Hebrews 10:26-31

[marks]

In me, that is, in my flesh.

So . . . which is it? Paul? Or his flesh?

It is no more I, but sin that lives in me. So it's not Paul.

Much love!

 

[justbyfaith]

Let's talk Scripture.

Paul said, It is no more I who do it, but sin that lives in me.

What does that mean?

I think it means Paul recognizes that he isn't the sinner, rather, there is sin that lives in him, but is not him, and that is the source of sin. And this is why there is no condemnation. It's because God has completely separated us from our sin, and from it's source. He's ended our relationship with the Law, which was what condemns us, and has given us righteous life shared with Him.

But we still live in our Adamic bodies, in which sin lives.

Much love!

In me, that is, in my flesh.

So . . . which is it? Paul? Or his flesh?

It is no more I, but sin that lives in me. So it's not Paul.

Much love!

It is basically gnosticism.

It teaches that what we do in the flesh doesn't matter because our spirit-man cannot be involved in what we do in the flesh.

I would point out to you that that is gnosticism; false teaching to the core.

What we do in the flesh does matter because our whole person is involved in what we are doing.

Rom 8:13, For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

 

[justbyfaith]

You need to realize what Peter said in 2 Peter chapter 3:

2Pe 3:15, And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
2Pe 3:16, As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
2Pe 3:17, Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

 

[Tong2020]

We do have the Holy Spirit now.

And some, through the Holy Spirit, have the spiritual gift of "discerning of spirits".

That does not mean you and all who have the Holy Spirit are now perfect and are able to judge the world and angels.

Discerning of spirits is different from being able to judge truthfully and righteously.

But if you consider yourself one who is now made perfect and is able to be a perfectly truthful and righteous judge now, I won’t argue on that, as it is pointless to argue on such matter. That’s on you.

If anyone has the Holy Ghost, they can do that.

That’s your opinion. And it’s dangerous.

And I definitely disagree. Only one who is inspired by God like the apostles of Jesus Christ have such authority and knowledge and enablement or gifting.

But then again, I would not argue with you on that, if you consider yourself inspired like the apostles of Christ. That’s on you.

And it is an example of "out of context" understanding.

Clearly, the question should be asked, who is the Son? in both Hosea 11:1 and Matthew 2:15.

Since the answer is different in each verse; and yet one is the quoting of the other: it should be clear that the quoting of Hosea 11:1 in Matthew 2:15 is Matthew taking it out of context and making an application that was not in the original text.

I won’t argue on that. I can’t. How can if I already know, having heard from your own mouth, that you take verses isolated from their context? It is a futile exercise, if not for you, for me.

What, exactly, do you disagree with? Everything that I said there was biblically substantiated.

Never mind. I won’t argue for the same reason I stated above.

Tong
R1690

 

[Wynona]

I know you were talking to @Ferris Bueller there...but I kind of think that you think that you are talking to both of us, so I will respond.

I have indeed, also, been on both sides of this argument.

And, when I was on your side of it, there were sins that I felt free to commit and didn't feel a qualm of conscience about committing them. I would just confess them every time and think that that covered it.

Then I spent some time in prayer to the Lord and asked Him to show me something in the Bible that would help me to stop those sins. And He led me to Ezekiel 33:11-20. In fact, it came up the next day in my systematic reading of the Old Testament.

It showed me that sin is more serious than I had previously thought. And it woke me up.

So, when I preach the passage in question, people will respond by saying, "That is in the Old Testament and it is not valid today".

Nevertheless, the Holy Ghost spoke to me through that passage and gave me truth...truth that has set me free.

Fact is, 2 Timothy 3:16 is talking about the Old Testament...and so is 2 Peter 1:3-4.

All scripture (in the Old and New Testaments) is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction in righteousness...it contains promises that will help us to be partakers of the divine nature.

That is the bottom line.

So, perhaps you ought to take a second look at the passage in question (Ezekiel 33:11-20) and ask the Lord if maybe it is the truth that will set you free...

Because I am almost certain that because you carry the doctrine that you carry, you are very much like I used to be...making excuses for a sinful lifestyle and committing sins that you think you are getting away with.

Chances are the Lord is not chastening you for these sins...because you may very well be illegitimate and not a true son...so you are going along thinking that you are somehow holy because of the lack of chastening when it may simply be true that you are not a subject of His chastening because you are not His...

At least, that is one of the ways that a man might see it who is looking at it from the outside.

You may in fact be very much a child of God...and perhaps He chastens you severely over the sins that you commit on a regular basis....because I believe that at one point you testified that you do commit sins on a regular basis.

