Once Saved Always Saved

[FHII]

My entire purpose for arguing the definition of Epignosis is to sho that this passage is NOT a defense of OSAS - but proof against this false doctrine.

If you're NOT a proponnt of OSAS based on this passage - then we have no argument here.
However - if you are trying to PROVE OSAS based on this passage - then you are wrong. and "Epignosis" makes ALL the difference in the world here.

Oh really? Well guess what BOL: You can't find one time where I have used this verse to prove OSAS! I commented on this verse because someone tried to use it as proof against predestination (which it is not). I also gave two verses to prove my point. I didn't run to Thayers. I didn't run to google to see if anything supports my doctrine. I used the Bible.

So perhaps next time you better pay attention to what people say before jumping on them.

By the way, I just now got around to looking up Hebrews 10:26 in the Strong's dictionary.... It doesn't really support your theory, does it?

"knowledge of a particular point (directed towards a particular object); perception, discernment, recognition, intuition."

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Then your disobeying James

plain and simple.

ps, am accountabilit group is not a discipleship partnership they are two different things

You're being terribly legalistic about it. I don't think that's James' intent at all. When there is no one to confess your sins to, for whatever the reason, you aren't disobeying James for not doing that.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

You harbor Secret Thoughts That would Shame Hell, itself.....just like the rest of us ....
You NEVER had a Lustful Thought? Get out Of here with that Hog Wash, Fellow Adulterer and Common Sinner...

Whoa, there, Ricochet! Our thoughts are the very first place temptation shows up. Being tempted is not sinning. Go easy on yourself and others!

 

[Taken]

Who is Jesus talking about?

Those who become converted.

 

[justbyfaith]

And your point in post #460 was simply to argue with me - and NOT in a fruitful way.

Stick to the TOPIC of the thread. If you have a different opinion regarding that - THEN post something related.
But if you're simply going to nitpick about a word because you don't know the definition - then open a dictionary BEFORE you post . . .

No, I did not argue with you...

But apparently I made you want to argue with me.

1Jo 3:6, Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

1Jo 2:17, And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

Whosoever doeth the will of God "sinneth not" "for ever."

Then YOU hould tell the Holy Spirit He made a mistake when He inspired James to tell his BORN AGAIN readers to "confess your sins" (James 5:16).

I'm sure He'd appreciate the correction . . .

The reality is that when we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us of our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness...

For the person who has the Holy Spirit will refute every false point of view; because they have been given a mouth and wisdom that none of their adversaries will be able to gainsay nor resist (Luke 21:15, Acts of the Apostles 6:10).


That person would be me.And Behold .And Taken.And His Life.

All of the people that you have mentioned (including yourself) have been soundly refuted by me and a few others (like @Ferris Bueller and @Michiah-Imla).

hat group that Adds to the Gospel Of Pure Grace will be the ones shouting,” Look what WE did, Jesus ! We had the Super Memories and the Luck to Repent Of all of those Suns that your Blood was too weak to cover! Give us what we deserve!!!

Those who continue to live lives of unholiness, Jesus will say to them, Depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

They have not believed that the blood of Jesus is strong enough to sanctify them (Hebrews 13:12, Hebrews 10:29) and cleanse them from all sin (1 John 1:7) but have only believed in it for justification.

And in this, they have not had the blood applied to them.

For, if the blood is applied, will it not perform all of its functions?

Will it not, sanctify and cleanse a man, and not only justify him, when it is applied?

I say to you truly that if the blood has been applied, it will perform all of its functions!

You think the people on this Forum are Stupid? You harbor Secret Thoughts That would Shame Hell, itself.....just like the rest of us ...

Speak for yourself, buddy.

I say the truth in Christ, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost, that the secret thoughts that would shame hell, I had plenty of them before I received Christ.

Afterwards, not so much.

All glory be to God for the work that He has done in me!

You NEVER had a Lustful Thought? Get out Of here with that Hog Wash, Fellow Adulterer and Common Sinner...

I had plenty of lustful thoughts B.C.

Now that I am a new creature in Christ, lustful thoughts are far and few between...

..Put Away Your Utter Foolishness and Self Deception.....go out and get you some Grace—— it’s the ONLY thing that’s gonna get you Saved.....you ain’t no different from me—- you need TONS of it......why can’t you just Admit it ? Is it Pride or Pathetic Teaching? Its one or the other...

I have TONS of grace...and the grace that has been given to me has had the following effects.

Eph 2:1, And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
Eph 2:2, Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
Eph 2:3, Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Tit 3:3, For we ourselves also were sometimes foolish, disobedient, deceived, serving divers lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful, and hating one another.

