Different Transalations Of The Bible

[mtalamai]

this is just a thought...

At the end of the bible it says...( this is not word for word but just to make a point )if any man add to the word that are written ... so will be added the plagues that are in this text

...and if any man take away from this text...so will his name be erased from the book of life.

my point is...isn't it wrong for this reason to make another text to satisfy our needs or because because normally we are born not understanding thing and then we are taught...shouldn't this be more of a reason not to make simpler bibles to understand the "must be taught" bible?

Im no scholar but I thought the bible (as complex as it gets) should should be learnt at the most accurate form and then there will be not controvesy over whose bible is better

 

[sniper762]

this is just a thought...

At the end of the bible it says...( this is not word for word but just to make a point )if any man add to the word that are written ... so will be added the plagues that are in this text

...and if any man take away from this text...so will his name be erased from the book of life.

my point is...isn't it wrong for this reason to make another text to satisfy our needs or because because normally we are born not understanding thing and then we are taught...shouldn't this be more of a reason not to make simpler bibles to understand the "must be taught" bible?

Im no scholar but I thought the bible (as complex as it gets) should should be learnt at the most accurate form and then there will be not controvesy over whose bible is better

those statements ONLY applied to john;s book of revelation

 

[gal_from_oklahoma]

My goodness, I may be in way over my head here. I'm just a simple country gal who grew up loving the Lord and I have no formal theological training, but a whole lot of God
given common sense. I'm blessed in knowing what works for me.

I am a Christian who reads and studies many translations of "The Word". I grew up with the KJV and did my memory verses as a child from there. As I grew into adulthood, it was difficult for me to understand. My personal opinion is that the Bible was a letter from God written "especially to me." Therfore, it seems logical that it should be in a text that I can readily understand.

I read from the NCV (New Century Version), the NIV (New International Version), the ASB (American Standard Bible), the Apologetics Bible by Holman, the Living Word Bible by Charles Standly, The Student Bible by Zondervan, Women of Faith Amazing Freedom Bible by Nelson, Quest Study Bible and my NKJV (New King James Version) which I carry to church. I feel I've learned from each and everyone of these.

I may read and study from many different versions. I ask God to simply enlighten my mind and spirit so that His words for me may be written in my heart as He would have them. God is not the author of confusion and each of His creations are unique. Pray for wisdom and understanding when reading or studying and when God speaks to you through His word, you'll know it!!

In His Love,
Gal

I was taken aback by the response from Paul to Selene. It was a bit harsh. In all the reading I did about different translations, I could have missed one but did anyone mention that God may have His hand in each and everyone of our lives leading us where we need to go, bringing to us the translation that best fits what we need for spiritual growth? Whether it is translations from Latin, Greek or Hebrew, or whether the translations are from one era or another? Personally if your Bible / Word of God is ministering to you and you are growing in the Lord who cares if your food comes from "Greece, Asia or Rome" as long as you are continually reading the Word and you believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and God with us and the Holy Spirit is part of your life through accepting Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior.
All this debate is wonderful as long as we do not forget who was the original author. ...... I have heard about every argument there is throughout the years about various translations. If any debate about anything causes us to reach out and use words to wound another brother or sister in the Lord who is honestly seeking the Lord in their life shame on you.

Deutisa.......Nicely said my sister in Him!

 

[Paul]

Gal ...Deutisa.......

I don't see anything harsh in my words in post #8..

 

[veteran]

My personal take on it is there are 2 parts to Israel one of the flesh "all of the blood descendants" and "Israel of the Promise", or better stated one of the promise and one of the flesh. This is clear in Paul's teaching [Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children]---- [but the children of the promise are counted for the seed] Though God did extend the promise to all Israel during the OT may, just as today never knew the Lord. if you don't make this distinction in the old testament you will come away thinking there is one "unconditional" relationship from God to Israel and one for everyone else.

But bud02, there's an error in that idea too, with how many have taught the spiritual seed idea from Paul in Romans 9.

