No authority!

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theefaith

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Can’t wait to see the scripture that’s says faith alone? Or give your heart to Christ or accept Christ as your personal Lord and savior ( as if there’s a personal covenant between you and God) or what ever catchy phrase they changed to these days?

Charity / Love of God!

Deut. 6:4
Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord:

5 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

Luke 7:47
Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much:

1 cor 13:2
And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
(All faith = nothing without charity)


1 Peter 4:8
And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins.
(Even above “Faith alone”?)
 

theefaith

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What's the point you are trying to make?

the church and authority are in men

The authority of the church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles and their successors!

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 acts 9 eph 2:20

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Jesus Christ does not abandon His holy bride! Matt 28:19-20

Keys of authority! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
 

CadyandZoe

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the church and authority are in men

The authority of the church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles and their successors!

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 acts 9 eph 2:20

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Jesus Christ does not abandon His holy bride! Matt 28:19-20

Keys of authority! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18

Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors.

Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
Your view is based on circular logic. Your argument assumes the truth of the conclusion, instead of supporting it. More simply, you believe that authority "x" is the only true interpreter of the Biblical text, which is not independently confirmed but rather the claim is based on the claims made by authority "x".

Besides, the Bible is no different than any other written document, which conveys ideas through written language. It doesn't need special knowledge or anything other than a person skilled in reading.
 

theefaith

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Your view is based on circular logic. Your argument assumes the truth of the conclusion, instead of supporting it. More simply, you believe that authority "x" is the only true interpreter of the Biblical text, which is not independently confirmed but rather the claim is based on the claims made by authority "x".

Besides, the Bible is no different than any other written document, which conveys ideas through written language. It doesn't need special knowledge or anything other than a person skilled in reading.

All you have is a study club with fellowship and covid nixed the fellowship
All based on private judgement not the church founded by Christ
Christ and His church are one and teach the truth without error jn 8:32 16:13 Lk 1:4 matt 28:19
 

Wrangler

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Besides, the Bible is no different than any other written document, which conveys ideas through written language. It doesn't need special knowledge or anything other than a person skilled in reading

Not in my experience. In my experience Hebrews 4:12 is true. (NLT) For the word of God is alive and powerful. It is sharper than the sharpest two-edged sword, cutting between soul and spirit, between joint and marrow. It exposes our innermost thoughts and desires.

I talked with a pastor who had the same supernatural experience I did about this verse and how reading the same verse at different times - with the Spirit - gives new revelations. Even St Augustine wrote about this in his famous Confessions.
 

theefaith

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That’s how you get thousands of sects all claiming the Bible alone and the HS and all teaching God knows what! No unity of faith no unity of spirit and no order
These only come from obedience to a hierarchical teaching authority!

Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 acts 9 eph 2:20

Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Jesus Christ does not abandon His holy bride! Matt 28:19-20
 

theefaith

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Christ and His church continue His mission and ministry by the teaching authority of the apostles
They have the keys and the truth
Jn 8:32 16:13
 

BreadOfLife

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I'm not your son. You are talking in a condescending manner to me and others here. You show that I am not saying anything false about you. You value your church's doctrine and beliefs and worship over walking in the fruit of the Spirit. That's not uncommon on this side of the fence, either. I see it to be especially true in the more rigid and liturgical denominations, like yours. You need to learn what really counts toward being an obedient follower of Christ. It has little to do with what you're pushing here, and how you're doing it.
And if you have a problem with my exposing those who choose to LIE instead of rebuking the liars - then you have just exposed your own hypocrisy.

That's always the mpost interesting part of sanctimonious responses like yours.
Save your lectures for those on your own team . . .
 

BreadOfLife

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I am sorry, I forgot that for you , unless it has the Nihil Obstat and Impramatur You don't consider it valid! But it is histopry whether you wish to like it or not!
That's nonsense - and it ONLY applies to Catholic books and documents.

Some
of the sources I presented to YOU were NON-Catholic/anti-Hislop sources.
I even gave you a blatantly ANTI-Catholic/anti-Hislop source.
Remember this is the church that sent untold millions of babies to limbo before they cancelled it!
This is the church that made eating meat on Friday a mortal sin before they cancelled it.
This is the chruch that created purgatory.
This is the church that said wearing a brown Scapular would keep one from hell.
This is the church that still practices indulgences to get people out of mythical purgatory!
This is the church that announced anathema against anyone reading the bible!
WOW.
You're a LOT more ignorant than I gave you credit for.

