A Christian who deny Jesus is God in Flesh

[WaterSong]

1 Timothy 3:16

Says God was manifested in the flesh. Talking about Jesus. Thank you and have a good evening

YES!
Well done. :)
"And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory."

 

[justbyfaith]

The persons cannot be distinct and yet three and yet one.

Why not? (see Luke 1:37)

 

[amadeus]

There is a work of the flesh identified as heresies.

So the fact that there is not unity among believers does not mean that there isn't one truth of the Bible concerning every issue but that because it appeals to the flesh, certain people jump on rabbit trails and come up with things that aren't according to the truth of God's word.

Without openly saying it, it appears to me that you have icome close to agreeing with what I wrote. There are some differences, but God knows about all of the differences. What really gets His favorable attention is the hearts of people pointed in the right direction. Good theology won't do it... not without a real effort to live perfectly according to that good theology.

King David, for all of his faults described in written scriptures, was effectively called the apple of God's eye and a man after God's own heart. It was David's heart that brought to him these titles, not the man's flawless works on God's behalf throughout his lifetime. Our hearts are the important thing. How are our hearts as God sees them?

 

[WaterSong]

Ive being wrong many times in my life, but I know who my father is and who my saviour is, dont you???

:) I know my Savior is God. And he is not triune but is, as he said, one.

But back to @jaybird what is His blasphemy please enlighten me

When you don't see it, I can't help you.
Why would you concern yourself with the tree that is in their eye?

 

[justbyfaith]

:) I know my Savior is God. And he is not triune but is, as he said, one.

Do you confess that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh? (I think you do or else you have the spirit of antichrist, 1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7).

How do you see this reality in light of Isaiah 57:15, John 4:23-24?

 

[mjrhealth]

:) I know my Savior is God. And he is not triune but is, as he said, one.


When you don't see it, I can't help you.
Why would you concern yourself with the tree that is in their eye?

Yes we have one God, not one person here is denying that, not a one.... so where is the blasphemy....???

 

[WaterSong]

Blasphemy, where,, are you sure it is not you???

When I rebuke a disciple of the Devil, you betcha!
I've read your posts. Are you sure you're not casting stones when they should be thrown at you?

 

[WaterSong]

Do you confess that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh? (I think you do or else you have the spirit of antichrist, 1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7).

How do you see this reality in light of Isaiah 57:15, John 4:23-24?

I confess that Emmanuel (God with us) Yeshua bin Joseph, Jesus the Christ, was GOD in the flesh.

 

[mjrhealth]

When I rebuke a disciple of the Devil, you betcha!
I've read your posts. Are you sure you're not casting stones when they should be thrown at you?

Throw them if you like wont hurt, ive had worse. But than just just means you have run out of excuses.

Some thing to do with pharisees getting offended

 

[ChristisGod]

The spirit of antichrist and how to "test the spirits " in 1 & 2 John.

The number one test to distinguish truth for error and the Spirit of God from that of the spirit of antichrist is the confession of our divine Lord Jesus Christ. Every spirit that confesses Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God. There is one thing the spirit of antichrist will deny and that is they will deny the deity of Jesus Christ. They will deny God in human flesh. They will always deny the Incarnation which was permanent. When a person affirms that Jesus Christ is God in flesh that equates to divine truth. Every spirit that confesses meaning to continually confess or agrees with saying the same thing as John declares in his writings is from God. This is the person who is taught by the Spirit of God according to John. The first test that you want to have for any teacher is their Christology, check out what they say about Christ. This becomes a litmus test that is very easy to spot among the false teachers. If you have somebody who denies the deity of Christ you have a clear indication they are of the spirit of antichrist.