Apostle Paul never showed there that flesh Israel was excluded from the Promise, just because he mentioned the idea that the children of the promise are counted for the seed. That never erased the Promise to flesh Israel.

I've heard once too often the error that Israel lost the Promise, and it then went to the Gentiles with their only becoming spiritual seed of Israel, while flesh Israel was cut off. That is not the idea Paul was teaching there in Romans. What he taught about the remnant according to the election of grace in Romans 11:1-5 WAS about the flesh seed of Israel dwelling in that Promise to Abraham. The Rom.11:1-5 verses are not about Gentiles at all.

God's Word in the NT reveals His Promise CONTINUED through a remnant flesh seed of Israel, and that only the UNBELIEVING of Israel were cut off.

Not only that, but later in Rom.11 Paul teaches the rest of flesh Israel was BLINDED by GOD Himself so that His Salvation could ALSO go to the Gentiles, to provoke flesh Israel to jealousy.

Rom 11:25-29
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is My covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the Fathers' sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
(KJV)

The Israel in part of unbelieving of flesh Israel are enemies of The Gospel FOR our sakes. But to The Father, they are STILL His chosen, and I believe the majority of them will be turned to Christ and be saved. But in God's time, not ours. That's why Paul is pointing to the idea that God will not go back on His gifts and calling dealing with His election. Great will be the day of Jezreel (Hosea 1).

Sorry to get off track from this thread yal.

 

[242006]

The point I was eluding to is you can not say that the seed of Abraham included all of his descendants as being blessed or recipients "promise". As we follow the trail of the Seed to Jesus you can clearly see its not by blood its by election.
Even the definition of posterity gives room to the notion of Satan perhaps siring Cain. How you understand this concept effects how you will interpret the rest of scripture. My personal take on it is there are 2 parts to Israel one of the flesh "all of the blood descendants" and "Israel of the Promise", or better stated one of the promise and one of the flesh. This is clear in Paul's teaching [Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children]---- [but the children of the promise are counted for the seed] Though God did extend the promise to all Israel during the OT may, just as today never knew the Lord. if you don't make this distinction in the old testament you will come away thinking there is one "unconditional" relationship from God to Israel and one for everyone else. Just as in Gen 3 the seed has 2 meanings first and foremost it is speaking of Jesus. Secondly it is referring to posterity, the decedents of Eve. But the bible clearly indicates that the path of the Seed is like the wind no man knows where it comes from or where its is going. And thirdly it clearly does not indicate all the decedents by virtue of posterity. The promise was not that all Israel would be saved, the Promise is Jesus the seed of Eve.

pos·ter·i·ty   /pɒˈstɛr

ɪ

ti/ Show Spelled[po-ster-i-tee] Show IPA –noun 1. succeeding or future generations collectively: Judgment of this age must be left to posterity. 2.all descendants of one person: His fortune was gradually dissipated by his posterity.

I can't stop without commenting about the Holy Spirit. In the OT I see the HS resting on a few. Abraham Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, ect.
The finial atonement for sin had not yet come and the poring out of the Holy Spirit Acts 1:4 ..........but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

All the time the priest were offering sacrifices for sin for themselves and the people. A reflection of God covered Adam and Eve with a coat of skin the first sacrifice. I doubt God used road kill to cloth them, something had to die.
For God to be proactive in His fallen childrens life's this provision "temporary" atonement for sin was made. You can still see the modern rendition of this concept in the Catholic church today. If you attend mass and the go off a couple days later and sin, you must return to mass to be absolved of this new sin. This can only be done by a Catholic priest "Levi" same concept. This is why the path of the promise of the seed is not flesh and blood, its God working threw the HS pointing and demonstrating His plan for salvation. We do see people in the OT that God was pleased with along the way, and others who were also Israel He was not so pleased with. God is a reader of mens minds and the motives of his heart. No man can come unto me, except the Father which sent me draws him......... Im done I'm beginning to ramble :)

Now if you apply all of that to Satan's seed Gen 3 you come away realizing its not simply flesh and blood.

