Once Saved Always Saved

[BloodBought 1953]

Hagar was , at best, a concubine ...a secondary type of wife....


It makes no difference ....the major sin that affected the entirety of mankind that Abraham committed was not trusting God and His Promise ..... the child had to be conceived by the Free Woman Who was Way beyond the years of fertility....it had to be a miracle birth.....due exclusively because of a Promise Of God....she symbolized Faith ...She symbolized those that are Free....

On the other hand, any child conceived by Hagar was NOT the Child Of Promise....it took no miracle for her to get pregnant .....she was a Slave and was to symbolize all of those that are “ Slaves” to the Law....the Legalists are her “ Children” ..... Free men and women in Christ are The Spiritual Descendants Of Sarah.....
I did a sloppy job of relating this story...read it for yourselves in Galatians ....learn the lesson , which is the uselessness ( and potential serious repercussions ) Of anything that puts Man’s best efforts ( and lack of Faith) against God's Promises....

 

[justbyfaith]

So is Correction and even Rebuking when the Truth Of The Gospel is in Danger ....being “Perverted” by those that ADD to it with things like “Repenting Of All Of your Sins before you Die , lest you be damned” .....Paul’s Verdict on those that would Pervert His Gospel Of Pure Grace was Clear..

You continue to be blind to specific passages that have been shown to you that teach the reality that if a man repents, it will bring him life.

For example, Ezekiel 33:11-20, Luke 13:1-5, 2 Corinthians 12:20-21.

We must repent of sin. (post #1)

We must repent of sin. (post #57 and #58)

The True Gospel Of 1cor 15:1-4 says that if you simply believe that Jesus died for your sins and rose from the dead—- you will be Saved. Feel the need to Add to that ? With ANYTHING? .....Congratulations, for you are now a Gospel Perverted and you have “ Fallen From Grace”......read Galatians .....there is no room for argument....just pray to God that “falling from Grace” does not mean Eternal Damnation....If it DOES mean That, it’s no big surprise—- Jesus DID say the Path to Heaven was a “ narrow” one...

It seems to be that you are purporting the false doctrine that if a man actually repents, he is lost for ever...

This is so far out in left field that I am surprised that you do not see the folly in your doctrine.

To the Newbies out there.....do you Believe that Jesus is “ The Risen Lord?”.....Paul had a test to see if one is Truly Saved or Not.....did you answer “ yes” to the question? According to Romans 10:9,you are Saved.....Forever.

A man can be saved from sin and yet later fall away (Luke 8:12-13) or be cut off (Romans 11:20-22).

Such a person was not saved from hell from eternity's perspective; while for all practical purposes they were saved from hell from time's perspective. But because their repentance didn't last, God saw from eternity that they were not predestinated for heaven...and the only alternative is hell.

With the heart man believes unto righteousness...but with the mouth confession is made unto salvation (Romans 10:10).

So, @Blood Bought 1953 is wrong there; simple believing that Jesus is Lord is not going to cut it...you must also confess Him with your mouth.

...God said, “ there is NO CONDEMNATION for those who are in Christ Jesus.” How do you know that you are “ in Christ Jesus?”

When you walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit (Romans 8:1 (kjv)).

..If you can say Sincerely that “ Jesus is Lord” ( God in the Flesh , Risen from the Grave), according to Paul, you can’t say that unless the Holy Spirit is within you...

You cannot confess that Jesus is your Lord unless the Holy Spirit is in you.

In order to do that, He must actually be your Lord.

Jesus said,

Luk 6:46, And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

If Jesus is not really your Lord, then to say with your mouth "Jesus is Lord" is not a confession. A confession is to agree with God, and if it is not the truth, then God is not saying it; and therefore to mouth the words is not to agree with Him.

Soundly refuted by those that have “ Fallen From Grace?” ....I doubt it...

So soundly refuted that your only recourse in continuing to oppose us is to resort to ad hominem attacks.

I say the truth in Christ, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost, that the secret thoughts that would shame hell, I had plenty of them before I received Christ.

Afterwards, not so much.


Finally, the Truth.....” not so much”..... but you still have them, don’t you? Just as I stated....I:never said “ how often”
The important Point is that even though you may improve over time ( and I know that I have) ....you STILL need a TON of Grace ....just like your ol’ buddy, BB ..

Rarely do I ever have them.

I make this a rule of conduct.

Job 31:1, I made a covenant with mine eyes; why then should I think upon a maid?

As Martin Luther once said, "You can watch the birds flying overhead; just don't let them come and make a nest in your hair".

These days I don't even watch the birds as they fly overhead.

