Once Saved Always Saved

[Eternally Grateful]

WRONG agai.
It says, they received "Epignosis".

This word is ONLY used 15 times in the Bible - and it ALWAYS means the same thing:
"Full, experiential and relational knowledge" - and NOT simply an intellectual knowledge.

here is the fact

If this true, It contradicts other aspect of the word.

I might as well through my bible out.

Anyone who received the word of truth has received epignosis.

It doers not mean they were saved.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You have everlasting life as long as you endure in faith.
If that bothers you - take it up with God . . .
(Matt. 7:19-23, Matt. 10:22, Matt. 24:13, Matt. 25:31–46, John 15:1-6, Rom. 11:22, 1 Cor. 4:4, 1 Cor. 9:27, 1 Cor. 10:12, 1 Tim. 4:1, 1 Tim. 4:16, 2 Tim. 2:12, Heb. 3:6, Heb. 3:12-14, Heb 6:4-6, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Pet. 2:20-21, 2 Pet. 3:17, 1 John 2:24, 1 John 5:13, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19)

Nope

That would be called conditional life. Not eternal.

You take it upo with God why God called something eternal that was always meant to be conditional

 

[Ferris Bueller]

In Context...
If you have ever listened to a preacher speak to "a crowd", "a congregation", do you consider...
One Speaker...speaking to every age, every gender, believers, doubters, converted, nonbelievers, etc.
Do you think every word spoken by one person applies to every person listening?

Let's expand the context of the passage. We see that he is in fact talking about actual, real believers sinning by uniting Christ in them to a prostitute....

15Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ himself? Shall I then take the members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never! 16Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, “The two will become one flesh.” b 17But whoever is united with the Lord is one with him in spirit. c

18Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body. 19Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies. 1 Corinthians 6:15-20​

Your interpretation of the passage would mean that just having a prostitute among the believers is the sin of sexual immorality. But, no, we see he is saying that an actual member of Christ (someone who has Christ in them) is sinning when they join themselves to a prostitute.

 

[Charlie24]

I see your back again.

Well mr catholic (or should I call you jewish) . Your wrong

It says they RECIEVED it. It never said they accepted it.

Your the one who refuses to grasp my friend.

LOL, total denial! Reminds me of my fundamental friends, whom I love, but are so wrong!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Saved people continue to be "One with God" and "born again".
Faith was already accepted, or they would not be either of those.

Salvation is now what you complete, so, get off your self righteousness, and start to believe that Christ keeps you saved.
Once you believe this, you will leave your self saving fallen from Grace, condition.

Stay focused here. The Bible says, "we are His house, if we hold firmly to our confidence and the hope of which we boast" Hebrews 3:6. But you say we are His house even if we DON'T hold firmly to our faith. This has nothing to do with faith earning salvation. It shows us that a person is a part of God's house if they have continuing faith.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Saved people continue to be "One with God" and "born again".
Faith was already accepted, or they would not be either of those.

Salvation is now what you complete, so, get off your self righteousness, and start to believe that Christ keeps you saved.
Once you believe this, you will leave your self saving fallen from Grace, condition.

Saved people are believers. Believers continue to believe, or else they're not, by definition, believers, lol. Unbelievers, by definition, do not have faith. Unbelievers do not have any part of God's household. Unbelievers do not inherit the kingdom of God. This is Christianity 101. I can't believe we have people in the church insisting that you don't have to be a believer to be a saved person.

 

[justbyfaith]

Saved people are believers. Believers continue to believe, or else they're not, by definition, believers, lol. Unbelievers, by definition, do not have faith. Unbelievers do not have any part of God's household. Unbelievers do not inherit the kingdom of God. This is Christianity 101. I can't believe we have people in the church insisting that you don't have to be a believer to be a saved person.

Yes, it is pure insanity that some people believe this way.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

What God accepts is faith.
Once.
"As many as BELIEVED on Jesus, God gives to them SALVATION".