Thank you for clarifying. I apologize for taking so long to reply.

I never made such a claim that all the posterity of Abraham are being blessed recipients of the 'promise. Yet, they are all his posterity nonetheless. Posterity and the 'promise' are separate subjects

Your NT reference to others receiving the same blessings of Abraham as Abraham's seed does not change the fact that 'seed' equals 'posterity' in the OT. With all due resepect, I do not think you are on point at all. You are confusing the NT with the OT. Seed equals posterity. There is not a single instance in Hebrew that 'seed' equals 'spiritual followers'.

 

[fivesense]

But bud02, there's an error in that idea too, with how many have taught the spiritual seed idea from Paul in Romans 9.
Apostle Paul never showed there that flesh Israel was excluded from the Promise, just because he mentioned the idea that the children of the promise are counted for the seed. That never erased the Promise to flesh Israel.
I've heard once too often the error that Israel lost the Promise, and it then went to the Gentiles with their only becoming spiritual seed of Israel, while flesh Israel was cut off. That is not the idea Paul was teaching there in Romans. What he taught about the remnant according to the election of grace in Romans 11:1-5 WAS about the flesh seed of Israel dwelling in that Promise to Abraham. The Rom.11:1-5 verses are not about Gentiles at all.
God's Word in the NT reveals His Promise CONTINUED through a remnant flesh seed of Israel, and that only the UNBELIEVING of Israel were cut off.
Not only that, but later in Rom.11 Paul teaches the rest of flesh Israel was BLINDED by GOD Himself so that His Salvation could ALSO go to the Gentiles, to provoke flesh Israel to jealousy.
Rom 11:25-29
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is My covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the Fathers' sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
The Israel in part of unbelieving of flesh Israel are enemies of The Gospel FOR our sakes. But to The Father, they are STILL His chosen, and I believe the majority of them will be turned to Christ and be saved. But in God's time, not ours. That's why Paul is pointing to the idea that God will not go back on His gifts and calling dealing with His election. Great will be the day of Jezreel (Hosea 1).
Sorry to get off track from this thread yal.

There is no need of apology, veteran. Your understanding and apprehensions are needed by all of us. It is the way that God confirms His truth, by the witness within each and everyone to the mind of the Spirit. It is good for all to believe what has been written, as you do, so that growth in the knowledge and wisdom and realization of Who He is can encourage us and make us stronger in our faith.

I, too, find no Scripture passages that deliver up the promises to Israel over to the Gentiles. That they should rule over the nations as kings and priests has not yet happended. And God, Who is not a man that He should lie, will bring the nation Israel before Him, sanctified, purified, and their sins taken away, at His coming in the Day of the Lord. The faithful ones who did not inherit the promises given to the fathers will be raised to life on earth for the age, coming into those promises with a new heart and a new mind, in possession of all that was in store for them. This is the former resurrection.

The promise that God issued forth for His Son, to inherit all things heavenly as well as those things on earth, was a secret, hidden from the chosen people of God, and made manifest to Paul. The sons of faithful Abraham, the true sons of faith and flesh, will indeed inherit the earth as kings and priest, in the former resurrection. They never anticipated anything else.
Ac 1:6 . When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

Christ's allotment found in the heavens is to include Jew and Gentile equally in spirit, not flesh, and is the Body of Christ, His complement. No one knew of this promise, and it was never foretold of by the Prophets, and was revealed to Paul alone, None of the other Apostles of the Lord ever knew of it til Paul versed them in it.

All Israel shall be saved, as a nation. God will not let His demonstration fail before the eyes of men. He will be vindicated and justified before all for the things that He has said and promised to Israel. We are not a part of it, never have been, never will be. Our portion is with Him in the heavens, to be transformed into deathless beings made totally new in Christ, not born again, but new creations (ktisis). What belongs to us, the promise by faith in the Cross of Christ and baptism into His death and likeness, is far superior to any earthly promise that God has yet to fulfill with His chosen people.

fivesense

 

[bud02]

But bud02, there's an error in that idea too, with how many have taught the spiritual seed idea from Paul in Romans 9.

