Once Saved Always Saved

[Charlie24]

Actually, I'm not keeping the covenant of Law that God gave to Israel, and they weren't trusting in Jesus to impute to them righteousness.

So I don't think your statement really gives the right idea.

If you were to qualify it to, we are all saved by trusting in God's word to us, then I'd agree.

Remember . . . Abraham believed God, and that belief was counted to him as righteousness. What was it Abraham believed? That he'd have lots of children.

Much love!

He believed in the coming Messiah, we know this because Jesus said, "Abraham saw my day, and was glad in it."

He looked forward to the Messiah, we look back at the Messiah.

We are all saved by faith in Christ!

 

[BreadOfLife]

Full knowledge, Experienced Knowledge and Rational Knowledge... Equals What?

A Converted man?

Epignosis is "Full, experiential and relational knowledge".
This is not unlike the kowledge betewwen a husband and wife.

They are as truly married as a person with Epignossis of Christ is truly converted.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Let's see, I'm a false prophet in need of repenting, and now I'm not saved.

All because I don't agree with you, hmmmm, seems I've seen this kind of thing before!

Dude you have serious listening problems. I never made such a claim.

Your the one who gets angry when someone disagrees with you. Its time you fess up and stop yelling at others for doing what you did.

Whats amazing is you did not even respond to my comment. This just proves my point.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You are attempting to apply the terms of Covenant of Law between God and Israel to the New Covenant children of God.

The one who keeps the Law will live by that.

However, in the New Covenant, we are saved through faith in Christ, and not by any works we have done.

If you carefully examine Ezekiel 18, you will see this describes a person under the covenant of Law. There is nothing there in the chapter about faith in Christ, rebirth, imputed righteousness, nothing of those.

Salvation under the covenant of Law was a very different thing from salvation in the New Covenant. Scripture tells us the New Covenant is built on "better promises".

Much love!

There was no salvation under the covenant of the law. By the law no man was justified.

They were saved same us by grace through faith..

 

[marks]

He believed in the coming Messiah, we know this because Jesus said, "Abraham saw my day, and was glad in it."

Abraham of course met Christ, and served Him a meal.

Just the same . . .

Genesis 15:4-6 KJV
4) And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.
5) And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.
6) And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

Much love!

 

[Taken]

Epignosis is "Full, experiential and relational knowledge".
This is not unlike the kowledge betewwen a husband and wife.

They are as truly married as a person with Epignossis of Christ is truly converted.

Disagree.
No one has full knowledge of the Lord God.
Conversion is defined by Jesus....and BY the way, Rational thought comes from the MIND, to be told something, and read that the Scripture SAYS what they have been Told.

Conversion has nothing to DO with the MINDS rational logical thoughts.

Trust Scriptural Truth...
Rom 10:
[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[10] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

I wonder what this means......” If we are UNFAITHFUL, He Remains Faithful.....”......

“NOTHING in ALL CREATION can separate us from the Love Of God “

I assume NOTHING means “ NOTHING” ....
That would include anything that we do or do not do......

Peter flat-out denied even “ knowing” Jesus.....Jesus forgave him...Peter suffered torment from his denial of Jesus, But Jesus, Even after this “ golden opportunity” to Cast somebody out if He desired to , apparently decided to readily forgive him.....and restore him......

 

[BreadOfLife]

So, you are someone that we can lump together with the mormons...who say that "the Bible is only correct insofar as it is correctly translated."

I am of the opinion that at the very least, the kjv has been translated correctly....

The devil has attempted to create confusion by creating translations that water down the message; and then lumping the kjv in with those translations as being a translation that is also not correct,

And, as I have repeatedly shown - you'd be WRONG about that.

There is NO single English translation of the original lanuages that is completely accusrate - not ONE.
Transliterations are sometimes used when there is no identical translation.

If you knew the FIRST thing about languages - you would understand this. because it's impossible.
As it is, however, you will continue to wallow in ignrornce because you refuse to understand.

If you no longer have everlasting life the moment you lose faith, then it was not everlasting in the first place; but temporal from the getgo.

Those who have a nominal, lukewarm, or shallow faith (or mere mental assent) do not have everlasting life. They are delivered from sin for a season but not from hell.

But the whole point of this discussion is to say that as concerning the doctrine of epignosis, there is a difference between those who have a nominal, shallow, or lukewarm faith and those who have a heart faith that is unto righteousness (Romans 10:10) and enduring to the end (Matthew 10:22, Hebrews 3:6, Hebrews 3:14).

That is absolutely FALSE.

We must continue to cooperate with God's grace - and the Bible is crystal-clear about that, as I have shown you MANY times now (Matt. 7:19-23, Matt. 10:22, Matt. 24:13, Matt. 25:31–46, John 15:1-6, Rom. 11:22, 1 Cor. 4:4, 1 Cor. 9:27, 1 Cor. 10:12, 1 Tim. 4:1, 1 Tim. 4:16, 2 Tim. 2:12, Heb. 3:6, Heb. 3:12-14, Heb 6:4-6, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Pet. 2:20-21, 2 Pet. 3:17, 1 John 2:24, 1 John 5:13, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19).

EVERYWHERE in Scripture, we see the CONDITIONS related to salvation. God's LOVE is unconditinal.
Salvation, however, IS conditional.

As for Epignosis - you can deny it untl the cows come home - and you'll STILL be wrong . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

Disagree.
No one has full knowledge of the Lord God.
Conversion is defined by Jesus....and BY the way, Rational thought comes from the MIND, to be told something, and read that the Scripture SAYS what they have been Told.

Conversion has nothing to DO with the MINDS rational logical thoughts.