If we go back to the beginning of 1 John, we read that which we he beheld, and actually touched concerning the Word of life. That is a term expressing the very deity of Christ. Christ emanates from God as His living Word. He was with the Father in the beginning in 1:2. Jesus was One with the Father sharing the same essence with the Father in heaven with Him before the foundation of the world. John says He was manifested to us. John's language then starts out with the fact that Jesus Christ emanates from God as the very living Word of God. Jesus is the living Word of God,the One John says that was from the beginning that we heard, we saw and we touched. Jesus the Word of life was the eternal One who was with the Father prior to His Incarnation and was then manifested to us in the flesh that we could see and hear and touch according to John. Therefore, we can clearly see Jesus is the very Word of God Incarnate. He is the eternal life who became flesh. The Word who was with God, the Word who was God, was the One who John says was manifested to us. This is how we can tell the spirit of truth from the spirit of antichrist. Can you confess Jesus is God Incarnate?


1 John 4:2
By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God;

2 John 1:7
For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.

Erchomenon (coming)the present participle in 2 John1:7.

Below these renown Greek Scholars and Linguistic experts on the New Testament confirm the above.

Alford- the present tense is timeless(pg 274 RNTC on 2 John)

Brooke- the Incarnation is not only an event in history, it is an abiding truth(pg 274 RNTC on 2 John)

Stott- the two natures manhood and Godhood were united already at His birth, never to be divided. In 1 John 4:2 and here in 2 John 7 emphasizes this permanent union of the natures in the One Person ( TNTC pages 209-210) He who denies the Incarnation is not just a deceiver and an antichrist but “the deceiver and the antichrist”. There is in this heresy a double affront: it opposes Christ and deceives men.(stott TNCT page 210)

Marshall- the use of the present and perfect tenses becomes significant if the point is that Jesus Christ had come and still existed “in flesh”. For him(John) it was axiomatic that there had been a true Incarnation, that the word became flesh and remained flesh. It is a point that receives much stress in 1 John 2:18-28;4:1-6;5:5-8. (NICNT pages 70-71)

Smalley- the present tense emphasizes the permanent union of the human and Divine natures in Jesus. Gods self disclosure in Jesus took place at a particular moment in history , but it has continuing effects in the present and into the future(Word Biblical Commentary page 317)

Nicoll- the continuous manifestation of the Incarnate Christ(Expositors Greek Testament Volume 5 page 202)


Akin- Much has been made of the fact that John uses the present tense in this Christological confession. Literally the verse reads, “Jesus Christ coming in flesh.” “Coming” is a present active participle. This stands out in remarkable contrast to the affirmation of 1 John 4:2, where the text states that “Jesus Christ has [emphasis mine] come in the flesh.” There the perfect active participle is used. The key, it seems, is to discover what John is affirming. Here in 2 John the emphasis falls on the abiding reality of the incarnation. First John 4:2 teaches that the Christ, the Father’s Son (v. 3), has come in the flesh. Second John affirms that the wedding of deity and humanity has an abiding reality (cf. 1 Tim 2:5). The ontological and essential nature of the incarnation that would receive eloquent expression one thousand years later in the writing of St. Anselm (1033–1109) in his classic Cur Deus Homo is already present in seed form in the tiny and neglected letter of 2 John.


Lenski- In 1 John 4:2 we have ἐν σαρκὶ ἐληλυθότα, the perfect participle, “as having come in flesh” (incarnate, John 1:14); here we have ἐρχόμενον ἐν σαρκί, “as coming in flesh,” although the participle is present in form it is really timeless.
of Christ as "still being manifested." See the note at 1 John 3:5. In 1 John 4:2 we have the manifestation treated as a past fact by the perfect tense, ‎eleeluthota ‎"has come

Robertson- That Jesus Christ cometh in the flesh ‎Ieesoun ‎‎Christon ‎‎erchomenon ‎‎en ‎‎sarki‎. "Jesus Christ coming in the flesh." Present middle participle of ‎erchomai ‎treating the Incarnation as a continuing fact which the Docetic Gnostics flatly denied. In 1 John 4:2 we have ‎eleeluthota ‎(perfect active participle) in this same construction with ‎homologeoo‎, because there the reference is to the definite historical fact of the Incarnation.

Vincent- Is come ‎erchomenon‎. Wrong. The verb is in the present participle, "coming," which describes the manhood

hope this helps !!!

 

[WaterSong]

When did the truth become a theological issue or it the issue that it is the truth and you want to use theology, mens wisdom to negate it,

they would rather believe the lie, yes men...