I agree with you entirely.
I don't believe the promise went to the Gentiles ether. Did Jesus come from A Gentile line? no. Did God promise unconditionally to make the Gentiles many nations? Or a blessing to all the nations of the earth? no.
Rom 11:1-5 is clear I agree,

God's Word in the NT reveals His Promise CONTINUED through a remnant flesh seed of Israel, and that only the UNBELIEVING of Israel were cut off.

And while I agree in this context just what or how do you define the promise?

I also have heard that all Israel "the house of both Jacob and Judea" Have unconditional salvation, As you say the promise goes on, but it is evedent in the NT reading that not ALL the Jews accepted Jesus. If you look at the old and new testament together and apply "that blindness in part is happened to Israel", along with the thought that all the descendants of Jacob will receive salvation "as some do" then we have a big problem. Paul says several times in chapter 11 "if they do not continue in unbelief" No in being from Issac, or by keeping the law but by believing.
In no way can you or God exclude Jesus from the equation of salvation for any man, whether it be Jew, Benjimite, Levi or any one of the lost tribes. If this is at all so then the whole bible is nonsense, and Jesus never needed to come, we could have all entered by an other way. The same rules for salvation apply to both Jew and Gentile. The unconditional promise to Abram and the next promise that was to Abraham said nothing about promising internal life to the descendants.. It promised the seed "Jesus" for all the nations of the world, and the multiplying of the number.

I dont always express myself well writing and I apologize if I lead you or others to presume or miss understand the foundation of my faith.
thank you for making the concept clear.
There have been so many spur lines made in the word of God that people can get off the main line at almost any junction or "verse "

 

[bud02]

All Israel shall be saved, as a nation. God will not let His demonstration fail before the eyes of men. He will be vindicated and justified before all for the things that He has said and promised to Israel. We are not a part of it, never have been, never will be. Our portion is with Him in the heavens, to be transformed into deathless beings made totally new in Christ, not born again, but new creations (ktisis). What belongs to us, the promise by faith in the Cross of Christ and baptism into His death and likeness, is far superior to any earthly promise that God has yet to fulfill with His chosen people.

fivesense

The Bold above fivesence.
In that statement do you mean to say that every descendant of Issac will be saved?
If yes, could you enlighten me?

Or do you mean that Israel of the spirit. Or perhaps I could say the Israel of the earth or of heaven.
We are told that the gentiles are graphed in. So the Israel of salvation is not just Jacobs sons.

I dont know how Paul could make it any clearer by saying not all.

[sup]6[/sup] But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, [sup]7[/sup] nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, “In Isaac your seed shall be called.”[sup][b][/sup] [sup]8[/sup] That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed. [sup]9[/sup] For this is the word of promise: “At this time I will come and Sarah shall have a son.”[sup][c][/sup]
[sup]10[/sup] And not only this, but when Rebecca also had conceived by one man, even by our father Isaac [sup]11[/sup] (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls), [sup]12[/sup] it was said to her, “The older shall serve the younger.”[sup][d][/sup] [sup]13[/sup] As it is written, “Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have hated.”[sup][e][/sup]

He then goes on to make the point even clearer. In place of Pharaoh insert the word Israel as a nation, and you will see the point.

[sup]14[/sup] What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? Certainly not! [sup]15[/sup] For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.”[sup][f][/sup] [sup]16[/sup] So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. [sup]17[/sup] For the Scripture says to the Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I may show My power in you, and that My name may be declared in all the earth.”

Don't you suppose God raised up Israel to demonstrate His power? That His Name be declared in all the earth?
It wasn't to demonstrate that God is raciest. He had to choose someone and that some one was Abram. It is the hearts of men that inject the special RACE into this message. Salvation has to come to all men the same way or God is a 2 faced lair.

