Where does the Bible say...

[BarneyFife]

We ain’t under the law but grace

Do you also practice circumcision

then you have fallen from grace

THE law of God--the ten commandments.

 

[theefaith]

Yes

where?

 

[theefaith]

Why do you ask?

curious

 

[theefaith]

THE law of God--the ten commandments.

ceremonial law including sabbath fulfilled
Moral law is eternal and found in the New Testament

 

[BarneyFife]

ceremonial law including sabbath fulfilled

Nope

 

[BarneyFife]

where?

Look it up.

 

[BarneyFife]

curious

Sorry, you're asking way too many questions for me to humor you over curiosities.

 

[BarneyFife]

@theefaith
It's not that I don't want you to know my manner of worship. It's just that I'm afraid of the long string of nonsense that might follow. :)

 

[theefaith]

@theefaith
It's not that I don't want you to know my manner of worship. It's just that I'm afraid of the long string of nonsense that might follow. :)

you can’t have a Manner of worship, only the true church does in the holy sacrifice of the mass, the propitiatory sacrifice only offered by ordained priests
With adoration reparation thanksgiving and petition

 

[Brakelite]

so simply refraining from work on Saturday is what all this hulabaloo is all about

Far from it. It's about "where does the Bible say"...Your church has claimed the authority to change the actual written law of God which was handed to Moses on Mt Sinai by God Himself, written with His own finger on stone. Those tables were then kept inside the ark of the covenant. That ark was representative of the throne of God in heaven...it became the "Mercy seat" for the Shekinah glory in the sanctuary. Those tables of stone, summarized by Jesus as loving God with all your heart, soul, mind, and body, and loving neighbour as yourself, are a reflection of the moral character of God Himself. God cannot change. "I am the Lord, I change not". His laws cannot change. They are the foundation of His government, His throne, His authority hence why they were stored under His throne. There is the original throne in heaven, in the Most Holy Place of the sanctuary there. John saw that throne and described it...
19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
He saw and heard a vision reminiscent of Sinai when all the people fled in fear. The giving of the Ten Commandments.
Your church claims to have greater authority than God Himself by changing a law that even God cannot change. Your church claims to have changed the 4th commandment, removed the 2nd altogether, and divided the 10th. Do you really believe that God, in obedience to man, scrubbed out those tables of testimony and altered what He Himself had written with His own finger, just to please the whims and fancies of man-made tradition?

No. It isn't about refraining from work. Its about what this entire thread has been about.

"To what authority do you surrender?" The voice of thunder and the writing of the Almighty in stone, or the voice of a carnal whimsical man who in the words of one of your own, "The 'day of the lord' was chosen, not from any directions noted in scriptures, but from the church's sense of it's own power".

Well did the apostle Paul say say of your church when he said,
3 ¶ Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

 

[theefaith]

Far from it. It's about "where does the Bible say"...Your church has claimed the authority to change the actual written law of God which was handed to Moses on Mt Sinai by God Himself, written with His own finger on stone. Those tables were then kept inside the ark of the covenant. That ark was representative of the throne of God in heaven...it became the "Mercy seat" for the Shekinah glory in the sanctuary. Those tables of stone, summarized by Jesus as loving God with all your heart, soul, mind, and body, and loving neighbour as yourself, are a reflection of the moral character of God Himself. God cannot change. "I am the Lord, I change not". His laws cannot change. They are the foundation of His government, His throne, His authority hence why they were stored under His throne. There is the original throne in heaven, in the Most Holy Place of the sanctuary there. John saw that throne and described it...
19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
He saw and heard a vision reminiscent of Sinai when all the people fled in fear. The giving of the Ten Commandments.
Your church claims to have greater authority than God Himself by changing a law that even God cannot change. Your church claims to have changed the 4th commandment, removed the 2nd altogether, and divided the 10th. Do you really believe that God, in obedience to man, scrubbed out those tables of testimony and altered what He Himself had written with His own finger, just to please the whims and fancies of man-made tradition?