You would do well to find a dictionary and learn the definition of Theology. And then, Apologetics. And then, Soteriology. And then, Bibliology.

Men canonized scripture. The Bible, the words of God, come to us first through the machinations of men! And numerous councils convened for the purpose of manifesting the canon.

These are things you do not know. You evidence this when you presume to give your own preferred interpretation of scripture, which is not that which upholds the sanctity of The Word nor the church. And then cast aspersions upon those who are learned in all those areas of study you are ignorant (not educated or aware) of.

Major Health is therefore in major deficit in these matters. And then you call others into question because we do not see the word as you prefer to, and would that we agree with your errant misunderstanding.
It is true just due to the facts. When you have no comprehension of theology you have no business debating theology nor theists.

By the way, that's not a slight. That's reality. I am ignorant of particle physics. I would have no business logging onto a forum wherein particle physics, string theory, etc... is being discussed. Much less, doing so regardless, and then in my ignorance of those subjects presume to argue with the learned there as pertains to the theory behind particle physics and string theory.

This is why you don't understand how that one worthy of rebuke is a chronic blasphemer, purposefully, of The Word.
Because you know nothing of Theology, Apologetics, Soteriology, Bibliology, etc... All areas of study as pertain to God and his words to us.

 

[101G]

In this case it is a distinction that confounds as difference. The persons cannot be distinct and yet three and yet one.

"it is a distinction that confounds as difference. The persons cannot be distinct and yet three and yet one."

that makes about much sense as trying to over flow the mississippi river with one glass of water.

the LORD, all caps is the Father correct, per Isaiah 63:16. but is not the Lord Father?, 2 Corinthians 6:16 "And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people."
2 Corinthians 6:17 "Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,"
2 Corinthians 6:18 "And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty."

the LORD is the Lord, "shared", or diversified in flesh. when will they ever learn....

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[aspen]

So what is the dividing line between a Christian and nonChristian?

 

[WaterSong]

Throw them if you like wont hurt, ive had worse. But than just just means you have run out of excuses.

Some thing to do with pharisees getting offended

I understand you are out of your depth and now give further proof. I forgive your anger at being disciplined for your errant actions and lack of understanding as regards our faith and covenant.
May God find you and give you peace.
Goodbye.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

He would have to take them as far as sanctifying them in their doctrine before they die; because if they die rejecting the Deity of Christ, it will be in their sins.

If they call on the name of the wrong Jesus it will not be valid.

So, if the Jesus that they called upon reveals himself to not be the God who created them, they are not saved.

That is a whole lot of ifs you are listing.

No one dies with perfect doctrine. God knows teh heart and also is the one who teaches our inner man. If someone call s upon the Lord in faith trusting in HIs death and REsurrection. I for one am not going to worry how perfect their understanding is. the thief on the cross had no doctrine yet was saved!

That is not to excuse bad doctrine- but to recognize God knows the heart and will know the faith expressed.

 

[WaterSong]

Why not? (see Luke 1:37)

How does that scripture pertain to my remarks, in your opinion?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

. . . . Son of God!

Correct, but are you going to tell a JW they are not saved, if they finally come to faith in the death and resurrection of Jesus, and accept Jesus is the Son of god but not God the son, that they are not saved until they fully grasp Jesus is God?

Salvation is based here:


Romans 10:9-11
King James Version

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.


I know the power of the Spirit to break through incredibly bad doctrine to teach one the truth. God made salvation simple- we muck it up by our prejudices. I will trust God to give to one who has turned to Him, the ability to know the truth1 NO matter how screwed up their understanding is when they first get saved!

 

[101G]

So what is the dividing line between a Christian and nonChristian?

the Holy Spirit

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[ChristisGod]

Correct, but are you going to tell a JW they are not saved, if they finally come to faith in the death and resurrection of Jesus, and accept Jesus is the Son of god but not God the son, that they are not saved until they fully grasp Jesus is God?

Salvation is based here:


Romans 10:9-11
King James Version

9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.


I know the power of the Spirit to break through incredibly bad doctrine to teach one the truth. God made salvation simple- we muck it up by our prejudices. I will trust God to give to one who has turned to Him, the ability to know the truth1 NO matter how screwed up their understanding is when they first get saved!