So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy. So by faith are we saved because of grace "Gods mercy " Abraham's faith, Abrams and Abraham's promise always included ALL THE NATIONS.

BTW all Nations would include nations founded "fathered" on Satan's so called seed also. 1 Tim 2 [sup]3[/sup] For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, [sup]4[/sup] who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. [sup]5[/sup] For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus,

 

[bud02]

Thank you for clarifying. I apologize for taking so long to reply.

I never made such a claim that all the posterity of Abraham are being blessed recipients of the 'promise. Yet, they are all his posterity nonetheless. Posterity and the 'promise' are separate subjects

Your NT reference to others receiving the same blessings of Abraham as Abraham's seed does not change the fact that 'seed' equals 'posterity' in the OT. With all due resepect, I do not think you are on point at all. You are confusing the NT with the OT. Seed equals posterity. There is not a single instance in Hebrew that 'seed' equals 'spiritual followers'.

Well you guys can shoot my understanding down from one post, that I admit, I could have done better at making a point about.
I was replying about Satan's seed. But it seems to have lead to full explanation of the true seed.

There is not a single instance in Hebrew that 'seed' equals 'spiritual followers'.

How do you suppose those that lived before Christ received salvation? By works? the law? or by believing in God and the promised "seed" yet to come? This is the faith of Abraham. By faith he was saved just as you and I. Faith looking forward.
So how was it that Mosses, Abraham and Jacob received life over death when death had not yet been over come?
[sup]
6[/sup] But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, [sup]7[/sup] nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, “In Isaac your seed shall be called. [sup]8[/sup] That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed.

 

[veteran]

I agree with you entirely.
I don't believe the promise went to the Gentiles ether. Did Jesus come from A Gentile line? no. Did God promise unconditionally to make the Gentiles many nations? Or a blessing to all the nations of the earth? no.
Rom 11:1-5 is clear I agree,
And while I agree in this context just what or how do you define the promise?

Well, please remember you asked, though I don't expect you to just agree with me, but search The Scriptures of Truth for yourself.

God DID send The Promise to the Gentiles too. But the Promise was sent through... Israel to them (that is, believing Israel I mean). That's why Apostle Paul was chosen to preach especially to the Gentiles, and also, why many of Christ's Apostles were found preaching The Gospel to both scattered Israelites and Gentiles together as one body. It was primarily in the West where they took The Gospel. That includes the idea of the lost tribes hearing The Gospel among them too.

And of course Israel must believe on Christ Jesus to be saved, as we all must. When the time comes when God will remove Israel's blindness, there very well still may be some of them that will refuse Him. Yet while the people of Israel exist, they are still His chosen nation, wherever they dwell today. And in Jerusalem, He promised there would always dwell a remnant of one tribe (Judah) for the sake of His servant David, and for Jerusalem's sake (1 Kings 11).

The part of this involving the Promise given to Abraham that many have difficulty believing, especially believing Judah it would seem, is how The Promise of Salvation first given through Abraham by Faith was established with a literal structure on earth among the western Christian nations, involving both believing Israelites that were scattered among the Gentiles long ago, and to include Gentiles among them which also believe that Promise by Faith on Christ Jesus as The Saviour.

That's the idea of Paul's Message in Romans 9:24-30 when he quotes from the Books of Hosea and Isaiah.

That Promise by Faith God first declared through Abraham involves something else not often taught. It involves God's Birthright to His people in that Faith. His Birthright manifested in Israel only until many of them rejected His Promise by Faith, and then it continued only through His remnant that believed, and then also to believing Gentiles along with them. And now that He has established His Promise among a people that have believed, even a people that were 'loammi' (not My people) of both Israelites (scattered Israel, even those He divorced spiritually) and Gentiles, they now together, are to become one (ammi - My people) in Him through Christ Jesus.