Does He chasten you over them?

If He doesn't, then the Bible teaches us that you are illegitimate and not a true son (Hebrews 12:5-11).

Better get your heart right if that is the case.

These verses in Ezekiel have had a freeing effect on me as well. :)

 

[justbyfaith]

That does not mean you and all who have the Holy Spirit are now perfect and are able to judge the world and angels.

Discerning of spirits is different from being able to judge truthfully and righteously.

Discerning of spirits is very helpful when it comes to making judgments about people. It can mean more than half the battle.

But if you consider yourself one who is now made perfect and is able to be a perfectly truthful and righteous judge now, I won’t argue on that, as it is pointless to argue on such matter. That’s on you.

If anyone is completely reliant on the Holy Spirit for judgment, they can judge righteous judgment without the flesh getting in the way.

That’s your opinion. And it’s dangerous.

And I definitely disagree. Only one who is inspired by God like the apostles of Jesus Christ have such authority and knowledge and enablement or gifting.

How were the apostles inspired, except in that they were filled with the Holy Ghost?

Are we not also filled with the Holy Ghost?

We may not have walked and talked with Jesus; but everything that we need for life and godliness is contained in the holy scriptures (2 Peter 1:3-4).

Never mind. I won’t argue for the same reason I stated above.

You won't argue for the reason that there is no basis for you to argue against what I have posted.

 

[Tong2020]

These verses in Ezekiel have had a freeing effect on me as well. :)

Hi Wynona!

I am interested, where were you freed from or of? Could you share that here?

Thanks.

Tong
R1691

 

[Tong2020]

Discerning of spirits is very helpful when it comes to making judgments about people. It can mean more than half the battle.

The truth remains. Discerning of spirits is different from judging truthfully and righteously.

The truth remains that until perfection comes, no Christian is yet perfect today that he is now able to perfectly judge truthfully and righteously the world and the angels.

Unless, you claim you are now, those truth remains.

If anyone is completely reliant on the Holy Spirit for judgment, they can judge righteous judgment without the flesh getting in the way.

That is clearly an IF.

If anyone perfectly knows the heart of man and perfectly knows all that the man had said, thought, and done, today, they can perfectly judge righteously and truthfully. Yes, that is an IF.

Do you claim and proclaim here that you are that IF? If so, just get on with it, for as I said I won’t argue on such matter, but leave it be.

How were the apostles inspired, except in that they were filled with the Holy Ghost?

Are we not also filled with the Holy Ghost?

We may not have walked and talked with Jesus; but everything that we need for life and godliness is contained in the holy scriptures (2 Peter 1:3-4).

I won’t argue on matters secret to God.

You won't argue for the reason that there is no basis for you to argue against what I have posted.

You are free to think and believe what you want sir. But you aren’t free to put words into my mouth or think for me. I told you clearly the reason why I won’t argue.

If I have the same character, mind and thinking as you, surely I will say what you said there. But I am not you. And apparently, I don’t have a character, mind, and thinking like you.

Tong
R1692

 

[justbyfaith]

The truth remains. Discerning of spirits is different from judging truthfully and righteously.

The truth remains that until perfection comes, no Christian is yet perfect today that he is now able to perfectly judge truthfully and righteously the world and the angels.

Unless, you claim you are now, those truth remains.

I do not claim to be perfect now, nor do I believe myself to be perfect now;

However, I accept the biblical teaching that we can be perfected in this life (1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 (kjv), Hebrews 10:14 (kjv), 1 John 3:9; 1 John 3:7, 1 John 3:3, 1 John 2:6; Jude 1:24, 2 Peter 1:10, 1 John 2:10; 1 John 3:6, 1 John 2:17; Romans 6:6 (kjv), Colossians 2:11 (kjv), (NLT).

 

[justbyfaith]

That is clearly an IF.

If anyone perfectly knows the heart of man and perfectly knows all that the man had said, thought, and done, today, they can perfectly judge righteously and truthfully. Yes, that is an IF.

Yes, and if anyone has the gift of "discerning of spirits", the Holy Spirit judges certain people through him as to whether they are saved or unsaved; because He knows the truth of the matter and relays it to the individual doing the "judging".

That individual may not judge that other individual on the basis of works; but on the basis of the impression given to him by the Holy Spirit. For the Lord has already done the judging on the basis of works.

 

[Wynona]

Hi Wynona!

I am interested, where were you freed from or of? Could you share that here?

Thanks.