Trust Scriptural Truth...
Rom 10:
[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
[10] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

First of all - I said "Relational" - not "Rational". so the main point of your argument goes right OUT the window . . .

Secondly, a full, experiential and relational kowledge similar to a married husband and wife doesn't meant that I know every single thought in her head.
Likewise - Epignosis of Christ simply means that you have a full and relational understanding of the truth.
It doesn't mean that you know every move God is going to make next.

 

[BreadOfLife]

here is the fact
If this true, It contradicts other aspect of the word.
I might as well through my bible out.
Anyone who received the word of truth has received epignosis.

It doers not mean they were saved.

WRONG.
HEARING the truth is NOT the same as fully experiencing it through a relationship with Christ.

THAT is Epignosis.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Nope

That would be called conditional life. Not eternal.

You take it upo with God why God called something eternal that was always meant to be conditional

And if you want to get technical - "eternal" only applies to God.
Everlasting life in what you mean - and it's everlasting, contingent on YOUR cooperation.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

WRONG.
HEARING the truth is NOT the same as fully experiencing it through a relationship with Christ.

THAT is Epignosis.

Wrong

one can experience it with a relationship with other believers,

Once again, it can’t be your interpretation without contradicting the rest of the word.

you want a contradictory Bible feel free, you want a God who can not do what he promised feel free, you want a God who will not keep his word. Again feel free,

you can have that God

 

[BreadOfLife]

We can use yours.
Richard doesn't comment on epignosis, only on "epi".
Greater knowledge, but not faith.
Same . . . knowledge, not faith.
A more thorough knowledge, he says. Not faith.
Knowledge, knowledge, down the line he goes, knowledge, but not faith.
So here you've got one source that without explanation defines knowledge as faith and makes your case for you.
I'd be curious to hear their justification for defining the word that way, considering it's not what it means.
Just the same, as all your other sources must have shown you, gnosis is to know, and epignosis is knowing upon knowing, as it were. Greater, deeper knowledge.
Much love!

And by this dishonest response - it is blindingly clear that you didn't acutally READ the evidence because your answers smack of a lazy student who forgot to do his book report - and watched the MOVIE instead.

Let me know when you're ready to have an intelligent conversation . . .

 

[Eternally Grateful]

And if you want to get technical - "eternal" only applies to God.
Everlasting life in what you mean - and it's everlasting, contingent on YOUR cooperation.

Everlasting is eternal.

I am told in John 3. Once I believe I recieve eternal life

I am told in John 4 all I need to do is ask and he will give rivers of living water flowing to eternal life

I am told in John 6. Eat the food which endures forever, whoever eats will never hunger, never thirst never die, live forever and has (present tense) life eternal

I am told in 1 John I have eternal life, and I can know I have it, because he gave it to me, and because I know it I have the power to continue to believe, because my hope is in him, not myself

you want conditional life feel free, keep working to earn life. However I must warn you, you will fail

 

[Ferris Bueller]

No . . . what we are insisting is that your concept of a believer who is born again, that they might stop believing, and be unborn again. It's a fiction. It's not real.

Don't tell me, tell those who say you are still saved even if you stop believing!

We don't keep ourselves saved by "keeping ourselves believing".

You remain in the Son and the Father and the promise of eternal life if you let the word of the gospel remain in you.

As for you, let what you have heard from the beginning remain in you. If it does, you will also remain in the Son and in the Father. And this is the promise that He Himself made to us: eternal life. 1 John 2:24-25​

It doesn't matter if you argue that the true believer can't help but to let the gospel remain in them, the point is if it does, you will remain in the Son and the Father. You can't still be saved if the gospel does not remain in you. Behold says that's not true.

Jesus keeps us saved.

Well you sure don't keep yourself saved, lol. Through our faith we remain in he who saves us. There is no boast of saving oneself in believing in God for salvation....

Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of works? No, but on that of faith. Romans 3:27​

It's interesting that you write, "believers continue to believe, or else, they're not, by definition, believers." Agree! But would you likewise say, "believers who will not continue to believe are not actually believers?"

I don't like to get involved in the osas arguments. It's a waste of time. I prefer to talk about what matters—making sure you have an enduring faith that produces works of righteousness in perseverance right to the very end, because that's what the Bible says.....

...the seed on good soil stands for those with a noble and good heart, who hear the word, retain it, and by persevering produce a crop. Luke 8:15​

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Here's question for you, if you would like to answer.

Why is it that saved people continue to have faith?

Much love!

Don't miss the point. By definition, saved people are believers. They have faith in God. Behold says it's possible for a saved person to not have faith anymore and still be saved.

 

[marks]

And by this dishonest response - it is blindingly clear that you didn't acutally READ the evidence because your answers smack of a lazy student who forgot to do his book report - and watched the MOVIE instead.

Let me know when you're ready to have an intelligent conversation . . .

I'm sorry, I don't find this to be intelligent converation. Just someone throwing out insults as if that were OK.

I'll leave you to it.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Well you sure don't keep yourself saved, lol.

You remain in the Son and the Father and the promise of eternal life if you let the word of the gospel remain in you.

How do you reconcile these seemingly disparate thoughts?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Don't miss the point. By definition, saved people are believers. They have faith in God. Behold says it's possible for a saved person to not have faith anymore and still be saved.

Seriously, I'm interested in your answer, because, in all honesty, I can't imagine how you will answer and remain consistent with the things you've said.

Why is it that saved people continue to have faith?

But, again, it's up to you.

Much love!

 

[Wrangler]

And by this dishonest response - it is blindingly clear that you didn't acutally READ the evidence because your answers smack of a lazy student who forgot to do his book report - and watched the MOVIE instead.

Let me know when you're ready to have an intelligent conversation . . .

Wow! Shocking lack of humility.