See that?
You dont do that. God does that for you, and its know as being BORN AGAIN.
It happens once, and can't be remitted or changed.
Why?
Because once you are born again, you are always born again.
Behavior does not affect birth.

we are His house, if we hold firmly to our confidence and the hope of which we boast. Hebrews 3:6
​

You aren't his house if you don't hold firmly in faith. People in His house hold firmly in faith. That's what it says. Just read it, dude.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

"Justification by Faith, without works".

So, you are again contradicting the Grace of God on a public forum.
You need to get rid of your commentaries and leave your cult that has taught you to deny Grace and substitute it with YOUR OWN EFFORT.

You should listen.

No, you're the one not listening. Read it.....

The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself in love. Galatians 5:6​

The faith that justifies all by itself apart from works, works. Faith that finds it's expression in love (obedience to God) is the faith that justifies all by itself. Faith that does not produce works is not the faith that justifies apart from works.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Is that a yes, the Good News message was meant for the common man and not scholars, etc?

I think you are confusing the 'common man' with 'the ignorant and unstable.' Love God. Love others. Not too hard to grasp even for intellectuals who, like Pharisee's, sift their mustard seed but miss the weightier matters. If you and justbyfaith had the true Epignosis, I doubt you'd post as you do.

My point is that whereas the Gospel message is easily understandable - for those who have been taught correctly - the words of Scripture aren't necessarily easy to understand for the "common man", as Peter points out (2 Pet. 3:16).

Those who are completely discounting terms like "Epignosis" are simply proving Peter's point.

 

[marks]

Saved people are believers. Believers continue to believe, or else they're not, by definition, believers, lol. Unbelievers, by definition, do not have faith. Unbelievers do not have any part of God's household. Unbelievers do not inherit the kingdom of God. This is Christianity 101. I can't believe we have people in the church insisting that you don't have to be a believer to be a saved person.

No . . . what we are insisting is that your concept of a believer who is born again, that they might stop believing, and be unborn again. It's a fiction. It's not real. We don't keep ourselves saved by "keeping ourselves believing".

Jesus keeps us saved. You may want to search, "faith of Christ".

It's interesting that you write, "believers continue to believe, or else, they're not, by definition, believers." Agree! But would you likewise say, "believers who will not continue to believe are not actually believers?"

Much love!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Saved people dont lose faith. God does not give them a reason to.

We lose faith when the person who has gained our trust proves untrustworthy.

If you think we can lose faith. You must doubt Gods faithfulness

You can believe what you want about that. But the point is, saved people have faith. Behold says you do not have to have faith to be a saved person. You only needed to have it in a single moment of conversion. You don't need it from then on to be saved when Jesus comes back. That's what he teaches. Ask him. I showed him the Bible says you are God's household if you are continuing in faith. He says you are God's household if you DON'T continue in faith, too. I know you don't believe that so please explain to him why he's teaching a falsehood.

 

[marks]

As I have shown repeatedly - the very word, "Epignosis" already connotes that the person had FAITH.
This is the FOURTH time I have had to present this scholarly linguistic evidence - so pay attention:

Not so.

Epignosis is a more generic word than that. It's certainly more than just knowing, and connotates a deeper understanding, but there is nothing intrinsic to the word meaning that you've entrusted yourself to God's salvation and been born again.

This is a word about knowledge and understanding, not about belief, faith, reliance, or rebirth.

Much love!

 

[BreadOfLife]

Dude, once again your entire arguement is a waste of time. Your accusations are baseless and you are spending time over-analyzing one word instead of reading the verse. And no, I don't care what they say (that is, what your "experts" say) but rather what the Bible says. If they agree with the Bible, great!

Once again, I have read your definitions and all your mumbo jumbo... Its not needed when you read the passage properly. You get what the original greek meaning of the word just fine without over analyzing the word. What does that mean? It means I can read it and get the proper meaning from it just fine.

So, you can take your over-analyzations, your baseless accusations and your utterly stupid conclusions and do whatever you want with them, but I'm not buying the garbage you are peddling.

Why, I bet you can't even recall what my position on all this is... Not truthfully anyway! In short, I am not going to play your game of, "Let me tell you why the Bible doesn't mean what it says".

And that's my entire point with you.
THEY (the scholars) DO agree with the Bible. It's YOU who doesn't.

