their own destruction.
What distinguished the Catholic reformers of the 16th century from the Protestants was their method. The Protestants thought that they had a way of knowing the doctrines and practices of the Apostolic Church without recourse to the Church's magisterium, which they believed was discredited.
Their recourse was to literary analysis. It is part of the Protestant tradition to suspend judgment on doctrine until the individual is satisfied that he can find it in the Scriptures, for "the whole counsel of God, concerning all things necessary for his own glory, man's salvation, faith and life is either expressly set down in Scripture, or by good and necessary consequence may be deduced from Scripture" (WCF 1:6).
No religious teacher, not even the Church, deserves credence unless he teaches what the reader, enlightened by the Spirit, finds in the Scriptures. The believer therefore must set for himself that this or that doctrine is true. Before he accepts it, he weighs the doctrine in the balance of his own understanding of the Scriptures.
This is just the reverse of the Catholic's approach to belief. As the Catholic sees it, he must accept God on God's terms and not his own, which means to accept it from the hands of God's authorized teacher. It is not for him to "judge" the divine message but only to receive it. The basic difference between Catholic and non-Catholic approach to religious truth is that the non-Catholic constructs it, while the Catholic receives it so that no construction is called for or even in place of.
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Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Oh, so you're saying "you determine whether or not you 'stay saved'" is not a works gospel? Then what exactly is your problem with it?
If you are the one determining whether or not you remain saved, reborn, then Who is God to say that He is keeping you by His power? Your's is greater! Who is God to say that you WILL appear with Christ, you who have died and raised with Him? He's not the One Who determines that, you are! Who is God to say that No One can remove you from His hand if you say that you can?
But you are not the one determining whether you "stay saved". God has promised, and He will keep His Word.
Much love!
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
I'm saying man has his responsibility in accepting and retaining the word of the gospel. But he can't do anything without God's grace to make it available to him and enable him to receive it.
Ferris Bueller
Well-Known Member
Because you can wish all you want but it is God who gives you the opportunity and power to be saved and remain saved. Without that grace you can't determine anything. That's why he gets all the glory in this, not you or I.
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