Once Saved Always Saved

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Status
Not open for further replies.

Ferris Bueller

Well-Known Member
Sep 9, 2020
9,979
4,552
113
Middle South
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
If you've done this, then God has accepted your faith, ONCE, and that is proven by being born again.
Being born again, is not kept by holding onto faith.
Then why does John say if we let the gospel message remain in us we will remain in the Son and the Father and the promise of eternal life?

...let what you have heard from the beginning remain in you. If it does, you will also remain in the Son and in the Father. And this is the promise that He Himself made to us: eternal life. 1 John 2:24-25
Are you suggesting that we will remain in the Son and the Father and the promise of eternal life even if we don't keep believing the gospel message? If so, doesn't that make John's admonition kind of meaningless if not misleading?
 

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
21,655
3,591
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Yes, we should deeply examine what words mean. Nevertheless, KJV uses "faults" instead of "sins". But I submit there is a difference between an unintentional fault, i.e., sin, and an intentional one.

Secondly, you left out the other point, which disproves OSAS.

James 5
[19] Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
[20] Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
We agree on OSAS.
I am not a proponent of this false Calvinist coctrine.

As for James 5:16 - the original Greek says "ham-ar-tee'-ah", which is the same word used throughout the NT for "sin".
I don't kow why the KJV chose to change this to "faults", unless there was an OSAS agenda there . . .
 

FHII

Well-Known Member
Apr 9, 2011
4,833
2,500
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Actually - you're wrong.
IF the Bible had been written in English - you might have a point. However, it was written in Koine Greek, so you're WRONG.

There is NO single-word English transliteration for "Epignosis" - so "knowledge" is used instead, when translated.
Epignosis means, "a full, experiential and relational knowledge".
Oida
or Gnosis simply connote an intellectual assent.

Sorry - but you brought a pea-shooter to a gunfight . . .
You are still arguing about a single word and not looking at the entire set of verses. Again:

Hebrews 10:23-27 KJV
Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;) and let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is ; but exhorting one another : and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

THAT is my defense and PROOF the Bible is right! And there you sit trying to argue about what "knowledge" means.

Sorry, but you brought a gun to a spiritual fight, and the weapons of my warfare are not carnal!
 

BreadOfLife

Well-Known Member
Jan 2, 2017
21,655
3,591
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
You are still arguing about a single word and not looking at the entire set of verses. Again:

Hebrews 10:23-27 KJV
Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;) and let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is ; but exhorting one another : and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

THAT is my defense and PROOF the Bible is right! And there you sit trying to argue about what "knowledge" means.

Sorry, but you brought a gun to a spiritual fight, and the weapons of my warfare are not carnal!
My entire purpose for arguing the definition of Epignosis is to sho that this passage is NOT a defense of OSAS - but proof against this false doctrine.

If you're NOT a proponnt of OSAS based on this passage - then we have no argument here.
However - if you are trying to PROVE OSAS based on this passage - then you are wrong. and "Epignosis" makes ALL the difference in the world here.
 

Eternally Grateful

Well-Known Member
Feb 27, 2020
18,518
9,892
113
59
Columbus, ohio
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
We agree on OSAS.
I am not a proponent of this false Calvinist coctrine.

As for James 5:16 - the original Greek says "ham-ar-tee'-ah", which is the same word used throughout the NT for "sin".
I don't kow why the KJV chose to change this to "faults", unless there was an OSAS agenda there . . .
Then you agree on works based self righteous gospel.

god will not accept your works of righteousness as payment, if you try to give them to him, he will tell you to depart for he never knew you
 
  • Like
Reactions: BloodBought 1953

Eternally Grateful

Well-Known Member
Feb 27, 2020
18,518
9,892
113
59
Columbus, ohio
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
My entire purpose for arguing the definition of Epignosis is to sho that this passage is NOT a defense of OSAS - but proof against this false doctrine.

If you're NOT a proponnt of OSAS based on this passage - then we have no argument here.
However - if you are trying to PROVE OSAS based on this passage - then you are wrong. and "Epignosis" makes ALL the difference in the world here.
Osas is proved by taking the word as a whole, we do not need one small passage to prove our point,
 

07-07-07

Well-Known Member
Nov 18, 2018
1,083
670
113
Rust Belt
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Then you agree on works based self righteous gospel.

god will not accept your works of righteousness as payment, if you try to give them to him, he will tell you to depart for he never knew you

Obedience is work, but not the works of man nor the works of the law as you suppose. It's God's grace that gives one a new heart and a new spirit, one that loves righteousness and abhors sin.

Ephesians 2
[8] For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[9] Not of works, lest any man should boast.
[10] For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
 

JunChosen

Well-Known Member
Apr 7, 2020
2,006
479
83
Los Angeles
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
and WHY was the Holy Ghost not yet GIVEN? answer, because he had not yet, A. GLORIFIED, and B. LEAVE, to be in that GLORIFIED STATE, so that he, my, Spirit, can comfort us...

True and false. You are reading John 7:38-39 through the eyes of a natural man not as spiritual (I Cor. 2:14), and through the eyes of someone who believes in a "diversified-oneness shared" doctrine.

