The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !

[ByGraceThroughFaith]

If forgiveness is based on the penitence of the sinner, why did Jesus need to die?

Hebrews 9:22, "Indeed, under the law almost everything is purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins"

 

[Tong2020]

It it beyond scripture? We are told in scripture why God picks Joe and not Jim...

Seriously? How many do you need?

"And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.’"

Why are some saved and not others? Because some don't call on the Lord, others do. Is that hard to understand?

One calls upon the name of the Lord because he was chosen by God for salvation and not the other way around where one is said to be chosen for salvation because he calls upon the name of the Lord.

Why some are saved and some were not, are secret, and belongs to God.

Tong
R2147

 

[Wrangler]

He is not treating all sinners the same, is he? How is that not unfair?

Because equality is evil and not fair. Fair is playing by the rules. They are God’s Rules.

 

[Wrangler]

The Bible doesn't claim it's A work. That's A false teaching.

It's not the Bible's claim, it's people alive today. It's not what work meant in that culture but what people today mean by work. The false teachings are:

• We do not have to do anything for our salvation.
• Children/babies/infants or the like are damned because they are ignorant of the work needed for their own salvation.

 

[brightfame52]

If all Christ died for shall be made righteous , and all without exception are not made righteous, then, common sense tells us that Christ did not die for all without exception..

Rom 5: 19b
so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

 

[Charlie24]

One calls upon the name of the Lord because he was chosen by God for salvation and not the other way around where one is said to be chosen for salvation because he calls upon the name of the Lord.

Why some are saved and some were not, are secret, and belongs to God.

Tong
R2147

The Son of God said "it is my Father's will that all men be saved and come to the knowledge of truth."

But Tong2020 says the Father picks and chooses who will be saved.

I wonder who we should believe?

 

[Wrangler]

The Son of God said "it is my Father's will that all men be saved and come to the knowledge of truth."

But Tong2020 says the Father picks and chooses who will be saved.

I wonder who we should believe?

I like this point but realize the 'want' of God does not necessarily translate to Him over-riding people's will to remain unrepentant.

 

[Charlie24]

I like this point but realize the 'want' of God does not necessarily translate to Him over-riding people's will to remain unrepentant.

It certainly doesn't, it implies His will. If His will is that all men be saved, why would He pass over any man?

The call is for "whosoever will" and whoever responds to the Gospel call is accepted! They are the chosen!

 

[Renniks]

The hardening has nothing to do with judgment but have everything to do with His sovereign will and purpose/s.

Nothing to do with judgement? What were the plagues? They were judgement on egypt for following false gods. In fact, each plague shows God's power over one of their supposed god's. God used pharaoh to show his power as a way to evangelize the Egyptians, that is showing them who was the true God.

 

[Renniks]

Mercy (of God) is grace and is unconditional. And it may well be taken to be “common” in the sense that God shows mercy to all peoples to some extent and as He wills, both to the saved and unsaved. If you don’t recall, I have shown you the first act of mercy of God on mankind, when He did not kill Adam and Eve the instant they sinned, but gave their time on earth, even nearly a thousand years. His mercy was not only to Adam and Eve, but even to all of Adam’s posterity. And this mercy extends even to this present time. This is strong and indisputable proof that mercy (of God) isn’t conditional.

He showed mercy on Adam and Eve for a reason also. Because he had a plan to save mankind and they were part of the plan. How is it unconditional when the unsaved only get nice sunsets and good food but we get eternal joy?

 

[Renniks]

While repenting unto God is a work of man, there is a problem concerning that. Repentance unto God, is something that was shown by scriptures that which fallen man seems not able to do. For repentance is not a one time act but one that is a continuing act, even to the very end of man’s earthly life.

So God told the ninevites to repent even though they couldn't? But they, in fact, did repent.

 

[Renniks]

No. That’s your mind, not mine.

There are things secret of God. They are secret in that God had not revealed them. What God had revealed are the things He wanted for us to know, for our good. And they are sufficient to serve God’s purpose. If for God that was sufficient, it should be to us.

Paul, concerning God said:

Romans 11:33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!

Tong
R2141

Sure. But why some are saved isn't among the hidden things. It's spelled out all through the Bible.

