No authority!

[BreadOfLife]

Christ is present whenever two or more people gather in his name, especially in the context of forgiveness. Jesus told us about how this works. Remember, he's saying this in the context of forgiveness....

Again, I tell you truly that if two of you on the earth agree about anything you ask for, it will be done for you by My Father in heaven. For where two or three gather together in My name, there am I with them.” Matthew 18:19-20
​

Now compare that to 2 Corinthians 2:10.....

If you forgive anyone, I also forgive him. And if I have forgiven anything, I have forgiven it in the presence of Christ for your sake...
​

2 Corinthians 2:10 is not teaching us about some kind of special order of Catholic priests that take on the persona of Christ. It's an example of Matthew 18:19-20 and how Christ shows up to establish a matter in heaven whenever two or more come into agreement and establish it on earth, especially in the matter of forgiveness. Any two believers can do this. Don't twist it to make it so God has this special order of human priests that do what only they can do on earth. Jesus sets us straight about that.

Sooooo, WHY do you keep on ignoring the verses that precede this??
Matt. 18:17-18 is talking Church Authority - and that disobedience to the Church means excommunication. Paul also taught about this (1 Cor. 5:9-13, 1 Tim. 1:20).

Verses 19-20 reference what Jesus was saying in verse 16: "If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, so that 'every fact may be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses."

Here is the entire passage - in CONTEXT . . .
Matt. 18:15-18
"If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have won over your brother. If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, so that 'every fact may be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses.'
If he refuses to listen to them, TELL THE CHURCH. If he refuses to listen even to the CHURCH, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector.
Amen, I say to you, WHATEVER YOU BIND on earth shall be bound in heaven, and WHATEVER YOU LOOSE on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Learn to prop[ely divide the Word of God instead of cherry-picking it . . .

 

[Ferris Bueller]

How is it that the apostles are the light of the world if not priests of Jesus Christ?

They are not priests in that no one has to go through anyone or anything except Christ and him crucified to get to the Father. Christ is now the only Priest you have to go through to get to the Father.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

WHY do you keep on ignoring the verses that precede this??

I'm not ignoring them. I'm taking the whole passage about forgiveness into consideration. There's nothing here about a special Catholic priesthood that you have to go through to get forgiveness....

15“If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. 16But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ 17If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

18“Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.

19“Again, truly I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything they ask for, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. 20For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.”

The Parable of the Unmerciful Servant

21Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, “Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother or sister who sins against me? Up to seven times?”

22Jesus answered, “I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.

23“Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. 24As he began the settlement, a man who owed him ten thousand bags of gold was brought to him. 25Since he was not able to pay, the master ordered that he and his wife and his children and all that he had be sold to repay the debt.

26“At this the servant fell on his knees before him. ‘Be patient with me,’ he begged, ‘and I will pay back everything.’ 27The servant’s master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go.

28“But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred silver coins. i He grabbed him and began to choke him. ‘Pay back what you owe me!’ he demanded.

29“His fellow servant fell to his knees and begged him, ‘Be patient with me, and I will pay it back.’

30“But he refused. Instead, he went off and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay the debt. 31When the other servants saw what had happened, they were outraged and went and told their master everything that had happened.

32“Then the master called the servant in. ‘You wicked servant,’ he said, ‘I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. 33Shouldn’t you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?’ 34In anger his master handed him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.

35“This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother or sister from your heart.”

Matthew 18:15-35
​

All believers have the power of binding and loosing.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

what? The royal priesthood is the only one in the NT

Heb 7

what makes Jesus high priest
Or the high priest of Israel for that matter
Only they are over an order of low priests of the same order!

Wrong! YOu are using mans philosophy to seek to form a biblical doctrine.

the order of Melchizidech is always in the bible as singular! And order is "taxis" which means rank!

And you can have a high priest without lesser priests. The high priest was the one who offered the high sacrifice and the only one to enter the holy of holies!

17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

This was a priest hood that had only one priest and now has only one priest!

We are the nation of priests offering up the one sacrifice that was offered 2,000 years ago and not a perpetual sacrifice repeated every time an RCC pruest elevates the wafer.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

You don't actuallr READ the posts - do you?
I already adreedd these verses - and in the original GREEK.