You think you have truth and love to challenge others, so now I challenge you to correctly exegete the above verses the way God had intended. I will truly be surprise if you can expound said verses without your biases.

To God Be The Glory
 

Ferris Bueller

Well-Known Member
Sep 9, 2020
9,979
4,552
113
Middle South
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
However - if you are trying to PROVE OSAS based on this passage - then you are wrong. and "Epignosis" makes ALL the difference in the world here.
I don't think Protestants try to prove osas by Hebrews 10:26-31. I think the argument is it doesn't say osas is not true. I think it wise to leave the osas argument out of it and just do what it says for corns sake, lol, which is keep believing (because he who promised is faithful), encouraging one another and spurring one another on to love and good deeds in our meetings and stop purposely sinning. Quite simple. Osas doesn't change that counsel one iota.
 

Eternally Grateful

Well-Known Member
Feb 27, 2020
18,518
9,892
113
59
Columbus, ohio
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I agree, the KJV is wrong the word is hamatos, which means to “miss the mark” or sin,

we need to confess our sins to each other and God, keeping your sin hidden is not, going to,help you be healed, we need to be open and honest. James is right
 

Eternally Grateful

Well-Known Member
Feb 27, 2020
18,518
9,892
113
59
Columbus, ohio
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Obedience is work, but not the works of man nor the works of the law as you suppose. It's God's grace that gives one a new heart and a new spirit, one that loves righteousness and abhors sin.

Ephesians 2
[8] For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[9] Not of works, lest any man should boast.
[10] For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but by his mercy he saved us

obedince as a means of salvation is rejecting Gods mercy and replacing it with your good deeds
 
  • Like
Reactions: BloodBought 1953

Charlie24

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2021
2,283
1,284
113
69
Monroe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
In regards to Hebrews 10:26, to "sin willfully" in the Greek carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual, which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately. This is continuous action, a matter of practice. Now we don't walk along our daily life and "accidentally" fall into a pit called sin. We exercise our will but, the use of the participle clearly shows a ongoing, willful, habitual action. The unrighteous practice sin (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21); not the righteous, who are born of God. (1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9) *Hermeneutics.

If the word 'sanctified' in Hebrews 10:29 is used to describe saved people who lost their salvation as eternal IN-securists teach, then we have a contradiction because the writer of Hebrews in verse 10 said "sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all" (Hebrews 10:10) and in verse 14, we read, "perfected for all time those who are sanctified." (Hebrews 10:14) So in Hebrews 10:10, we clearly read ..WE have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. In Hebrews 10:14, we read - For by one offering He has perfected for all time THOSE who are sanctified. To go from sanctified back to un-sanctified would be in contradiction here.

*NOWHERE in the context does it specifically say the person who "trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant" was "saved" and/or "lost their salvation." The reference to "the blood of the covenant that sanctified him" in verse 29 "on the surface" appears to be referring to a Christian, but this overlooks the fact that the word translated "sanctified" (which is the verb form of the adjective "holy") which means "set apart," and doesn't necessarily refer to salvation.

Strong's Concordance
hagiazó: to make holy, consecrate, sanctify
Original Word: ἁγιάζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: hagiazó
Phonetic Spelling: (hag-ee-ad'-zo)
Definition: to make holy, consecrate, sanctify
Usage: I make holy, treat as holy, set apart as holy, sanctify, hallow, purify.

In 1 Corinthians 7:14, Paul uses it to specifically refer to non-Christians who are "sanctified" or "set apart" by their believing spouse (and by this Paul does not mean that they are saved). A non-Christian can be "set apart" from other non-Christians without experiencing salvation as Paul explained. So the word "sanctified" means to be "set apart." If the word "sanctified" simply meant "saved" in every case, then you would have to say that the seventh day was saved (Genesis 2:3), the tabernacle was saved (Exodus 29:43), Moses saved the people after coming down off the mountain (Exodus 19:14), the priests and the Levites saved themselves (1 Chronicles 15:14), the Father saved the Son (John 10:36), the Son saved Himself (John 17:19) and many other things that do not line up with scripture.

In verse 39, the writer of Hebrews sets up the CONTRAST that makes it clear to me that he was referring to make believers/nominal Christians, not saved people: But WE are not of those who draw back to perdition, but OF THOSE who believe to the saving of the soul. Those who draw back to perdition do not believe to the saving of the soul and those who believe to the saving of the soul do not draw back to perdition.

So after considering the CONTEXT, it seems most likely that "he was sanctified" should be understood in the sense of someone who had been "set apart" or identified as a professing believer among Hebrew Christians, but later renounces his identification with these other Hebrew believers, by rejecting the "knowledge of the truth" that he had received, and trampling under foot the work and the person of Christ himself. This gives evidence that his identification with the Hebrew Christian community of believers was only superficial and that he was not a genuine believer.

Oh, I see! You are saying a person can choose Christ and be saved but he can't reject Christ, for whatever reason, no longer having faith in Christ, but he is still saved, or was not a believer in the first place.

Nope, can't go along with that! It is plain what the scripture is saying! But as I've said before, those who can't and won't believe this will deny it to the end!