 

[justbyfaith]

So what?......Jesus says if one simply Believes in Him they will NEVER come under Condemnation.....Never means NEVER ...

He was not talking about mere mental assent...and you would know this if you studied the scriptures properly.

Hagar was , at best, a concubine ..

She was Abraham's wife.

Gen 16:3, And Sarai Abram's wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife.

..she was a Slave and was to symbolize all of those that are “ Slaves” to the Law....the Legalists are her “ Children” ...

Rom 6:18, Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
Rom 6:19, I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
Rom 6:20, For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.

1Jo 3:4, Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

 

[justbyfaith]

I have the sin nature that dwells inside me, but by my faith in Christ and relationship with Him, sin will not have dominion over me, meaning as long as I exercise my faith in the Cross of Christ, the sin nature will not have dominion, or control me.

I am saved by the grace of God but I am not sinless. I fail at times, even though I don't want to. But when I do fail, I'm sorry and feel remorse that I have sinned against my God. I don't want to sin, I have no pleasure in it, I long for the day when the mortal puts on the immortal, and I will no longer fail my Christ.

I would encourage you, brother, by letting you know that you do not have to fail.

(New Living Translation):
Rom 8:12, Therefore, dear brothers and sisters, you have no obligation to do what your sinful nature urges you to do.
Rom 8:13, For if you live by its dictates, you will die. But if through the power of the Spirit you put to death the deeds of your sinful nature, you will live.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Such a person was not saved from hell from eternity's perspective; while for all practical purposes they were saved from hell from time's perspective. But because their repentance didn't last, God saw from eternity that they were not predestinated for heaven...and the only alternative is hell.


What the? .....
Lol.....you have gone from being ignorant about Scripture and also being wrong about Scripture to being a manufacturer of Fairy Takes....you’re just making stuff up as you go along..... it’s a bit of a Hoot, I must admit.....got any more? It won’t be long before you start “ teaching” about other Fairy Tales in the Bible....Like Purgatory....Lol.....
Seriously though...NOWHERE In the KJV Bible does it say “ repent Of sins” to be Saved.....if the Bible says “ Repent”— DO IT...... if the Bible says, “ Repent Of Sins”— DO IT......if the Bible says, “ Repent Of your Sins to be Saved”—- DO IT.......
That last one.....if you find that in the KJV.....show it to me.....I’ll give you a Biden $1400 check if you do....happy hunting and good luck!
Btw, while we are on the subject .....the True type of Repentance required for Salvation goes like this——“ TURN to God ( Repentance ) with Faith in Jesus Christ , and I will save you to the Uttermost”......
Many people “ repent” their way to hell .....more on that later....hint: ever heard of a guy named” Judas?”......... man, could that guy Repent!

 

[Taken]

You are being too technical here.

"too technical"... ?

Details do matter.
Details are the little things that give the reader deeper knowledge.
A single letter added to a word changes basic knowledge into a deeper knowledge.

The fact is that all scripture is inspired of the Holy Spirit (2 Timothy 3:16)...and the passage in question tells us that in order for it to be inspired that way, the men who wrote it must needs have been holy...

Absolutely, God Inspired the Prophets whom God gave His Word and
the Prophets SPAKE.
the Scribes WROTE.
the Recorders COPIED to parchment Scrolls.


Who WROTE what the Prophets and SERVANTS of the Lord spake?

2 Sam 23:
[1] Now these be the last words of David. David the son of Jesse said, and the man who was raised up on high, the anointed of the God of Jacob, and the sweet psalmist of Israel, said,
[2] The Spirit of the LORD spake by me, and his word was in my tongue.

2 Sam 8:
[17] And Zadok the son of Ahitub, and Ahimelech the son of Abiathar, were the priests; and Seraiah was the scribe;

2 Sam 8:
[16] And Joab the son of Zeruiah was over the host; and Jehoshaphat the son of Ahilud was recorder;

ORDER, WAY, Details mattered enough to be Given you.

You finding them insignificant, is no reflection on me.

 

[Taken]

Huh?

..."those who"...those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. Romans 8:5-6​

God does nothing to a man's mind in Conversion.

Read the Scripture again..."those who"...
ARE men, "not God".

I have spoke on that point several times.

A Converted man's "JOB", is to Listen to his
"New spirit, in his new heart"...over the thoughts of his "Carnal Mind".

IOW, it's the works of a man to make "his decisions, his speech, his works" based on his "hearts/spirits" thoughts OVER his Carnal minds thoughts.

Some men Do, Some men Do occasionaly, Some men Do Not...Some men do not know that is Scriptural teaching.

A man who knows, practices that knowledge...improves that practice, until it is a habit and his new (spiritual) nature ...