Tong
R1691

I was thinking I had messed it up so badly in the past that I couldn't consider myself a Christian. The verses in Ezekiel let me know that any day is a day I can choose righteousness. Even if I had done wicked every day before, if I repent and do righteousness, then Id be saved.

Before reading that, I was trapped in my feelings of shame. After, I felt emboldened to start over and approach the Lord again. And I ran after Him hard ever since.

 

[Wynona]

I will try and continue reading through this whole thread today.

 

[marks]

It is basically gnosticism.

It teaches that what we do in the flesh doesn't matter because our spirit-man cannot be involved in what we do in the flesh.

I would point out to you that that is gnosticism; false teaching to the core.

I would just LOVE it if you were to actually learn what Gnosticism was before trotting it out against me again. This is what the Holy Spirit tells you to write?

This is purely "Guilty by Association". Everybody knows the Gnostics are wrong. Mark is Gnostice, ergo, Mark is wrong.

This is neither accurate nor honest, not in my mind. And you continue to do this.

Please, learn what Gnosticism is!

Much love!

 

[marks]

It teaches that what we do in the flesh doesn't matter because our spirit-man cannot be involved in what we do in the flesh.

To be sure, I have no idea what you mean when you say, "our spirit man cannot be involved in what we do in the flesh". That's nothing like anything I've written, and "involved" leaves it pretty wide open what you have in mind.

Again, I realize you had written that to impugn my view by comparing to a cultic view, even though any similarity is purely on the surface, if you put your words to make it look that way . . .

Just the same . . . I don't know what you mean when you write this above, but what Paul wrote was, It is no longer I, but sin that lives in me, and you won't understand that topic until you can understand this verse without trying to make it say something different, or calling Paul Gnostic.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I will try and continue reading through this whole thread today.

Wow!!!

 

[Ferris Bueller]

That does not mean you and all who have the Holy Spirit are now perfect and are able to judge the world and angels.

I don't see any difficulty in judging people's behavior. Why is it difficult for you?

 

[Tong2020]

I was thinking I had messed it up so badly in the past that I couldn't consider myself a Christian. The verses in Ezekiel let me know that any day is a day I can choose righteousness. Even if I had done wicked every day before, if I repent and do righteousness, then Id be saved.

Before reading that, I was trapped in my feelings of shame. After, I felt emboldened to start over and approach the Lord again. And I ran after Him hard ever since.

Thank you for sharing.

God bless!

Tong
R1700

 

[Behold]

The born again person struggles with sin.

If a born again person is struggling with sin, its because they are in the flesh, where the struggle exists, Ferris.
So, you are to not be there, and once you are not there anymore, you wont struggle, and you wont strive, as its created by those 2 that you stay there.

WE are not to live in the struggle, we are to live in the Grace that delivers us from the Struggle, Ferris.
Or as Paul teaches....>"Christ always Gives me the VICTORY".

See, Faith is in the heart but it operates or doesn't operate correctly .... = in the mind.
"the mind of faith".
"the mind of Christ".

See those?
So, when a person is born again, we "work out our salvation in awe and wonder" by coming into the right mind that is to exist as walking in the spirit.
Walking in the Spirit, is not to walk around uttering a prayer language, but rather its to exist in the right mind of Faith, regarding God's Perspective at all times.
Christ is God, and when we have "the mind of Christ", we have the Mind of God.
See that?
That is what you will never be taught in your commentaries, or by your Ministers, or by your Pope.
They can't teach what they don't know.
But i can, so, im glad you are here, and it'll be for your future spiritual benefit that you hang around my Threads.

Listen...When you exit in the right MIND of Faith, when you learn how, then the striving and the struggle is no more empowered by the Law to keep you locked up in "sin consciousness", which is why you sin and confess and can't really ever stop.

See, the "power of sin, is THE LAW".
The Law is what empowers the wrong mind towards carnality that is the sinning and repenting and confessing , and cant stop...lifestyle.

Thats broken faith and broken discipleship.

So, you have to get out from under the Law's dominion and only exist in your right believing as = "under Grace".
Once you are there, in your mind, the mind of your Faith.... you'll begin to rest in God's Grace which is the power that perfects discipleship.

 

[BloodBought 1953]

I will try and continue reading through this whole thread today.

BB’s stuff is the best.....just giving you a head’s up.....lol....

 

[justbyfaith]

They can't teach what they don't know.
But i can,

You can teach what you don't know?

If you don't know it to be truth, why would you teach it?

BB’s stuff is the best.....just giving you a head’s up.....lol....

Nope...jbf's stuff is the best...:cool: