A Christian who deny Jesus is God in Flesh

[justbyfaith]

I'm going to change the subject slightly.

It should be clear that there is one Lord in holy scripture (Ephesians 4:5); and that this Lord is the Father (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21). However, no one can say that Jesus is the Lord except by the Spirit of truth (1 Corinthians 12:3 (kjv)). And, Jesus is the Lord (1 Corinthians 8:6).

So, there is one Lord (Ephesians 4:5), the Father (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21).

In light of this scripture, do you confess that Jesus is the Lord?

If you don't, then you don't have the Holy Ghost (1 Corinthians 12:3 (kjv)).

@jaybird,

No response?

Are you certain that you are not running away from the discussion?

 

[mjrhealth]

John 8:24 "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins."

And who is HE

Mat 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Ye Jesus Christ the Son of teh living God, He knows he is the son and the father knows he is the son, so why dont ypu??

Mar_1:11 And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased

Are you willing to deny God a son. or Christ His father

Joh_20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Or is His father not your God

 

[justbyfaith]

And who is HE

Mat 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Ye Jesus Christ the Son of teh living God, He knows he is the son and the father knows he is the son, so why dont ypu??

Mar_1:11 And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased

Are you willing to deny God a son. or Christ His father

Joh_20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

Or is His father not your God

The Son shall have the name of "The everlasting Father" (Isaiah 9:6).

 

[jaybird]

First thanks for the reply,......... g money and second, as said we are discussing, and not arguing. yes, I agree that a son comes for a Father, if we are speak biologically. but consider how the term is used in context. first lets look at the definition. my source is the Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words.
Son: G5207, huios primarily signifies the relation of offspring to parent, See John 9:18-John 9:20; Gal 4:30. "this is what most people think of a son, the biological definition", but I believe it's used in the Godhead, as for the Lord Jesus, the Son, is not so. let the definition tells us. listen to how it also can be used.

It is often used metaphorically of prominent moral characteristics. (A). descendants, without reference to sex, Rom 9:27. (B). those who act in a certain way, whether evil, Matt 23:31, or good, Gal 3:7. (C). those who manifest a certain character, whether evil, Acts 13:10; Eph 2:2, or good, Luke 6:35; Acts 4:36; Rom 8:14. (D). the destiny that corresponds with the character, whether evil, Matt 23:15; John 17:12; 2Thess 2:3, or good, Luke 20:36; (E). those who enjoy certain privileges, Acts 3:25. please look up this term. now there are other words that Identify a son also. but when it comes to the Lord Jesus, G5207, huios is prominentely used.

looking at our definition above, beside it's biological use, it is clear that when it comes to bibical use, that biological use is not what is ment. example, 2 Timothy 1:2 "To Timothy, my dearly beloved son: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord."
we know that Timothy was not Paul's biological ... "son". but the term G5043 τέκνον teknon (tek'-non) n. is used.
a child (as produced).
[from the base of G5098]
KJV: child, daughter, son
Root(s): G5088

ok 10g i am back, sorry i couldnt get to you sooner. i made a few other replies at work and i dont want you thinking "he got them but puts me on the back burner?" its not like that, this is a bit deeper, you got a well thougth out theory and i want to return the favor.

the beloved son with Paul and Timothy. i understand what your saying, we wouldn't think biological son here. the relationship between Jesus and His Father IMO is a bit different. we see Jesus referring to Him a lot, always Honoring His Father. He comes not in His name but the Fathers name, He does not His will but the Fathers will. it doesnt sound like two co equals or two that are one and the same, it sounds like one person sent on a mission by another. it also sounds like the Father is greater if He is the one doing the sending, the source of the power, the superiorer will that must be carried out by the Son.
when Jesus is baptized the Father tells everyone, this is my Son. and when the Father says this it is said with emphasis. IMO He wants everyone there to know this is the Son of the Most High. if He wasnt a real son it seems like an odd thing to say. if Paul said this in front of the church, the people would probable assume its symbolic like we both agree earlier, if Paul makes the same statement in front of those that didnt know the relationship between the two wouldnt they think a real son?