Thus, the Promise includes God's Birthright Blessing of many seed, as many as the stars and sands of the sea, great blessings of national wealth, great military power to rule to the gates of its enemies, and the care of His law still per the Birthright portion given to Judah, and His promise to David that there would never fail a man of Israel to sit upon David's throne on earth, that involves those 'ammi' people on earth today. That is not manifested in the holy land today; it's manifested in the West, and began when the western nations began to accept The Gospel of Jesus Christ. This is also part of the great subject of Genesis 49 with the prophecies given through Jacob about Israel in the last days.

This means there is a literal structure of His Israel on earth today per His Promise by Faith among those 'ammi', which are made up of both believing Israel and believing Gentiles as one body, but, that structure in the West is not known as Israel to the rest of the world today, but instead, only the nation in the holy land is known as the nation of Israel. Thus the 'spiritual' Israel concept is not just spiritual only, but a literal reality in the West, established with literal Birthright Blessings which were always part of true Israel's heritage as His vineyard. The Father through His Son moved His vineyard, and gave it to another 'nation' of husbandmen (literally Christian nations in Christ) that would bear its fruit (Matt.21).

The joining of both 'houses' of Israel back together in final per Scripture, is about that literal structure on earth in the West today being moved back to the holy land of Promise under Christ our King when He comes, being joined with those of the house of Judah that convert to Christ from there, along with the rest of believers of scattered Israel and Gentiles in all other nations outside the West.

 

[bud02]

Well, please remember you asked, though I don't expect you to just agree with me, but search The Scriptures of Truth for yourself.

This feels more like were getting to know one another. Nor will I bore you with the details of the years I've been on this path of faith.
I find this forum dealing with both, hard subjects but also has members with Ideas that I am not yet ready to include in my understanding. I myself dont come to conclusions about scripture without checking to be certain it is not in conflict. They searched the scriptures to see what Paul spoke of was true. I have read and do agree with J. H. ALLEN, Judah's scepter and Joseph's birthright, to ignore such things is to ignore the prophets themselves.

My terminology may not always be as others, so I understand the need for further explanation. do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God.
Israel = sum of all 12 tribes.
Israel = a location on the eastern side of the Mediterranean sea, scripturaly inhabited by Jude, Benjamin and Levi, with a remnant of the other tribes.
Israel = Jacob as all 12
Israel = Joseph and or Ephraim and Manasseh. lost 10 tribes. Ephraim and Manasseh carry Josephs birth right. a double portion by the way.
Israel of the flesh = the sum of the 10 tribes or the sum of all 12. Both believers and unbelievers.
Israel of the promise those that are of the birth right that believe "all 12", and in some instances includes the Gentile Nations, Israel always being the root the Gentiles are graphed into, both new and old testament.

Lets all remember to remain teachable.

 

[mtalamai]

Im replying to the comment to to my reply disputing John as being accurate in writing revelation

if you can't agree with part of the bible, how can you have faith in the rest?

 

[Paul]

this is just a thought...

At the end of the bible it says...( this is not word for word but just to make a point )if any man add to the word that are written ... so will be added the plagues that are in this text

...and if any man take away from this text...so will his name be erased from the book of life.

my point is...isn't it wrong for this reason to make another text to satisfy our needs or because because normally we are born not understanding thing and then we are taught...shouldn't this be more of a reason not to make simpler bibles to understand the "must be taught" bible?

Im no scholar but I thought the bible (as complex as it gets) should should be learnt at the most accurate form and then there will be not controvesy over whose bible is better

Yes trulyelmo, and this is all the more reason for a true student of Scripture (God's Word) to be familiar with the Biblical languages.

 

[sniper762]

Yes trulyelmo, and this is all the more reason for a true student of Scripture (God's Word) to be familiar with the Biblical languages.

TRULY ELMO, the scripture you posted concerning adding or taking away refers onlt to the book of revelation

 

[242006]

How do you suppose those that lived before Christ received salvation? By works? the law? or by believing in God and the promised "seed" yet to come? This is the faith of Abraham. By faith he was saved just as you and I. Faith looking forward.
So how was it that Mosses, Abraham and Jacob received life over death when death had not yet been over come?