And what is the Point, Goal, Result?
To have a MIND...Like Christ.

And BY whose effort is that "accomplished"?
The Individual man.

Eph 4:
[22] That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
[23] And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

 

[Taken]

Correct. He's talking about those who believe. He is faithful to those who believe. That's why the Bible tells us to keep believing.

Men would do well to be more precise, using words Scripture uses.

BELIEVERS can believe ...the Doubt...Deny
(Remember The Disciples?
Doubting Thomas?
Denying Peter?)

BELIEVERS can Stop Believing.
BELIEVERS can Believe in their MIND, but not their HEART.
BELIEVERS in their HEART...can Confess BELIEF...<-- THEY Become "CONVERTED".

Once "Converted"...Proper Scriptural TERM...
All "works" Accomplished "within" that man ARE "accomplish-ED", ONCE and KEPT "accomplished" FOREVER,
BY the POWER of GOD, who IS CHRIST.

No man can UNDO Gods Works!

 

[Taken]

According to the law of Moses. Concerning the man in the church at Corinth who was sleeping with his step mother.....

You must not have sexual relations with your father’s wife; it would dishonor your father. Leviticus 18:8​

What about it?
Jesus reiterated "honor" toward "parents".
If you think it "honorable" to have A SEXUAL relationship with your Mother...

You bear the "consequences".

Gal 6:
[5] For every man shall bear his own burden.

Does that "change" a Conversion relationship such a man HAS with God?

 

[Taken]

According to the law of Moses. Concerning the man in the church at Corinth who was sleeping with his step mother.....

You must not have sexual relations with your father’s wife; it would dishonor your father. Leviticus 18:8​

Does dishonor between humans, define the relationship between a man and God?

 

[Taken]

Say what?

"And forgive us our debts..." Matthew 6:12​

In Context...
Matt 6:
[12] And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.


Elaborating on WHAT is FORGIVEN...
Debts AND Trespasses...between MEN;
MEN Against MEN.

[14] For (Because) if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
[15] But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Already spoke about that, in Context.

 

[Taken]

Plack?
Oh, 'plaque'......I get it now.

Thank God salvation is not by spelling either. Or else you and me would be waltzing arm in arm right into hell, lol. Thank God for spell check.

Me slf Nvr wus da goodist spler n spel chk not allway rite.

 

[justbyfaith]

Such a person was not saved from hell from eternity's perspective; while for all practical purposes they were saved from hell from time's perspective. But because their repentance didn't last, God saw from eternity that they were not predestinated for heaven...and the only alternative is hell.


What the? .....
Lol.....you have gone from being ignorant about Scripture and also being wrong about Scripture to being a manufacturer of Fairy Takes....you’re just making stuff up as you go along..... it’s a bit of a Hoot, I must admit.....got any more? It won’t be long before you start “ teaching” about other Fairy Tales in the Bible....Like Purgatory....Lol...

What I said there is actually biblical...if you took the time to study your Bible you would have known that it is biblical doctrine and would not have ridiculed it....but because you spend most of your "time in the Bible" listening to false teachers you have never heard of this doctrine that I have just given; which is sound.

Seriously though...NOWHERE In the KJV Bible does it say “ repent Of sins” to be Saved.....if the Bible says “ Repent”— DO IT...... if the Bible says, “ Repent Of Sins”— DO IT......if the Bible says, “ Repent Of your Sins to be Saved”—- DO IT.......
That last one.....if you find that in the KJV.....show it to me.....I’ll give you a Biden $1400 check if you do....happy hunting and good luck!

You won't pay up because you escape on a technicality...that the scripture passage in question does not use the exact words that you are requiring.

But just like the word Trinity is not in the Bible but the concept is there, so the exact words you are looking for may not be found in the Bible while the concept is indeed there.

I believe that what I have posted at the following links meets your challenge adequately, if you go by the spirit and not by the letter...by the concept and not by the specific words that you have required.

We must repent of sin. (post #1)

We must repent of sin. (posts #57 and #58)

Do I think that you will pay up?

You didn't before when you made the same challenge with a bet of $1,000...

So, I don't think that you will pay up now, either.

But the truth of the matter is, you owe me $1,400.

Actually, $2,400, since you owe me $1,000 also, from the last time that you made this challenge and lost.

Perhaps we should call on an unbiased arbiter to judge our case.

I think that if you should pay up for losing the argument, you should pay up.

But I even might decide that you have escaped on a technicality, if I were called upon to judge our case...so that while you have lost the argument, you are not required to pay up.