No. It isn't about refraining from work. Its about what this entire thread has been about.

"To what authority do you surrender?" The voice of thunder and the writing of the Almighty in stone, or the voice of a carnal whimsical man who in the words of one of your own, "The 'day of the lord' was chosen, not from any directions noted in scriptures, but from the church's sense of it's own power".

Well did the apostle Paul say say of your church when he said,
3 ¶ Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Jesus Christ has all authority Matt 28:18 he established his church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

Successors of Jesus Christ!

Jesus already prepares His apostles to continue His mission with His power (binding and loosing) and with His authority (keys) matt 16:18 matt 18:18

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.

John 4:1 when therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John...
Jn 4:2 Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples

Here we see Jesus delegating to His successors, Peter and the apostles!

The authority of Peter the apostles and their successors is absolute Matt 16:18 18:18
“Whatsoever” that means anything you bind on earth

 

[theefaith]

Far from it. It's about "where does the Bible say"...Your church has claimed the authority to change the actual written law of God which was handed to Moses on Mt Sinai by God Himself, written with His own finger on stone. Those tables were then kept inside the ark of the covenant. That ark was representative of the throne of God in heaven...it became the "Mercy seat" for the Shekinah glory in the sanctuary. Those tables of stone, summarized by Jesus as loving God with all your heart, soul, mind, and body, and loving neighbour as yourself, are a reflection of the moral character of God Himself. God cannot change. "I am the Lord, I change not". His laws cannot change. They are the foundation of His government, His throne, His authority hence why they were stored under His throne. There is the original throne in heaven, in the Most Holy Place of the sanctuary there. John saw that throne and described it...
19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.
He saw and heard a vision reminiscent of Sinai when all the people fled in fear. The giving of the Ten Commandments.
Your church claims to have greater authority than God Himself by changing a law that even God cannot change. Your church claims to have changed the 4th commandment, removed the 2nd altogether, and divided the 10th. Do you really believe that God, in obedience to man, scrubbed out those tables of testimony and altered what He Himself had written with His own finger, just to please the whims and fancies of man-made tradition?

No. It isn't about refraining from work. Its about what this entire thread has been about.

"To what authority do you surrender?" The voice of thunder and the writing of the Almighty in stone, or the voice of a carnal whimsical man who in the words of one of your own, "The 'day of the lord' was chosen, not from any directions noted in scriptures, but from the church's sense of it's own power".

Well did the apostle Paul say say of your church when he said,
3 ¶ Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

mary is the ark of the new covenant
The mother of mercy

 

[BarneyFife]

you can’t have a Manner of worship, only the true church does in the holy sacrifice of the mass, the propitiatory sacrifice only offered by ordained priests
With adoration reparation thanksgiving and petition

No one has ever tried to stop me for nearly 50 years. Unsure about reality?

 

[Marymog]

No, I don't do pluralism, either.

My "theory" is simply this:

Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. (Romans 14:5)

If that's theory to you, then okay.

It's pretty much a natural law of psychology.

Catholics seem to be having an internal dispute over abortion, since you brought it up.

Some of those Christians you say don't agree with each other are Catholic, by the way.

Thanks b5.

I am really trying to understand how you are connecting Romans 14:5 to what we are talking about. In that passage (when put in CONTEXT) Paul was dealing with those who still wanted to honor certain feast days, Kosher laws, and the like, Paul basically told them, “Yes, but don’t get dogmatic about it!” I don’t see the connection to our discussion. Could you clarify?

Now you have me intrigued. Any evidence for this “internal dispute over abortion”? I am not aware of it.