Matthew 7 7-11

7“Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 8For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks it will be opened. 9Or which one of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone? 10Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent? 11If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!
their is one difference i see, the Father is the Father of us all, humans and sons of the Most High, but unlike the rest, Jesus accomplished something the rest did not, where Adam failed, Jesus succeeded. that is why He is a son but more importantly, "the" Son.
here Jesus compares the Father in heaven to our fathers we have here in this world. if their relationship was different IMO the teaching doesnt make sense

but why was the term son, G5043 τέκνον teknon used? lets see, scripture, 1 Timothy 1:2 "Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord." that cleared it up, there we have it, a "son" in the faith"., and not biologically. as we can see clearly in this scripture, listen,1 Corinthians 4:15 "For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel."
again, the apostle Paul is using a biological metaphor for a spiritual representation.

now, when the Holy Ghost overshadow Mary, it was not in a biological way. understand, the term "overshadow" is the Greek term,
G1982 ἐπισκιάζω episkiazo (ep-ee-skee-ad'-zo) v.
1. to cast a shade upon
2. (by analogy) to envelop in a haze of brilliancy
3. (figuratively) to invest with preternatural influence

definition #3. tells us how the body, (the flesh and blood), was conceived, because the spirit that dwelt in that flesh and blood is ETERNAL, never begotten. but what was begotten, (flesh and blood/a body), as Isaiah 9:6 states... "Child", and the "son" is given, Spirit, not begotten nor the the Spirit was born. but that child, was by "preternatural influence", which means, "not in the natural way of conception between a man and a women". so the Lord Jesus the spirit, nor was his Body, was of HUMAN conception. so biologically he's no one's son.... follow me?

so the question, "why is the Lord Jesus, God almighty .... is called a Son? answer, A. the term "Son" means metaphorically, not biological, "character" and guess what else? that's God character, or characteristics ... "Holy", for God is Holy, and you and I know that his nature is "Spirit, hence the appellation, "Holy... Spirit"...... see it. understand "Holy" is God's character/the Son, and Spirit is his Nature/Father. supportive scripture, Hebrews 1:3 "Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;"
that word "express Image" is G5481 χαρακτήρ charakter (cha-rak-teer') n.
1. an engraver (the tool or the person).
2. (by implication) an engraving.
3. (hence) a “character,” the figure stamped.
4. (by extension) an exact copy.
5. (figuratively) a representation.
[from charasso “to sharpen to a point” (akin to G1125 through the idea of scratching)]
KJV: express image

there it is in definition #3, "character", just as G5207, huios, Son, states, listen, metaphorically of prominent moral characteristics. there we go, the TITLE identify "character", that's why we're called sons of God, why? because of our "character" be ye "holy" for I am Holy. BINGO, being Holy is a son, because every son act like their Father, and here it's Holiness for us.

the Lord Jesus who is the Equal share of his ownself, in flesh, as the Son, he's the builder, what a natural son do, over his OWN house, (hebrews 3:6). for we 're in HIM, and in him dwells the Godhead fully... there it is.

now, the term Father, again his NATURE... Spirit, per John 4:24a. when the Lord Jesus said while on earth, in shared/diversifed flesh, "My Father which art in heaven, he's simply saying, My Spirit, which is in heaven, (because he in a diversified state and is the EQUAL SHARE of that ONE Spirit, Per Phil 2:6). and when the LORD Jesus say from heaven, My Son on earth, he's saying my Body on earth.

so in conclusion, the Lord Jesus is called Son, which is only a title, and not biologically, but speaking Spiritual or metaphorically of "character".

hope you understand, and thanks in advance for a civil reply and discussion. if you have any questions, first re-read the post, or please ask.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

i always thought the spirit created Jesus the same as the spirit forms the rest of us, the only difference in this case is there was not a biological father in this one therefore the spirit had to intercede.
also i have never heard of the term son used in a co equal context. the father is always the greater.

ok gotta take a break, just heard the little lady say supper is ready. will be happy to discuss more later.

 

[jaybird]

Not all of mankind...just Jesus Christ; who is the only begotten Son of God.

this means Jesus is one thing, and all of mankind is something different. This means mankind and Jesus are not the same therefore Jesus is not a man.

Now do you see the problem?

He is...for He came only in the likeness of sinful flesh (His flesh was truly without sin)...but I fail to see your point.

How does the fact that Jesus Himself is 100% Man and 100% God make that true of all mankind?

explained above

 

[mjrhealth]

The Son shall have the name of "The everlasting Father" (Isaiah 9:6).

So you are actively denying God a son and Christ His father, taking away all that honor Give Him by the father

Act_13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

You know what begotten means??? did God create Himself,

 

[WaterSong]

So you are actively denying God a son and Christ His father, taking away all that honor Give Him by the father

Act_13:33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

You know what begotten means??? did God create Himself,

Yes. That's what beget means. biblical definition beget - Google Search

God is creator. God created himself into the human form of Emmanuel to bring the good news of Salvation to the human family beget by him in the beginning.