Hre they are again . . .
Paul makes the following statement in defense of his priestly function:
Rom 15:14-16
I myself am satisfied about you, my brothers, that you yourselves are full of goodness, filled with all knowledge and able to instruct one another. But on some points I have written to you very boldly by way of reminder, because of the grace given me by God to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles in the PRIESTLY SERVICE of the gospel of God, so that the offering of the Gentiles may be acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.

Here, the verb form of the SAME Greek word for "Priest" (heirus) that we find everywhere else in the NT is used.
Your KJV renders this word as "ministering" because the translators of the KJV had an anti-Catholic/anti-Priest agenda - even though the Greek word is clear.

As for the other verses . . .
2 Cor. 5:18-20:
“And all this is from God, who has reconciled us to himself through Christ and given US the ministry of reconciliation, namely, God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting their trespasses against them and entrusting to US the message of reconciliation. So WE are ambassadors for Christ, as if God were appealing through US. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.”

In 2 Cor. 2:10, he states, “Whomever you forgive anything, so do I. For indeed what I have forgiven, if I have forgiven anything, has been for you in the presence (person) of Christ”

Paul's point here is about Forgiveness through the Ministry of Reconciliation which was entrusted to the clergy ("US", "WE").
He diffderentiates between the clergy and the laity ("US", "WE", "YOU").

Finally - James says to call for the ELDERS/PRESBYTERS - and NOT the laity, to pray over the sick for their healing AND the forgiveness of their sins.

James 5:14-15
Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord.
And the prayer of faith will save the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.

ALL of these verses describe PRIESTLY functions.

Well we are all a nation of priests. But as back then in both Jewish and pagan cultures, people were very used to a priesthood, it was a very common word for a minister.

Jewish priest functioned for service at teh temple, same with pagan priests.

The rite of holy orders did not develop until the thirds century. he church did not even call the local ministers priests until the mid to late 2nd century. And this is probably due to the infusion of greek philosophy in the church throughout the empire!

 

[theefaith]

They are not priests in that no one has to go through anyone or anything except Christ and him crucified to get to the Father. Christ is now the only Priest you have to go through to get to the Father.

the whole point is being in the church and a member of Christ


1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put

 

[BreadOfLife]

Well we are all a nation of priests. But as back then in both Jewish and pagan cultures, people were very used to a priesthood, it was a very common word for a minister.

Jewish priest functioned for service at teh temple, same with pagan priests.

The rite of holy orders did not develop until the thirds century. he church did not even call the local ministers priests until the mid to late 2nd century. And this is probably due to the infusion of greek philosophy in the church throughout the empire!

The point I'm making is that there is an obvious and overt clergy/laity distionction in the NT. To deny this is to deny Scripture.
And yes - we are ALL a nation of priests. But the very definition of a priest is a mediator - one who ooffers up sacrifice.

When Jesus is called our ONE Mediator in 1 Tim. 2:5 - this simply means that only HIS sacrifice can brin peace between us and the Father. HOWEVER, being the a Royal Priesthood that we are - we SHARE in His sacrifice (Col. 1:24). We intercede on behaf of one another (James 5:16, 1 John 5:16).

In a special way, the Ministerial priests have GOD-given authority to forgive or retain sins in Christ (John 20:21-23, James 5:14-15).
This authority was NOT given to the crowds - but ONLY to Jesus's inner circle.

In the Old Testament, there were three levels of Priests:
- The High Priest
- The Levitical/Ministerial Priesthood
- The rest of the people were a general priesthood of believers.

In the New Testament, there are also three levels of Priests:
- Jesus, our High Priest (1 Tim. 2:5, Heb. 7:22-25)
- The Ministerial Priests (James 5:14-15)
- The general priesthood of all Christians (1 Peter 2:5-9).

Just as with all New Testament fulfillments, the fulfillment is always more glorious than the Old Testament type.
In Rom 15:15-16, Paul uses the word “Hierurgeo”, which is the verb form of the Greek “Hierus” (priests) – the SAME word used for “priest” throughout the NT.

Rom 15:15-16:
But on some points I have written to you very boldly by way of reminder, because of the grace given me by God to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles in the PRIESTLY service of the gospel of God, so that the offering of the Gentiles may be acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.

Your KJV translates this word as “Minister” because of an obvious anti-Priest Protestant agenda.