Let me clarify: All Protestant denominations disagree with each other and sometimes agree with The Church on doctrine, dogma, beliefs, practices etc. As a lone wolf Protestant you can believe what you want and always be right as long as you FEEL like the Holy Spirit guided you to that belief. The Church still practices what the Apostles practiced at the Council of Jeruleaum; any dogmatic decision by The Church, which is led by the Holy Spirit and is the pillar and foundation of truth (just like Scritpure says) is binding upon all members of The Church. That “binding’ authority was instituted by Jesus....Just like Scritpure says. Soooo if two catholics don’t agree with each other it doesn’t matter. The only thing that matters is what The Church decides (Matthew 18:17, Council of Jerusalem). SOOOO I guess your theory is that each individual Christian gets to persuade themselves what the truth is? Is that how you are tieing Romans 14 into this???

Curious Mary

 

[Marymog]

No, just don't agree with the Catholic interpretation thereof.

Fascinating...What is your interpretation of “Let another take his office......to take the place in this ministry and apostleship.....he (Matthias) was numbered with the eleven apostles.”

I look forward to your interpretation of those passages OR what another man taught you on their interpretation.

Mary

 

[Marymog]

I also don't believe that all or at least many Protestants practice church organization and discipline properly. But the shortcomings of Protestantism doesn't make Catholicism the default model of propriety. Sorry if this offends any, but I can't pretend to believe something I don't. :)

Hi B5,

WOW...YOU don’t believe that all or many Protestants practice church organization/discipline properly??? Soooooo you are the authority on that OR did another man teach you about that??

Shortcomings of Protestantism???? YOU decide what the shortcomings are??? Or did another man teach you what “shortcomings” Protestants have??

Who made you the expert on this??? Sorry if this offends you buttttttt....Who made you the expert on “church organization AND discipline” in The Church that Christ established???





Curious Mary

 

[BarneyFife]

I am really trying to understand how you are connecting Romans 14:5 to what we are talking about. In that passage (when put in CONTEXT) Paul was dealing with those who still wanted to honor certain feast days, Kosher laws, and the like, Paul basically told them, “Yes, but don’t get dogmatic about it!” I don’t see the connection to our discussion. Could you clarify?

Try not to get bogged down. Since you feel that I've taken it out of context, what say I give another text supporting religious liberty (which also does a little damage to apostolic succession validity):

Mark 9
38Now John answered Him, saying, “Teacher, we saw someone who does not follow us casting out demons in Your name, and we forbade him because he does not follow us.”

39But Jesus said, “Do not forbid him, for no one who works a miracle in My name can soon afterward speak evil of Me. 40For he who is not against us is on our side.

Now you have me intrigued. Any evidence for this “internal dispute over abortion”? I am not aware of it.

Seems to be largely a slippery slope issue. I've heard it on this and other forums. Since you say it doesn't matter if Catholics agree, you probably won't get much out of this:
Pope Francis’s latest encyclical: Abortion not on list of political concerns

Fascinating...What is your interpretation of “Let another take his office......to take the place in this ministry and apostleship.....he (Matthias) was numbered with the eleven apostles.”

Replacement--not succession. Necessary to fulfill prophecy.

WOW...YOU don’t believe that all or many Protestants practice church organization/discipline properly??? Soooooo you are the authority on that OR did another man teach you about that??

No, I don't and that doesn't make me an expert--just observant and opinionated.

Shortcomings of Protestantism???? YOU decide what the shortcomings are??? Or did another man teach you what “shortcomings” Protestants have??

No I don't--it was a hypothetical.

Who made you the expert on this??? Sorry if this offends you buttttttt....Who made you the expert on “church organization AND discipline” in The Church that Christ established???

I'm not an expert. I'm just a person on a web forum--like you.

 

[BarneyFife]

I guess your theory is that each individual Christian gets to persuade themselves what the truth is?

Again, it's pretty much a law of psychology.

 

[mjrhealth]

Jesus said be honest let your yes be yes and your no no, true Christians are not devious and deceptive

Hmmmm

 

[BarneyFife]

you can’t have a Manner of worship, only the true church does in the holy sacrifice of the mass, the propitiatory sacrifice only offered by ordained priests
With adoration reparation thanksgiving and petition

See?