- Limbo was never an official doctrine of the Catholic Church.
- The Catholic Church didn't com up with the idea of Purgatory - SCRIPTURE did (2 Macc. 42-46, 1 Cor. 3:12-15, Matt. 5:25-26, Matt. 12:32, Matt. 18:32-35 and Luke 12:58-59).
- Eating meat on Friday during Lent can STILL be a mortal sin.
- Brown Scapulars don't keep you ourt of hell - unless you endure in faith to the end (Matt. 24:13).
- Indulgences don't get ANYBODY out of Purgatory.
- The Church announced an anathema against ANYONE reading the Bible? PROVE it.

Either do your HOMEWORK - or don't post this manure. I'm embarrassed for you.
Of course - this is ALL just a pathetic dodge since I obliterated your "Hislop/Two Babylons" nonsense . . .
 

justbyfaith

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Can’t wait to see the scripture that’s says faith alone?

That would be Romans 4:5-6; though it doesn't specifically say "faith alone" but "faith apart from works".

So, if faith apart from works isn't alone, what is added to it?

- Eating meat on Friday during Lent can STILL be a mortal sin.

:rolleyes:

1Ti 4:1, Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2, Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3, Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
 

justbyfaith

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Here is a crap ton of errors.

But the most famous is I John 5:7-8, where the 3 witnesses are not trinitarian.
I looked at your list...it consists of contentions that certain people have of how the kjv should have been translated.

But there is no basis for believing that the way they would have translated it is, in fact, accurate; unless you become a Greek or Hebrew scholar and really look at the words in the scriptures indicated.

Merely taking the word of a Greek or Hebrew scholar that it should be translated differently presents the problem of creating a cult-like mentality as concerning that particular Greek or Hebrew scholar. Now that particular scholar is the authority on what scripture really says.

While the Greek and Hebrew scholars who translated the kjv had the Holy Spirit behind them and the fact that the Lord is both sovereign and Omnipotent and Loving indicates to me that He would not allow his unadulterated word to not be preserved in at least one translation that we read in common everyday English.

The educated scribes and Pharisees rejected Jesus while the common people heard Him gladly.

So, I am not going to seek to get my understanding of the unadulterated message of the gospel from today's educated Greek or Hebrew scholar.

There was a time and place for education in the original languages to work itself out in those languages being correctly translated when the kjv was translated.

Please note that I am not kjv-only in my understanding. I believe that we can gain understanding and insight by reading what we find in other translations. Therefore I am kjv-superior in my theology. I believe that, where things are missing in the newer translations that are included in the kjv, that the kjv is in fact correct in its rendering.

I don't want to miss out on anything that the Holy Spirit might want to minister to me.
 

marksman

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jesus is the head of the church, but he ascended to heaven now who in charge?

Fathers have care of their children, spiritual fathers care for our souls!

Pope, papa, father, yes spiritual father!

Isa 22 father

Christ is the head of the church!
Peter is appointed by Christ as the head of the church on earth!
Supreme pastor and teacher of the faithful!

Matt 10:2
First apostle Peter:

Matt 17:27
Jesus and Peter are one:
Jesus even works a miracle to make this point. 27 Notwithstanding, lest we should offend them, go thou to the sea, and cast an hook, and take up the fish that first cometh up; and when thou hast opened his mouth, thou shalt find a piece of money: that take, and give unto them for me and thee.

Mt 16:18 Peter received the keys of the kingdom: (jurisdictional authority of the universal church) and the power to bind and loose:

Lk 22:32
Peter commanded to confirm his breathren:

Lk 22:32
Jesus prays for Peter:

Jn 21:17
Peter commanded to Feed my sheep:

Matt 10:2
Peter is the prince of the apostles, head of the universal church on earth!

Jn 20:21-23
Peter and the apostles receive the Holy Spirit and the power to forgive sins:

Acts 1:15 1:17 1:26
Peter declares Judas office of apostle valid and vacant and chooses a successor:

Acts 2:14
Peter preaches the first sermon on Pentecost:

Acts 2:38
Peter requires baptism as the outward sign and initiation into the new covenant!

Acts 4:8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel,

Acts 5 authority of the apostles verified by them being stricken dead by God verifying Matt 16:18 matt 18:18 whatsoever you bind on earth is bound in heaven and the apostles have the light of the Holy Spirit!


1 Tim 1 Paul is Timothy’s spiritual father.
1 Jn 2:1 little children are adult Christians, John is their spiritual father.

Apostles have Care for our souls
(Acts 20:28 Jn 21:17 Heb 13:17)

Did someone say KFC?
 

Illuminator

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That would be Romans 4:5-6; though it doesn't specifically say "faith alone" but "faith apart from works".