 

[Illuminator]

Sooooo, WHY do you keep on ignoring the verses that precede this??
Matt. 18:17-18 is talking Church Authority - and that disobedience to the Church means excommunication. Paul also taught about this (1 Cor. 5:9-13, 1 Tim. 1:20).

Verses 19-20 reference what Jesus was saying in verse 16: "If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, so that 'every fact may be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses."

Here is the entire passage - in CONTEXT . . .
Matt. 18:15-18
"If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have won over your brother. If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, so that 'every fact may be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses.'
If he refuses to listen to them, TELL THE CHURCH. If he refuses to listen even to the CHURCH, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector.
Amen, I say to you, WHATEVER YOU BIND on earth shall be bound in heaven, and WHATEVER YOU LOOSE on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Learn to prop[ely divide the Word of God instead of cherry-picking it . . .

In John 13 we find evidence that real ontological transformation is in view. But transformation into what? Into priests, as in John 13 we also find parallels to Leviticus 16, which concerns the priestly Day of Atonement ritual:

Then Aaron shall come into the tent of meeting, and shall put off the linen garments which he put on when he went into the holy place, and shall leave them there; and he shall bathe his body in water in a holy place, and put on his garments, and come forth, and offer his burnt offering and the burnt offering of the people, and make atonement for himself and for the people. (Lev. 16:23-24)

Observe the pattern:

• The high priest undresses,
• bathes,
• dresses,
• and offers sacrifice.

It’s the same pattern found in John 13:

• Jesus undresses (v. 4),
• washes the disciples’ feet (v. 5-11),
• dresses (v. 12),
• and will soon offer himself in sacrifice.

Whereas in Leviticus the high priest washes all of himself, in John, Jesus washes the feet of the disciples. Jesus is sharing his high priesthood with the disciples; he must wash them—that is, ordain them as priests—lest they have “no part” in his own priesthood.

Indeed, washing is part of priestly ordination elsewhere in the Old Testament. In the midst of the “consecration” of Aaron and his sons, Moses “washed them with water” (Lev. 8:6-10). We also see Aaron and his sons being washed in Exodus 40:

Then you shall bring Aaron and his sons to the door of the tent of meeting, and shall wash them with water. (v. 12) […] And he set the laver between the tent of meeting and the altar, and put water in it for washing, with which Moses and Aaron and his sons washed their hands and their feet; when they went into the tent of meeting, and when they approached the altar, they washed; as the LORD commanded Moses. (Ex. 40:30-32)

Furthermore, the mention of having a “part” (meros) in John 13:8 recalls the priestly Levites having their portion (meris) in the LORD (Num. 18:20 and Deut. 10:9, LXX).

In short, in John 13 we have the disciples receiving a new status, the status of priests, as made clear by the substantial parallels to passages about priesthood in the Old Testament. If modern men and women wonder why Catholics have an all-male priesthood that wears vestments and offers the sacrifice of the Eucharist in churches that resemble temples, it’s because the Old Testament had an all-male priesthood that wears vestments and offers sacrifices in the tabernacle and temples.

 

[BreadOfLife]

I'm not ignoring them. I'm taking the whole passage about forgiveness into consideration. There's nothing here about a special Catholic priesthood that you have to go through to get forgiveness....

15“If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. 16But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ 17If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

18“Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.

19“Again, truly I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything they ask for, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven. 20For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them.”

The Parable of the Unmerciful Servant

21Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, “Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother or sister who sins against me? Up to seven times?”

22Jesus answered, “I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.

23“Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. 24As he began the settlement, a man who owed him ten thousand bags of gold was brought to him. 25Since he was not able to pay, the master ordered that he and his wife and his children and all that he had be sold to repay the debt.

26“At this the servant fell on his knees before him. ‘Be patient with me,’ he begged, ‘and I will pay back everything.’ 27The servant’s master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go.

28“But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred silver coins. i He grabbed him and began to choke him. ‘Pay back what you owe me!’ he demanded.

29“His fellow servant fell to his knees and begged him, ‘Be patient with me, and I will pay it back.’

30“But he refused. Instead, he went off and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay the debt. 31When the other servants saw what had happened, they were outraged and went and told their master everything that had happened.