Just as Ezekiel witnessed the Spirit leave the temple when God was no longer wanted or believed in, so does the Spirit leave when Jesus is no longer believed in! He has no choice, He doesn't want to but He is being rejected and can no longer abide in unbelief.
 

BloodBought 1953

Well-Known Member
Jun 3, 2020
5,032
1,821
113
72
Portsmouth Ohio
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
For the person who has the Holy Spirit will refute every false point of view; because they have been given a mouth and wisdom that none of their adversaries will be able to gainsay nor resist (Luke 21:15, Acts of the Apostles 6:10).


That person would be me.And Behold .And Taken.And His Life.And anybody else that Teaches that Jesus Saves.Period.No Perverted Gospels That Teach Additions like , “ Why SURE Jesus Saves! ( BUT once ya know “ that”.....ya gotta Repent Of all your Sins before you die......you must understand that even though the Blood is “ Essential” for Salvation —- it just ain’t “ Adequate” for Salvation by itself. Step aside Jesus, you tried to do your part and it did not work, let me now “ Help You Out” )
That group that Adds to the Gospel Of Pure Grace will be the ones shouting,” Look what WE did, Jesus ! We had the Super Memories and the Luck to Repent Of all of those Suns that your Blood was too weak to cover! Give us what we deserve!!!
And God WILL give them what they deserve—- Hell.
“ Depart From me—- I NEVER knew you”
Have you always been a little bit curious as to who would hear those damning words? You just discovered it.They are they” Accursed” , plainly identified in Gal 1:8—- Those That TEACH False, Perverted Gospels .They can vary, but they ALL start out the same—- “ Jesus Saves—BUT!”.....
Sorry, Charlie, But The Song you sang like the hypocrite that you are had it right all along....it really is , “ Nothing But The Blood Of Jesus”.... I certainly do not know everything , but I am Eternally Grateful That I do not find myself on the Wrong Side Of “ THAT” debate......
 

Ferris Bueller

Well-Known Member
Sep 9, 2020
9,979
4,552
113
Middle South
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
we need to confess our sins to each other and God, keeping your sin hidden is not, going to,help you be healed, we need to be open and honest. James is right
When I sin against someone I do that. But, really, my personal sins are my business and God's alone. Unless I want someone to pray with me to God for grace to overcome. But otherwise it's nobody's business what I'm struggling with. And, no, I do not have a pornography addiction, lol.
 

Charlie24

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2021
2,283
1,284
113
69
Monroe
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
For the person who has the Holy Spirit will refute every false point of view; because they have been given a mouth and wisdom that none of their adversaries will be able to gainsay nor resist (Luke 21:15, Acts of the Apostles 6:10).


That person would be me.And Behold .And Taken.And His Life.And anybody else that Teaches that Jesus Saves.Period.No Perverted Gospels That Teach Additions like , “ Why SURE Jesus Saves! ( BUT once ya know “ that”.....ya gotta Repent Of all your Sins before you die......you must understand that even though the Blood is “ Essential” for Salvation —- it just ain’t “ Adequate” for Salvation by itself. Step aside Jesus, you tried to do your part and it did not work, let me now “ Help You Out” )
That group that Adds to the Gospel Of Pure Grace will be the ones shouting,” Look what WE did, Jesus ! We had the Super Memories and the Luck to Repent Of all of those Suns that your Blood was too weak to cover! Give us what we deserve!!!
And God WILL give them what they deserve—- Hell.
“ Depart From me—- I NEVER knew you”
Have you always been a little bit curious as to who would hear those damning words? You just discovered it.They are they” Accursed” , plainly identified in Gal 1:8—- Those That TEACH False, Perverted Gospels .They can vary, but they ALL start out the same—- “ Jesus Saves—BUT!”.....
Sorry, Charlie, But The Song you sang like the hypocrite that you are had it right all along....it really is , “ Nothing But The Blood Of Jesus”.... I certainly do not know everything , but I am Eternally Grateful That I do not find myself on the Wrong Side Of “ THAT” debate......

LOL, so I'm a hypocrite for stating the truth of scripture! OK, I won't take it personal, I know you don't mean it that way!

We just disagree my friend, and that ain't nothing new!
 

Ferris Bueller

Well-Known Member
Sep 9, 2020
9,979
4,552
113
Middle South
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Thank you for the explanation... I am secure in my beliefs... but I have to admit this is not a good topic for me to dwell in because it angers me... LOL... I have had many discussions regarding the possibility of losing one's salvation..... and they have only served to bring forth condemnation.. guilt and shame upon me. I have family members who are of the belief that one can lose their salvation... they are not pleasant people to be around. LOL
Just focus on what the Bible does make clear.....keep believing.
 

Eternally Grateful

Well-Known Member
Feb 27, 2020
18,518
9,892
113
59
Columbus, ohio
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
When I sin against someone I do that. But, really, my personal sins are my business and God's alone. Unless I want someone to pray with me to God for grace to overcome. But otherwise it's nobody's business what I'm struggling with. And, no, I do not have a pornography addiction, lol.
Well then I feel sorry for you. You need to humble yourself if you want true healing
 
Status
Not open for further replies.