So, if faith apart from works isn't alone, what is added to it?
It depends on how you define "faith". Faith is inseparable from hope and love, three cardinal virtues. Faith is never alone.

Rom. 3:20,28; Gal. 2:16,21; 3:2,5,10; Eph. 2:8-9 – many Protestants err in their understanding of what Paul means by “works of the law” in his teaching on justification. Paul’s teaching that we are not justified by “works of the law” refer to the law of Moses or to any legal system that makes God our debtor. They do not refer to good works done in grace with faith in Christ. This makes sense when we remember that Paul’s mission was to teach that salvation was also for the Gentiles who were not subject to the “works of the law.” Here is the proof:

James 2:24 – compare the verse “a man is justified by works and not by faith alone” to Gal. 2:16 – “a man is not justified by works of the law,” and Rom. 3:20,28 – “no human being will be justified in His sight by works of the law.”

James 2:24 appears to be inconsistent with Gal. 2:16 and Rom. 3:20,28 until one realizes that the Word of God cannot contradict itself.
This means that the “works” in James 2:24 are different from the “works of the law in Gal. 2:16 and Rom. 3:20,28. James is referring to “good works” (e.g.,clothing the naked; giving food to the poor) and Paul is referring to the “Mosaic law” (which included both the legal, moral and ceremonial law) or any works which oblige God to give us payment. Here is more proof:

Rom. 3:20,28; Gal. 2:16 – Paul’s phrase for “works of the law” in the Greek is “ergon nomou” which means the Mosaic law or Torah and refers to the teachings (legal, moral) and works (ceremonial) that gave the Jews the knowledge of sin, but not an escape from sin. We have further proof of this from the Dead Sea Scrolls which provide the Hebrew equivalent (“hrvt ysm”) meaning “deeds of the law,” or Mosaic law. James in James 2 does not use “ergon nomou.” He uses “ergois agathois.” Therefore, Paul’s “works of the law” and James’ “works” are entirely different types of works. Again, they could never contradict each other because the Scriptures are the inspired word of God.
JUSTIFICATION - Scripture Catholic
:rolleyes:

1Ti 4:1, Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2, Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3, Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
Paul is not talking about future Catholics, he is talking about Gnostic infiltrators. The Gnostics didn't fast according to the teachings of Jesus and Paul, they "abstained from meats" because they believed it was evil. The Gnostics "forbid to marry" because they believed the flesh was evil, not in accordance with Jesus and Paul's teaching on celibacy and marriage. Celibacy (only in the Latin rite) is a discipline, not a doctrine, therefore exceptions are made.

A day of abstinence is a day on which Catholics fourteen years or older are required to abstain from eating meat (a food which has historically been symbolic of feasting and festivities because it could not be eaten every day in most historic cultures for economic reasons). By abstaining from this festive food on Fridays, we symbolize our sorrow for our sins on the day on which the Lord Jesus died because of our sins.

A biblical basis for abstaining from meat as a sign of penance for our sins is found in the book of Daniel, where the prophet mourns over the sins of Israel:

"In the third year of Cyrus king of Persia . . . 'I, Daniel, mourned for three weeks. I ate no choice food; no meat or wine touched my lips; and I used no lotions at all until the three weeks were over.'" (Daniel 10:1-3)

Pope Francis on Fasting this Lent

Fast from hurting words and say kind words.
Fast from sadness and be filled with gratitude.
Fast from anger and be filled with patience.
Fast from pessimism and be filled with hope.
Fast from worries and have trust in God.
Fast from complaints and contemplate simplicity.
Fast from pressures and be prayerful.
Fast from bitterness and fill your hearts with joy.
Fast from selfishness and be compassionate to others.
Fast from grudges and be reconciled.
Fast from words and be silent so you can listen.

Pope Francis on Fasting | St. Francis Xavier (sfxmissoula.org)[/QUOTE]
 
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justbyfaith

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@Illuminator,

I didn't read your entire post but have this to say about the beginning words of it.

It is quite true that faith alone apprehends the Holy Spirit for a man (Galatians 3:14) and that if a man has the Holy Ghost, the love of the Lord is shed abroad in his heart through the Holy Ghost (Romans 5:5). And it is also true that the love of the Lord is not impractical (1 John 3:17-18).

That being said, we do not apprehend the regeneration and renewing of the Holy Ghost with works of righteousness which we have done (Titus 3:5) but with faith in Jesus Christ apart from works (Romans 4:5-6).

I cannot be regenerated or renewed in the Holy Ghost by giving $5 to the poor, or even $5,000,000...

But that work of the Holy Spirit is only wrought in a man when he places his faith in Jesus Christ and what He did for him on the Cross (1 Corinthians 15:1-4).