32“Then the master called the servant in. ‘You wicked servant,’ he said, ‘I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. 33Shouldn’t you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?’ 34In anger his master handed him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.

35“This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother or sister from your heart.”

Matthew 18:15-35
​

All believers have the power of binding and loosing.

No - "All believers" do NOT have the power to bind and loose.
YOU are taking these verses out of context - like you do the REST of Scripture.

Matt. 18:15-6 (also, v. 19-20) are about forgiving personal sin against YOU by a brother.
Matt. 16:18-19, M1tt. 18-17-18, John 20:21-23 is about forginving ALL sins - and NOT just those against a person.

THIS is why Paul says:
Cor. 2:10
“Whomever you forgive anything, so do I. For indeed what I have forgiven, if I have forgiven anything, has been FOR YOU in the person of Christ”

The Apostles - and the Apostles ALONE were given the power to bind and loose by Jesus.
THEY ordained and passed this Authority onto other men who succeeded them (Acts 15:24, 2 Tim. 2:2).

YOUR claim is similar to the usurpation of these priestly poewers that Jude speaks of when some tried to assume the ministerial priesthood WITHOUT the Church’s consent (Jude 1:11). In this passage he compares them to the rebellion of Korah and their subsequent punishment (Numbers 16:1-35; 31:16).



.

 

[Illuminator]

In any event, the three-fold model of the priesthood which was in use at the time of Aaron was carried over into the New Testament and thus we find there also a high priest, ministerial priests, and universal priests. In the New Testament age the high priest is Jesus Christ (Heb. 3:1), the ministerial priests are Christ’s ordained ministers of the gospel (Rom. 15:16), and the universal priests are the entire Christian people (1 Peter. 2:5, 9).

So the Bible clearly states that all Christians are priests (1 Peter 2:5, 9), as the Catholic Church clearly teaches for all who bother to read its teachings, see Catechism of the Catholic Church 1141-4,
1268,
1305,
1535, 1547,
1591-2 on the common priesthood. But the Bible also said the same thing about the Israelites (Ex. 19:6), yet this did not prevent there from being a separate, ministerial priesthood even before the Law of Moses was given (Ex. 19:22, 24).
The Office of New Testament Priest – Jimmy Akin

The anti-authority Christians create a false dichotomy of "either/or", not "both/and". Since there is a common priesthood, somehow that rules out a separate ministerial priesthood, which is as stupid as it is unbiblical, another man made tradition.
.
.

 

[theefaith]

Wrong! YOu are using mans philosophy to seek to form a biblical doctrine.

the order of Melchizidech is always in the bible as singular! And order is "taxis" which means rank!

And you can have a high priest without lesser priests. The high priest was the one who offered the high sacrifice and the only one to enter the holy of holies!

17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

This was a priest hood that had only one priest and now has only one priest!

We are the nation of priests offering up the one sacrifice that was offered 2,000 years ago and not a perpetual sacrifice repeated every time an RCC pruest elevates the wafer.

priest may be singular but order is not
It is a priestly order
That’s why Paul can say

2 Corinthians 5:18
And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

 

[Illuminator]

Gen. 14:18 – this is the first time that the word “priest” is used in Old Testament. Melchizedek is both a priest and a king and he offers a bread and wine sacrifice to God.

Psalm 76:2 – Melchizedek is the king of Salem. Salem is the future
Jerusalem where Jesus, the eternal priest and king, established his new Kingdom and the Eucharistic sacrifice which He offered under the appearance of bread and wine.

Psalm 110:4 – this is the prophecy that Jesus will be the eternal priest and king in the same manner as this mysterious priest Melchizedek. This prophecy requires us to look for an eternal bread and wine sacrifice in the future.

Malachi 1:11 – this is a prophecy of a pure offering that will be offered in every place from the rising of the sun to its setting. Thus, there will be only one sacrifice, but it will be offered in many places around the world. This prophecy is fulfilled only by the Catholic Church in the Masses around the world, where the sacrifice of Christ which transcends time and space is offered for our salvation. If this prophecy is not fulfilled by the Catholic Church, then Malachi is a false prophet.

Exodus 12:14,17,24; cf. 24:8 – we see that the feast of the paschal lamb is a perpetual ordinance. It lasts forever. But it had not yet been fulfilled.