 

[justbyfaith]

this means Jesus is one thing, and all of mankind is something different. This means mankind and Jesus are not the same therefore Jesus is not a man.

Now do you see the problem?

No.

You know what begotten means??? did God create Himself,

It would appear to be so.

For without Jesus Christ nothing was made that was made (John 1:3).

And yet, Jesus, in His humanity, was made (Romans 1:3, Isaiah 45:11).

 

[jaybird]

No.

do you really not see the problem or you just refusing to acknowledge?
lets try something different.
are you the Most High?

 

[justbyfaith]

do you really not see the problem or you just refusing to acknowledge?
lets try something different.
are you the Most High?

I don't think so.

It has been prophesied by the Oneness Pentecostals that the Father is going to come to the earth to help with things before Jesus returns.

But I think that it is a slim chance that I would be the one of whom they prophesied.

 

[jaybird]

first thanks for the reply, second, I perfer to discuss. third, I'm guessing that you didn't understand what I posted. fourth, why should I tell you that you're Right or Wrong? let the scriptures tell you if you're right or wrong?.

now a simple test, since you said, "I write so much". answer yourself, " is the Person in John 1:3 WHO MADE ALL THINGS, is he, the same Person in Isaiah 44:24 who MADE ALL THINGS", YES or NO? this will answer your Father and Son question.

now, you answer yourself. and weight the result...... you will have your answer.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

i believe all things were made through Jesus. the Father was the source of the creating power.

 

[justbyfaith]

@jaybird,

A Christian who deny Jesus is God in Flesh

 

[jaybird]

I don't think so.

but Jesus was a man and He was the Most High.

It has been prophesied by the Oneness Pentecostals that the Father is going to come to the earth to help with things before Jesus returns.

But I think that it is a slim chance that I would be the one of whom they prophesied.

never heard that before

 

[mjrhealth]

For without Jesus Christ nothing was made that was made (John 1:3).

Hmm too much learning, all thing where made by His word.

Gen_1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

and by His word light was.

Isa_55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

And His word did just that.

 

[justbyfaith]

Hmm too much learning, all thing where made by His word.

Gen_1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

and by His word light was.

Isa_55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

And His word did just that.

You agree that Jesus is the Word. How is it that you don't put two and two together?

 

[101G]

That introduction in future, being Emmanuel would be born into a Jewish family and a Jewish culture, would inform all who heard it to whom they were speaking or/and being introduced.

indeed, the messiah was "BORN", into, and NOT From a jewish family. supportive scripture, Hebrews 7:14 "For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood." OUT OF, not FROM Juda.

and what came out of Juda was flesh, bone, and blood.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[101G]

Mat 16:15 He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Ye Jesus Christ the Son of teh living God, He knows he is the son and the father knows he is the son, so why dont ypu??

he's not a biological son. that your mistake. no, he's THE Son in title only. for he is the same person. if not reconcile John 1:3 and Isaiah 44:24, that's all you have to do.

so I'll be looking for your answer..

Mar_1:11 And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased

Are you willing to deny God a son. or Christ His father

Good, so post me one scripture that say this was the "Father's" voice here at the Baptism of the Lord? and that will answer your question, well.......... JUST ONLY ONE, ONE scripture...
and I'll be looking for that answer also.


PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[WaterSong]

indeed, the messiah was "BORN", into, and NOT From a jewish family. supportive scripture, Hebrews 7:14 "For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood." OUT OF, not FROM Juda.

and what came out of Juda was flesh, bone, and blood.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

Actually it is per the scriptures both. Jesus/Emmanuel was born into a Jewish family and from a Jewish family lineage, the latter necessary to meet the prophecy criteria for Messiah. Luke 3:23-38.
Mary his mother was of the line of King David.
In her time, Mary's, Judaism was marked through the Matrilineal line. (through the mother)

 

[101G]

ok 10g i am back, sorry i couldnt get to you sooner. i made a few other replies at work and i dont want you thinking "he got them but puts me on the back burner?" its not like that, this is a bit deeper, you got a well thougth out theory and i want to return the favor.

First thanks for the reply, and no worries, take your time. we have until the Lord return's ..... according to some... (smile).