You are a living, breathing example of who Peter was talking about:
2 Pet. 3:15-16
And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

yes,

But this is not talking about the ability to lose salvation. It is spoken of a claimed salvation. Which is false

No, I'm not even touching the osas subject. That's a waste of time. James is explaining that empty, dead faith (faith with no works) is not the faith that saves. The faith that saves is the faith that can be seen in it's obedience to love (Galatians 5:6). No obedience to God shows you are not saved. Surely you agree with that.

By this the children of God are distinguished from the children of the devil: Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is anyone who does not love his brother. 1 John 3:10​

 

[marks]

Saved people continue to have faith.

Here's question for you, if you would like to answer.

Why is it that saved people continue to have faith?

Much love!

 

[Charlie24]

we are His house, if we hold firmly to our confidence and the hope of which we boast. Hebrews 3:6
​

You aren't his house if you don't hold firmly in faith. People in His house hold firmly in faith. That's what it says. Just read it, dude.

They refuse to see it!

No . . . what we are insisting is that your concept of a believer who is born again, that they might stop believing, and be unborn again. It's a fiction. It's not real. We don't keep ourselves saved by "keeping ourselves believing".

Jesus keeps us saved. You may want to search, "faith of Christ".

It's interesting that you write, "believers continue to believe, or else, they're not, by definition, believers." Agree! But would you likewise say, "believers who will not continue to believe are not actually believers?"

Much love!

My Lord, what does it take for you to see?

Read this verse carefully and you will see that a righteous person (saved) can lose his salvation.

He does it through going back to the sins he committed before he was saved, thereby proving he no longer believes.

This is NOT a person who backslides, he no longer believes in Christ!

Ezek. 18:24

"But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die."

Now what does it mean "to die in your sins?"

 

[BreadOfLife]

Not so.

Epignosis is a more generic word than that. It's certainly more than just knowing, and connotates a deeper understanding, but there is nothing intrinsic to the word meaning that you've entrusted yourself to God's salvation and been born again.

This is a word about knowledge and understanding, not about belief, faith, reliance, or rebirth.

Much love!

Please provide the SAME types of scholarly evidence for YOUR claim that I provided for mine.
I want to see quotes and excerpts from scholarly linguistic sources like the ones I provided.

THEN, we can have an intelligent conversation - instead of just a barrage of simplistic denials . . .

 

[FHII]

I see your back again.

Well mr catholic (or should I call you jewish) . Your wrong

It says they RECIEVED it. It never said they accepted it.

Your the one who refuses to grasp my friend.

I don't know why that's so hard for people to accept or see. When I originally started talking about this subject (predestination or lack thereof) and Hebrews 10:26 I had a few things that I thought were important to note. First, the sinning wilfully is speaking of one particular sin: wavering faith, which includes forsaking the assembling. In doing that, you trodden under foot the Son of God, count the blood covenent and unholy thing and do spite the spirit of grace.

From there I backed it up with Matthew 7:22-23 and I John 2:19, which explain fully why those in Hebrews 10:26 never had salvation to begin with... Even if they had "epignosis" knowledge.... Speaking of which, you don't need to look up the definition in Strong's or Thayer's to know what "knowledge" is in that verse. The context of the passage tells you what's going on: they walked and lived amongst the other saints, they for a while didn't waver, they assembled (which is a lot more important than most people realize) and they exhorted one another. they basically had a "hands on" knowledge based on being there and experiencing it. Then, for whatever reason, they left. They didn't just hear about it, they lived it and still walked away. But again, as the other two passages I mentioned (and there are more) they were never really part of "them", even from the beginning. (and I got all that from simply reading the Bible... Not looking up definitions and listening to "world renouned" theologians...)

It's really not that difficult at all to understand, so I am glad to read that someone else gets it.

 

[FHII]

And that's my entire point with you.
THEY (the scholars) DO agree with the Bible. It's YOU who doesn't.

You are a living, breathing example of who Peter was talking about:
2 Pet. 3:15-16
And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.

LOL!!!! Yeah, sure. Whatever dude! I noticed you still don't even know what my stance is on this....