Exodus 29:38-39 – God commands the Israelites to “offer” (poieseis) the lambs upon the altar. The word “offer” is the same verb Jesus would use to institute the Eucharistic offering of Himself.

Lev. 19:22 – the priests of the old covenant would make atonement for sins with the guilt offering of an animal which had to be consumed. Jesus, the High Priest of the New Covenant, has atoned for our sins by His one sacrifice, and He also must be consumed.

Jer. 33:18 – God promises that His earthly kingdom will consist of a sacrificial priesthood forever. This promise has been fulfilled by the priests of the Catholic Church, who sacramentally offer the sacrifice of Christ from the rising of the sun to its setting in every Mass around the world.

Zech. 9:15-16 – this is a prophecy that the sons of Zion, which is the site of the establishment of the Eucharistic sacrifice, shall drink blood like wine and be saved. This prophecy is fulfilled only by the priests of the Catholic Church.

2 Chron. 26:18 – only validly consecrated priests will be able to offer the sacrifice to God. The Catholic priests of the New Covenant trace their sacrificial priesthood to Christ.

 

[Brakelite]

Gen. 14:18 – this is the first time that the word “priest” is used in Old Testament. Melchizedek is both a priest and a king and he offers a bread and wine sacrifice to God.

Psalm 76:2 – Melchizedek is the king of Salem. Salem is the future
Jerusalem where Jesus, the eternal priest and king, established his new Kingdom and the Eucharistic sacrifice which He offered under the appearance of bread and wine.

Psalm 110:4 – this is the prophecy that Jesus will be the eternal priest and king in the same manner as this mysterious priest Melchizedek. This prophecy requires us to look for an eternal bread and wine sacrifice in the future.

Malachi 1:11 – this is a prophecy of a pure offering that will be offered in every place from the rising of the sun to its setting. Thus, there will be only one sacrifice, but it will be offered in many places around the world. This prophecy is fulfilled only by the Catholic Church in the Masses around the world, where the sacrifice of Christ which transcends time and space is offered for our salvation. If this prophecy is not fulfilled by the Catholic Church, then Malachi is a false prophet.

Exodus 12:14,17,24; cf. 24:8 – we see that the feast of the paschal lamb is a perpetual ordinance. It lasts forever. But it had not yet been fulfilled.

Exodus 29:38-39 – God commands the Israelites to “offer” (poieseis) the lambs upon the altar. The word “offer” is the same verb Jesus would use to institute the Eucharistic offering of Himself.

Lev. 19:22 – the priests of the old covenant would make atonement for sins with the guilt offering of an animal which had to be consumed. Jesus, the High Priest of the New Covenant, has atoned for our sins by His one sacrifice, and He also must be consumed.

Jer. 33:18 – God promises that His earthly kingdom will consist of a sacrificial priesthood forever. This promise has been fulfilled by the priests of the Catholic Church, who sacramentally offer the sacrifice of Christ from the rising of the sun to its setting in every Mass around the world.

Zech. 9:15-16 – this is a prophecy that the sons of Zion, which is the site of the establishment of the Eucharistic sacrifice, shall drink blood like wine and be saved. This prophecy is fulfilled only by the priests of the Catholic Church.

2 Chron. 26:18 – only validly consecrated priests will be able to offer the sacrifice to God. The Catholic priests of the New Covenant trace their sacrificial priesthood to Christ.

Because I kept persisting in telling him the truth, @Illuminator has me on ignore. That doesn't stop me however from persisting in telling the truth. The Catholic priesthood in the Catholic earthly sanctuary is a counterfeit of the High Priesthood of Christ in the heavenly sanctuary. Counterfeiting anything of Christ is Antichrist. So called "illuminator" of course chooses to ignore this vital piece of information and continues to sell his fraudulent knock offs.

 

[Brakelite]

Sooooo, WHY do you keep on ignoring the verses that precede this??
Matt. 18:17-18 is talking Church Authority - and that disobedience to the Church means excommunication. Paul also taught about this (1 Cor. 5:9-13, 1 Tim. 1:20).

Verses 19-20 reference what Jesus was saying in verse 16: "If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, so that 'every fact may be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses."

Here is the entire passage - in CONTEXT . . .
Matt. 18:15-18
"If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have won over your brother. If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, so that 'every fact may be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses.'
If he refuses to listen to them, TELL THE CHURCH. If he refuses to listen even to the CHURCH, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector.
Amen, I say to you, WHATEVER YOU BIND on earth shall be bound in heaven, and WHATEVER YOU LOOSE on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Learn to prop[ely divide the Word of God instead of cherry-picking it . . .

Just like you BoL to conflate membership of the church and excommunication thereof with membership of the kingdom of God and backsliding to the level of a Gentile.
Conversion to Christianity and the acceptance of the gospel of Christ is not, nor ever has been, contingent upon membership of the Catholic Church nor it's assumed so called "authority".

 

[theefaith]

Just like you BoL to conflate membership of the church and excommunication thereof with membership of the kingdom of God and backsliding to the level of a Gentile.
Conversion to Christianity and the acceptance of the gospel of Christ is not, nor ever has been, contingent upon membership of the Catholic Church nor it's assumed so called "authority".

there’s more than one church???????
Matt 16:18 jn 10:16

 

[Brakelite]

there’s more than one church???????
Matt 16:18 jn 10:16

There are ways of identifying who is in God's church/Kingdom. In the OT the prophet said,
KJV Isaiah 8:20
20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

The law referred to Torah... The first 5 books of the Bible written by Moses, which included the Ten Commandments. The testimony is the rest of the scriptures, those inspired by the holy Spirit of God and written by the prophets.

KJV Amos 3:7
7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

In the NT this is confirmed when we reada description of the NT church...

KJV Revelation 12:17
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

And what is the testimony?

KJV Revelation 19:10
10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Your "church" rejects God's commandments, and rejects the testimony of Jesus by rejecting the prophets. Your church holds tradition to be of greater authority than the word of God, and your priests to have greater authority than the prophets.
Jesus pointed to "Moses and all the prophets" to substantiate His authority as Messiah... Your church received it's authority from pagan Rome.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

The Apostles - and the Apostles ALONE were given the power to bind and loose by Jesus.

We anti-Catholics do this all the time. Any two people who establish a matter of forgiveness between themselves here on earth establish the matter in heaven. It's that simple. Jesus is there in the midst of us in those moments. No Catholic priesthood required. If you think you need to go through a weak and corrupt system of mortal priests then that's what you need to do.

 

[theefaith]

There are ways of identifying who is in God's church/Kingdom. In the OT the prophet said,
KJV Isaiah 8:20
20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

The law referred to Torah... The first 5 books of the Bible written by Moses, which included the Ten Commandments. The testimony is the rest of the scriptures, those inspired by the holy Spirit of God and written by the prophets.

KJV Amos 3:7
7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

In the NT this is confirmed when we reada description of the NT church...

KJV Revelation 12:17
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

And what is the testimony?

KJV Revelation 19:10
10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Your "church" rejects God's commandments, and rejects the testimony of Jesus by rejecting the prophets. Your church holds tradition to be of greater authority than the word of God, and your priests to have greater authority than the prophets.
Jesus pointed to "Moses and all the prophets" to substantiate His authority as Messiah... Your church received it's authority from pagan Rome.

All wrong misunderstandings as usual

 

[Illuminator]

Conversion to Christianity and the acceptance of the gospel of Christ is not, nor ever has been, contingent upon membership of the Catholic Church nor it's assumed so called "authority".

The Catholic Church does not teach this, it is a straw man fallacy. The Apostles taught there is no salvation outside the church, the Catholic Church does not have the authority to change this. Made-in-America cults are unable to make the distinction between pagan Rome, and Christian Rome. As proof, the first 39(+1) popes were killed by pagan Romans. This fact does not appear on any anti-Catholic web site. So they are forced to re-write historical facts to make it fit their presuppositions.

 

[theefaith]

Just like you BoL to conflate membership of the church and excommunication thereof with membership of the kingdom of God and backsliding to the level of a Gentile.
Conversion to Christianity and the acceptance of the gospel of Christ is not, nor ever has been, contingent upon membership of the Catholic Church nor it's assumed so called "authority".

what authority does Christ have?
What mission does Christ have?
What ministry does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?

Peter and the apostles and their successors have the same! Jn 20:21-23

1 Pet 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark all died and outside the church there is no salvation!)