The beloved son with Paul and Timothy. i understand what your saying, we wouldn't think biological son here. the relationship between Jesus and His Father IMO is a bit different. we see Jesus referring to Him a lot, always Honoring His Father. He comes not in His name but the Fathers name, He does not His will but the Fathers will. it doesnt sound like two co equals or two that are one and the same, it sounds like one person sent on a mission by another. it also sounds like the Father is greater if He is the one doing the sending, the source of the power, the superiorer will that must be carried out by the Son.

thanks for a GOOD reply, let us ease your concerns.
A. "He comes not in His name but the Fathers name" which is JESUS, as the Name we Baptize in, one in the same Name, so any separation and distinction goses out the door, which I agree with you on.

B. "He does not His will but the Fathers will." lets clear up this matter, follow me. Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me."
God's own ARM? is he, God himself... OWN. now watch how the bible clear this up, on "Doing his OWN will". Arm here is God's Power... in flesh. remember in Philippians 2:7, God's OWN ARM was G2758 κενόω kenoo. now watch how the bible talk to you, and answer your question,
The arm of flesh vs The Arm of the LORD, “authority”

when Sennacherib, the king of Assyria invaded Judah, Hezekiah had a talk with the LORD, listen.
2 Chronicles 32:7 "Be strong and courageous, be not afraid nor dismayed for the king of Assyria, nor for all the multitude that is with him: for there be more with us than with him: verse 8 With him is an arm of flesh; but with us is the LORD our God to help us, and to fight our battles. And the people rested themselves upon the words of Hezekiah king of Judah".

there is our answer, "an arm of flesh". here, an "ARM of FLESH is Sennacherib, the king of Assyria, ARMY.. his POWER, an "Arm of Flesh" his POWER, well the Lord Jesus, IN FLESH is God's ARM of FLESH, an ARMY of ONE, supportive scripture, 1 Corinthians 1:24 "But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God." woop's there it is. understand an army do not do it's own will, it's under authority. meaning, it, an army just don't on it's own jump up and start fighting another country on it's own. no, it, the ARMY, is under authorty, so it do not do it's own WILL, but is under authority to do the "WILL" of the one in charge of it. that's why Jesus said, "NOT MY WILL", for true, no army, an "ARM" of flesh do it's own will, the army/arm of Flesh is under orders/authority, to do the will of the one in charge of ti, the army. just as the Lord Jesus is under authority, NOT TO DO HIS WILL, BUT THE ONE WHO SENT HIM.

now lets make it crystal clear... the Lord Jesus is God's, the Spirit, the Holy Spirit own "ARM" according to Isaiah 63:5 "And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me."

now tell me g money, do your own ARM on your body just slap someone else up side their head without your authority? no, of course not. you must first give authority to you "OWN" ARM to ACT... correct. now REVELATION time, this is why the Lord Jesus recieved the POWER, the Holy Spirit at his Baptism so that he could "ACT",. or carry out the Spriit/Father Will. remember, 1 Timothy 3:16 "And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory." in a G2758 κενόω kenoo state, according to Phil 2:7, he could do NOTHING on his own, hence the reason of the Baptism, to EMPOWER.

see how easy the bible reveal hard questions, the bible just make them simple, and easy to understand.

and notice, with the Spirit, he had it without measure...... (smile).... . scripture, John 3:34 "For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him." BINGO.

so we know that the "ARM" of God is his POWER, this is the fulfilment of Psalms 110:1 and verse 5 to come.

see how easy it is how the bible answer all questions concering the Godhead.

when Jesus is baptized the Father tells everyone, this is my Son.

as I said before to mjrhealth, just post me ONE, only ONE scripture, which say this is the Father's voice from heaven, don't assume anything, but say what the bible say with God'd Holy Wisdom and UNDERSTANDING, and you want go wrong.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[101G]

i believe all things were made through Jesus. the Father was the source of the creating power.

First thanks for the reply, but ERROR, and here's why. the Lord Jesus was alone.... Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;"
ALONE? and by himself? meaning he didn't go through anyone. and two, by being "ALONE", then that mean there is no second person, nor a third. and on top of this, and notice it was the LORD who made all things. is not the "LORD" all cap is the Father..... Isaiah 63:16 "Doubtless thou art our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O LORD, art our father, our redeemer; thy name is from everlasting." so if the Lord Jesus and the one whom you calls the Father, and the one who is the Lord is a separate person then you will be contradicting God' Holy Word, the bible. see, if you think that the the Word in John 1:3 who made all things, the Lord, is a separate, and distinct person, from the person in Isaiah 44:24, then you're in conflict, or at odds with the bible.

or...... you can agree with the Bible, that the LORD in ISAIAH 44:24 is the same person in John 1:3 and that will destroy your think or belife of a Father and Son in a biological sense, but in "TITLE" only.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"