I reject double predestination,

Double predestination is taught in Jude 1:3-4.

...just like the only “ Righteousness” anybody will ever know is the one Imputed to them...

Righteousness is not only positionally imputed; but it can also be practically imparted (1 John 3:7, Romans 5:19, Matthew 5:6).

...especially not “ Lucky Repentance”...

Clearly, repentance is something that will bring life in holy scripture (Ezekiel 33:11-20)

John 5:24.......”Anyone who hears my word and believes the One who sent me already HAS Eternal life and shall NOT come Under Condemnation”
Ain’t heard anybody make an effective case against that—Ever!
The only point that I would make about John 5:24 is that it only applies to those who have a heart faith that is unto righteousness (Romans 10:10) and enduring to the end (Matthew 10:22, Hebrews 3:6, Hebrews 3:14).


NOT or NEVER coming under Condemnation means just what it says....there are NO Qualifications other than to “ BELIEVE” in the One that He sent......No matter what Conditions you put forward, whether they are true or not, makes no difference.....whatever it “could” or “would” be would Have to be covered.Why? Simply because it says they will NEVER BE CONDEMNED! Look up the word “ never”.....
If one has to stand on his head and whistle “ Dixie” in order to be Saved, God will see that it is DONE....just like if we MUST ENDURE or if we have HEART FAITH—-the Onus is upon His Shoulders....HE is the One that made the Promise ....
Our part of the Deal is to Believe....He will see to it that anything and everything that is Necessary beyond “ that” Point will be completed.....it makes Sense——After all, HE is the One that Promised to “ Finish the Work that HE started”...... as crude as it May sound.....”the monkey is on His back” once we do our part.....Our “ Part” is really tough isn't it ? It’s really “ tough” to accept a Free Gift, isn’t it? ( That last part was what ya call “ irony” , for the few dim bulbs we have out there ).... lol...

Now you are not taking into account every scripture. There are scriptures that teach that if you have a nominal, lukewarm, or shallow faith, you can fall away (Luke 8:13) or be cut off (Romans 11:20-22).

He was married to Sarah and had sex with Hagar “ to help God out”..... that is what one might call Adultery...

It was not the sin of adultery; though if polygamy is a sin, that is what Abraham committed.

... you are a Child Of The Slave Woman, and you pay for it every day with your lack of assurance because of your Legalism.....you simply lack Faith..

I have no lack of assurance, my brother...and neither is there any lack of faith in me.

Abraham had sex with Hagar.....she was not his wife..

She was his wife (Genesis 16:3).

 

[Taken]

2Pe 1:21, For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

You said Hebrews was WRITTEN by men of God.

And you are now quoting "men of God who SPAKE".

Men of God "SPAKE".
Scribes "WROTE".
Recorders "COPIED" the Scribes writings on to "SCROLLS", which in OT was CALLED SCRIPTURE.
For Centuries, Scripture has been "COPIED" into BOOKS, CALLED, "THE HOLY BIBLE."

WHO EXACTLY WROTE HEBREWS is guesswork.

Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, and others in the NT are Called;
The Gospel "ACCORDING TO MATTHEW",
The Gospel "ACCORDING TO MARK", etc.

And a few letter, whereby the author identifies himself as the Speaker or Writer.

Order, Way, Details, make a post lengthy, but reveals the pertinent facts.

 

[justbyfaith]

You said Hebrews was WRITTEN by men of God.

And you are now quoting "men of God who SPAKE".

Men of God "SPAKE".
Scribes "WROTE".
Recorders "COPIED" the Scribes writings on to "SCROLLS", which in OT was CALLED SCRIPTURE.
For Centuries, Scripture has been "COPIED" into BOOKS, CALLED, "THE HOLY BIBLE."

WHO EXACTLY WROTE HEBREWS is guesswork.

Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, and others in the NT are Called;
The Gospel "ACCORDING TO MATTHEW",
The Gospel "ACCORDING TO MARK", etc.

And a few letter, whereby the author identifies himself as the Speaker or Writer.

Order, Way, Details, make a post lengthy, but reveals the pertinent facts.

You are being too technical here.

The fact is that all scripture is inspired of the Holy Spirit (2 Timothy 3:16)...and the passage in question tells us that in order for it to be inspired that way, the men who wrote it must needs have been holy...

 

[Taken]

I heard about a guy who slept with his own Mother( Step Mother , perhaps ) and did not have the gift of his Salvation Taken Away......
Now, as Saved Believers, I’m sure we have all “ stumbled” at times but, wow! Even BB hasn’t gone “ this” far with Sinning ....this terrible story is in the Bible for good reason....as is the story of Wicked David and Wretched Lot and others....they can give us hope about God’s Grace which forever will trump Sin......

OT mans sin was defined according TO "OT LAWS".

The issue is, Men today repeatedly claim, "THEY SIN", according to WHAT?

A LAW? What LAW?

Jesus said BELIEVE IN Him and the One who Sent Him.
Conversion, is heartfully Confessing that ^
Belief.

Every Gift thereafter is a Gift from God...
His forgiveness, His circumcision of the mans heart, His seed, His restoring the mans soul, His quickening of the mans spirit, His SPIRIT indwelling in the man....

What SIN can that man thereafter COMMIT?

You have to LOOK BACK, What SIN did that man COMMIT, before he became saved and born again?

Answer...DISBELIEF in God and the Word of God (Christ Jesus).

WHO did that man commit a SIN Against?
God and the Word of God (Christ Jesus).

Who can that man SIN against after Conversion? NO ONE.

Certainly NOT the Lord God.
How come?
Because Gods Power is in the man, KEEPING the man sealed unto God.

Can that man SIN against other men?
According to what? OT LAW? No.
According to NOT BELIEVING "IN" other men?
No.

Lying, cheating, stealing, from another man?

That is called Trespassing. Any harm, loss, injury, threat, one man causes another IS one man Trespassing Against another.

And? Scripture teaches to what?
Ask the one you tresspass AGAINST for forgiveness, and repay the harm you have caused.

Scripture never teaches Converted men to Run to God, claim you SINNED against another man, and want God to forgive you...
How does THAT ^ MAKE ANYTHING RIGHT for the man that was Trespassed Against?

Converted man settled their having had disbelief with the Lord God.

But human men continue to NOT be in agreement. Lying, cheating, sneaking, half truths, stealing....Does occur amongst men.

And the consequences thereof ?
What mans laws dictate.

And what does Scripture say about that?
(Whine to the Government and beg them to steal from a man who works and give it to one who doesn't?)

Whoops, that's a man with an emblazoned "D" he proudly touts.

Scriptures says:

Gal 6:
[5] For every man shall bear his own burden.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Maybe you've noticed that the osas comes down to whether or not a true believer can stop believing or not.

Men speak...believer, true believer, Christian, Born Again Christian, convoluted, unclear.

Jesus gave us ONE WORD;
CONVERSION;
that reveals a man has:
Confessed heartful belief in God and Christ Jesus
Offered his body, crucified with Christ
Been forgiven of Sin of Disbelief in Lord God.
Been forgiven of Trespasses against men.
Had his soul restored (saved)
Received a new heart (circumcision)
Received Gods Seed
Received a new born again spirit
Received the Indwelling Holy Spirit
Is cleansed in Jesus' blood.
Is sancitified (set apart)
Is justified (will be raised in glory)
Is covered (HS Light covers his Sin, that God can neither See the mans forgiven Sin, or remember the mans forgiven Sin.
Uses Jesus holy risen body, to live spiritually.

And Somehow (because WHAT, a man "changes his mind"...that all becomes UNDONE?
But yet none of those things are mention in Scripture of EVER Becoming undone?

If you notice... NOT ONE THING of a mans CONVERSION, even mentions the mans MIND.

God does not seek what a mans MIND believes.
A relationship established between God and a man, is always about the mans HEARTS THOUGHTS....not a mans MIND.

Do you KNOW WHY?
Rom 8;
[7] Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Eternally Grateful]

No - you only trust an English-speaking God.
The inspired NT was written in Greek . . .

Nope

I trust the god that speaks Greek Hebrew and Aramaic.

you failed to,prove your point, but almost every time we speak you prove my point of your lack of faith in god

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It might help if you explain yourself! But don't go to slandering you, I think you have done plenty of that on your own!

If you can't explain yourself and want me to read your mind, then yes, good say sir!

Smh, are you serious?

5 times I had to tell you to stop calling me calvinist, 5 times I had to correct your error of my thinking, and then after all this and me saying am done if you can’t stop slandering me. You say I called you a false teacher or something, hence slandering me again

dude get over yourself stop going around trying to tell people what they say and what they believe,

if you disagree, disagree, don’t tell people what they think, because as you prove over and over you don’t have a clue what they think,

 

[Ferris Bueller]

If you notice... NOT ONE THING of a mans CONVERSION, even mentions the mans MIND.

Huh?

...those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. Romans 8:5-6​

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I guess I don't know what your point is. I must have lost the flow of our discussion.

That we are rewarded when we serve others. Not when we stop sin,

that’s why the law has been set aside. Obedience is you looking at self, we seek the things of the spirit (serving others) and in doing so, by Practice do not fulfill the list of the flesh (sin)

sadly some babes think it is just stoping sin, so as a change creature they stop many sins, yet they are not out serving others. We call them couch potato christians,

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You're being terribly legalistic about it. I don't think that's James' intent at all. When there is no one to confess your sins to, for whatever the reason, you aren't disobeying James for not doing that.

If there is no one to confess your sins to, then are you forsaking the assembling of yourselves?

James gave us a command to help us, yes you do not have to obey, but it will be to your benefit to obey, I wish I had that as a teenage, I probably would have not done so many of the things I did.

 

[Charlie24]

Smh, are you serious?

5 times I had to tell you to stop calling me calvinist, 5 times I had to correct your error of my thinking, and then after all this and me saying am done if you can’t stop slandering me. You say I called you a false teacher or something, hence slandering me again

dude get over yourself stop going around trying to tell people what they say and what they believe,

if you disagree, disagree, don’t tell people what they think, because as you prove over and over you don’t have a clue what they think,

Well then, answer this, do you believe a person can refuse to believe in Christ after he is saved?

If you say no, then you have taken the belief of Calvinism, irresistible grace!

If you say yes, then do you think that the faith he once had that saved him, which he no longer has, will continue to save him?

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Those who become converted.

Correct. He's talking about those who believe. He is faithful to those who believe. That's why the Bible tells us to keep believing.

John 10:
[28] And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
[29] My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Glory to God who IS FAITHFUL, regardless of mens beliefs and opinions.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

If there is no one to confess your sins to, then are you forsaking the assembling of yourselves?

Oh, good. Another example of you're not sinning if you have no opportunity to do what God wants you to do. See, the church has to stop making legalisms out of things like this. You're not in disobedience if there is no one trustworthy or spiritual to bear your soul to in confession, or no church you should or can attend.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

Well..... I did exactly what I did not WANT to do.....I quoted every Line except the one that I wanted to quote.....back to the drawing board.....lol....did I mention that I was a computer Dotard? I meant it.......




Rev 20:
[12] And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

All men shall stand before Judgement.
The EVIDENCE "FOR AND AGAINST" every man, IS according TO, the "INFORMATION"...
IN or NOT IN "GODS....BOOK(S).

Gods BOOK of LIFE- records the name of EVERY man ever Naturally Born.
* A man who REJECTS GOD, has his NAME "BLOTTED OUT".
No Name, No man for God to CLAIM.

The LAMBS BOOK OF LIFE- records the name of EVERY man who Accepted Christ Jesus' Offering and RECEIVED the Lords GIFT of SALVATION.
This man NAME- NOT BLOTTED OUT of Gods Book of LIFE.
This man- Heard of Jesus, ACCEPTED His OFFER of Salvation, and that man's NAME "ENTERED" /written in the Lambs Book of Life.
A mans NAME IN THE Lambs Book of Life can NEVER BE BLOTTED OUT.
(Once Saved, Saved FOREVER).

Gods BOOK of TREASURES.
THESE are Records of Every mans WORKS.
ALL WORKS a man has ever done in his entire life (saved or unsaved).
These "WORKS" are JUDGED.
ALL works that DID NOT GLORIFY GOD, are BURNED.

No unsaved man CAN ACCOMPLISH works to glorify God.

Saved men Do all kinds of words that do Not glorify God.

Only a Saved man CAN do works to Glorify God.

There SHALL be ... BILLIONS of works, by saved and unsaved men...BURNED.

The Works of a Saved man, THAT GLORIFIED God, shall be works rewarded...BY GOD...
(IF a man did NOT reward the man).
Meaning if a man did works to glorify God, and the man himself be given and take credit ... receive a ceremony, plack, trophy, ribbon blah, blah.... for his works....THAT IS his Reward, and no other reward for THAT works will be given that man, from God.)[/QUOTE]

Discussion

 

[Ferris Bueller]

James gave us a command to help us, yes you do not have to obey, but it will be to your benefit to obey, I wish I had that as a teenage, I probably would have not done so many of the things I did.

Yeah, I agree it can be a good thing. But with the state of the church at this time I just don't do it.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

Well..... I did exactly what I did not WANT to do.....I quoted every Line except the one that I wanted to quote.....back to the drawing board.....lol....did I mention that I was a computer Dotard? I meant it.......

If salvation was dependent on being able to quote a post you wouldn't have a prayer, lol!