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
One calls upon the name of the Lord because he was chosen by God for salvation and not the other way around where one is said to be chosen for salvation because he calls upon the name of the Lord.

Why some are saved and some were not, are secret, and belongs to God.

The Son of God said "it is my Father's will that all men be saved and come to the knowledge of truth."

But Tong2020 says the Father picks and chooses who will be saved.

I wonder who we should believe?

Don’t wonder. We should believe God and in the one whom He sent, Jesus Christ.

It is not the Son of God who said that. It Paul who wrote and said of God, that He desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. Now, does that mean that all men will be saved? The obvious answer is NO. This is what Jesus said in John 6:44, “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.” He also said in 6:37, “ All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.” I did not say those, but the Lord Jesus Christ did. Were all men given by the Father to the Son to raise up in the last day? The answer is obviously NO.

Tong
R2148

 

[Tong2020]

It certainly doesn't, it implies His will. If His will is that all men be saved, why would He pass over any man?

The call is for "whosoever will" and whoever responds to the Gospel call is accepted! They are the chosen!

If you are referring to John 3:16, that isn’t a call but a plain statement of what God had done to save mankind. The “whomsoever will” reveals who the saved are and were chosen and given to the Son to raise up at the last day (John 6:37,44)

Tong
R2149

 

[Charlie24]

Don’t wonder. We should believe God and in the one whom He sent, Jesus Christ.

It is not the Son of God who said that. It Paul who wrote and said of God, that He desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. Now, does that mean that all men will be saved? The obvious answer is NO. This is what Jesus said in John 6:44, “No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day.” He also said in 6:37, “ All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.” I did not say those, but the Lord Jesus Christ did. Were all men given by the Father to the Son to raise up in the last day? The answer is obviously NO.

Tong
R2148

And the reason all men will not be raised up in the last day is because they chose not to be, they rejected the Gospel call.

God will not say to those, I just didn't choose you, He will say, I have called you with my Gospel and you have rejected my Son.

 

[Charlie24]

If you are referring to John 3:16, that isn’t a call but a plain statement of what God had done to save mankind. The “whomsoever will” reveals who the saved are and were chosen and given to the Son to raise up at the last day (John 6:37,44)

Tong
R2149

I know there is no reasoning with you! No one can say anything for you to see the truth!

I just have to let it go, I'll not waste my time!

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
The hardening has nothing to do with judgment but have everything to do with His sovereign will and purpose/s.

Nothing to do with judgement? What were the plagues? They were judgement on egypt for following false gods. In fact, each plague shows God's power over one of their supposed god's. God used pharaoh to show his power as a way to evangelize the Egyptians, that is showing them who was the true God.

Why God hardened Pharaoh is clearly stated in scriptures. And it’s not really about judgment, but about the sovereign will and purpose/s of God.

Tong
R2150

 

[Tong2020]

Tong2020 said: ↑
Mercy (of God) is grace and is unconditional. And it may well be taken to be “common” in the sense that God shows mercy to all peoples to some extent and as He wills, both to the saved and unsaved. If you don’t recall, I have shown you the first act of mercy of God on mankind, when He did not kill Adam and Eve the instant they sinned, but gave their time on earth, even nearly a thousand years. His mercy was not only to Adam and Eve, but even to all of Adam’s posterity. And this mercy extends even to this present time. This is strong and indisputable proof that mercy (of God) isn’t conditional.

He showed mercy on Adam and Eve for a reason also. Because he had a plan to save mankind and they were part of the plan. How is it unconditional when the unsaved only get nice sunsets and good food but we get eternal joy?

Yes, I believe everything that God does comes with good reason/s and is good.

The mercy of God is deep, the depths of which man could not really get to fathom completely.

<<<How is it unconditional when the unsaved only get nice sunsets and good food but we get eternal joy?>>>

I think I really can’t get the sense of your question.

Tong
R2151

 

[Renniks]

Did God reveal in particular how He decided to create Lucifer, how He decided to have the tree of the knowledge of good and evil accessible to Adam when He did not want him to eat of it, etc.?

Tong
R2143

Red herrings. Or as I like to call them: " there goes a squirrel!" When someone changes to other subjects it's usually because they don't want to admit they are wrong.

 

[Renniks]

He says he does.

No he doesn't.