I guess the question one must ask is who is the Lord and what does it mean to confess that Christ is Lord ?

Joel 2:32
32 "And it will come about that whoever calls on the name of the Lord
Will be delivered;
For on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem
There will be those who escape,
As the Lord has said,
Even among the survivors whom the Lord calls.

Here we see Paul quote this OT passage about YHWH and apply it to Jesus who is the one and only Lord according to the N.T.

Romans 10:9-13
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED." 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; 13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."

So a person must confess Jesus is YHWH(Lord) to be saved. Confess means to agree with so the person confessing Jesus is Lord is in agreement that He is YHWH. Whoever will call upon the name of the Lord ( YHWH) will be saved.

So a person who denies Jesus is Lord(YHWH) by not confessing will not be saved regardless of what religious group they are affiliated with.

hope this helps !!!

 

[WaterSong]

Good sir, it's about establishing one's teaching based on scripture.

And when it comes to legs to stand on in that regard...

Your proper response should be:

Amen! Lt. Dan not withstanding. ;)

What people who take discussing scripture as if it is a joke, or not to be taken seriously and therefore, their errant proclamations are to be respected and seen as correct is, they're wrong on both counts. And here's why, as you know.

We're having these discussions on the world wide web. The forum title itself generates hits on search engines by the mere wording, Christianity, board. People seeking to know what it means to be a Christian, what the Bible says about any given subject, rather than going to a church for the first time, investing in a Bible, because they may not know those are typically available at public libraries either for check-out or review in the Reference section, will often times seek answers on the Net.

As such, it is our responsibility to consider this and to also realize, the eternal destiny of an individual soul is the real issue here! And that is why the truth about God, who came to earth to deliver his new covenant by his grace, in the form of Jesus the Christ, is paramount!
And that is also why those who demonstrate no respect for that fact need be identified and rebuked! Because as we know, Jesus himself was tried by Satan when in the desert during his 40 day fast. All manner of temptations put to him there just to lead him off the path of righteousness. And this was God Satan was playing with! Jesus knew this. Satan didn't.
Satan and his legion, his disciples, are still here in this world. Yes, Satan lost his power over death when Jesus died on the cross. However, that did not banish Satan from this world. He's still here and he roams like a hungry lion seeking souls to devour. Innocent seekers to mislead to his lies, and away from the truth and righteousness of the word that is of God.

And this is why it is important to not tolerate those who demonstrate their repeated efforts to confound, insult, blaspheme, mock, the scripture, and the grace of God's Salvation and teachings that pertain to that. Because souls are at stake!
And those who mock either don't know that, don't believe that, or don't care! For those type, their hobby is to bring conflict to Christians who gather in community.
And if they can stir strife and make the atmosphere chaotic enough, they likely figure those who do seek after the truth of God will be dissuaded from that pursuit. Either at that forum wherein the chaos is prolific. Or for all time. Because those dissuaded seekers may be led to believe those who Troll in the name of mocking the truth of God in Christ are an example of all Christians.

They are NOT! They're Trolls! *edit to add* Because Christians don't disrespect God, his word, or the Salvation that is available to any person seeking that truth.
While rebuking such ones as those who behave in that way is made a manifest necessity in order to insure the sons and daughters of vipers who behave as blasphemers, Trolls, etc... are thrashed and rebuked for their effort to lead innocent seekers, God's people, to damnation. Whether that blaspheming Troll type believes in damnation, God, Jesus, or not. They at least believe it is worth their life's time to make sport of God, Jesus, Salvation and the Bible. And while that is sad, it cannot be tolerated. We're talking souls here! God's words, Salvation, eternity, here!
If we feed that type after they show us their intent, we add to their sin by encouraging them to continue in it by inviting their behavior to respond again and again if we speak to them.

We know them by their fruit! And it is rotten.
May God find them, and lead them to his peace. In the meantime, let them starve for the attention they so hungrily seek! God's word is sharper than any two edged sword, and is eternal. It isn't a punchline, and it isn't a topic that should be made sport of.