Nevertheless the fact that you have made money an issue might lead me to make you put your money where your mouth is and pay up, if I were the unbiased arbiter of our case.
.
.
But at least the casual observer can see that your "challenge" has been met with flying colors and that you are actually full of hot air...

So, I rest content in knowing that I have soundly refuted your case and that your claim that I preach a FALSE and PERVERTED gospel has no basis in reality...

For in all reality the gospel that I preach is true and wholesome.

 

[justbyfaith]

"too technical"... ?

Details do matter.
Details are the little things that give the reader deeper knowledge.
A single letter added to a word changes basic knowledge into a deeper knowledge.



Absolutely, God Inspired the Prophets whom God gave His Word and
the Prophets SPAKE.
the Scribes WROTE.
the Recorders COPIED to parchment Scrolls.


Who WROTE what the Prophets and SERVANTS of the Lord spake?

2 Sam 23:
[1] Now these be the last words of David. David the son of Jesse said, and the man who was raised up on high, the anointed of the God of Jacob, and the sweet psalmist of Israel, said,
[2] The Spirit of the LORD spake by me, and his word was in my tongue.

2 Sam 8:
[17] And Zadok the son of Ahitub, and Ahimelech the son of Abiathar, were the priests; and Seraiah was the scribe;

2 Sam 8:
[16] And Joab the son of Zeruiah was over the host; and Jehoshaphat the son of Ahilud was recorder;

ORDER, WAY, Details mattered enough to be Given you.

You finding them insignificant, is no reflection on me.

The point is that is what is inspired of the Holy Spirit must be written by holy men or else it is not inspired of the Holy Spirit.

Does looking at the "deeper truths" make this not the reality?

I don't think so.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Does dishonor between humans, define the relationship between a man and God?

Yes.

No one who continues to sin has seen Him or known Him. 1 John 3:6

The one who does not love remains in death. 1 John 3:14​

 

[Ferris Bueller]

If you think it "honorable" to have A SEXUAL relationship with your Mother...

You bear the "consequences".

Gal 6:
[5] For every man shall bear his own burden.

Does that "change" a Conversion relationship such a man HAS with God?

Maybe. It depends if that sin is coming from unbelief or stupidity and if they repent of it or not.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

BELIEVERS can Stop Believing.
BELIEVERS can Believe in their MIND, but not their HEART.
BELIEVERS in their HEART...can Confess BELIEF...<-- THEY Become "CONVERTED".

Once "Converted"...Proper Scriptural TERM...
All "works" Accomplished "within" that man ARE "accomplish-ED", ONCE and KEPT "accomplished" FOREVER,
BY the POWER of GOD, who IS CHRIST.

No man can UNDO Gods Works!

No unbeliever will inherit the kingdom of God. Period.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

God does nothing to a man's mind in Conversion.

My mindset changed completely when I was born again. Before I was born again righteousness got in the way of my desire for sinning. Now sinning gets in the way of my desire for righteousness.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Jesus said that if you harbored “ lustful thoughts” you are as “ GUILTY” as an Adulterer....

Key word there, 'harbored'. When you retain lustful thoughts that pop into your mind and tempt you, you have moved beyond temptation and are sinning.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Discussion is alright.


So is Correction and even Rebuking when the Truth Of The Gospel is in Danger ....being “Perverted” by those that ADD to it with things like “Repenting Of All Of your Sins before you Die , lest you be damned” .....Paul’s Verdict on those that would Pervert His Gospel Of Pure Grace was Clear....
“Cast them Out” just as Hagar and Ishmael were.....( the Old Testament Biblical stand-ins for the Legalists Of today ) ...

Paul NEVER said to argue, debate, try to persuade or even PRAY for them—— he said to throw them out of the Church.Why? Simply because “ a little Leaven leavens the whole batch” It is not the policy here to eject them, so we most do the-next best thing, which is to use them as “ springboards”to get the Truth out there for the Newbies before they get Ruined by False Gospels.....

The True Gospel Of 1cor 15:1-4 says that if you simply believe that Jesus died for your sins and rose from the dead—- you will be Saved. Feel the need to Add to that ? With ANYTHING? .....Congratulations, for you are now a Gospel Perverted and you have “ Fallen From Grace”......read Galatians .....there is no room for argument....just pray to God that “falling from Grace” does not mean Eternal Damnation....If it DOES mean That, it’s no big surprise—- Jesus DID say the Path to Heaven was a “ narrow” one.....If you say, “ Jesus Saves—- BUT!” .....you might want to consider changing paths.....the “ Path” that says “Nothing But The Blood Of Jesus “ for Salvation.....

The sinner at Corinth had to repent not because works earn or add to salvation, but because his sin was a rejection of Christ.