We know from scripture that Abraham's belief in God was accounted good enough for salvation [Gal. 3:6, Luke 16]. We also know that Enoch and Elijah were taken by God without death for their good works. Moses appeared on the mount of transfiguration. Hence, without specific acceptance of Christ as the Son of God, some obtained salvation. Surely, those chosen prophets of God most likely obtained salvation upon death of the flesh too.

However, we also know that there were a great number, who lived and died prior to Christ, that had to wait for Christ's crucifixion in order to obtain salvation. See 1 Pet. 3:18-19, 4:6, Those that accepted Christ while He preached to them after the crucifixion were transferred to the Abrahamic side of the gulf [Luke 16].

Accordingly, the answer to your question is that salvation, prior to Christ, depended on one's salvation classification at birth [just as it does today]. Either one is born as an 'elect' or born as a person with 'free will'. Prior to Christ, those 'elect' of God, who believed in Him, had their works judged. Those with 'free will' had to wait for Christ.

The Law, itself, did not gain one salvation, per se. See Gal. 3:10-14. The Law was only intended to keep one in good standing for the blessings of Abraham -- ultimately being Christ [Gal. 3:16].

[sup]6[/sup] But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, [sup]7[/sup] nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, “In Isaac your seed shall be called. [sup]8[/sup] That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed.

Again, mutually exclusive issues -- 'seed' and 'promise'. If a white person voted for Obama for his 'promise' of hope and change, did the white person become a black person?? Of course not!

Likewise, the blessings of Abraham, and God's covenant therewith him and his posterity, is not of the flesh -- it is the promise of Christ. That blessing did not even go with all of Abraham's seed [Arabs are also the seed of Abraham] -- but, went with Isaac. The scriptures you cite do not change the meaning of 'seed' whatsoever. It is the belief in Christ by all other races of people that give them the same blessings that God bestowed onto the posterity of Abraham. 'Seed' itself, even by definition in the NT Greek, is -

G4690

σπέρμα

sperma

sper'-mah

From G4687; somethng sown, that is, seed (including the male "sperm"); by implication offspring; specifically a remnant (figuratively as if kept over for planting): - issue, seed.I


In English, we derive the word 'sperm' therefrom. It speaks to our flesh bodies, genetic makeup, and our race of mankind. It has nothing whatsoever to do with being of 'moral quality' or being a 'spiritual follower'. Those traits are of our spiritual body -- not the flesh. Even Satan's offspring today have the same opportunity as Abraham's posterity to receive the blessings as promised by God to Abraham. They just have to accept Christ.

 

[Surf Rider]

There is translating, and there is interpreting. They are wholly different things.

Translating physical objects from one language to another is fairly basic. A chair is a chair, just different words for it in different languages. Yes, there can be some issues in this, but for the most part, they are fairly straight forward.

When it come to translating concepts, beliefs, or even feelings, we run into inherent problems. And serious ones, at that. Thus, when it comes to the bible, translations often are actually very much interpretations.

This is why there are so many "translations" out there now -- each group of scholars has their own beliefs, and they don't like the "flavor" of other "translations". One can come to all sorts of different doctrines by using different "translations". This is a basic of bible "study". Even the scholars openly state these fundamental facts that only the ignorant refuse to admit. Thus, pick your own personal "translation" to fit your own personal flavor of beliefs. It's rather pathetic.

But that's the state of Christendom.

To deny that is to deny the facts staring even the unsaved in the face: which of the many dozens of "translations" are we to read? Which is more "accurate"? How do we then know the "truth"? Many of the damned rightly write many of the "saved" off. The proof is there. We are just far too blind and self righteous to not only acknowledge the simple facts that everyone sees, we surely won't then have godly repentance and the fruit that unceasingly springs from that. That's why the scriptures, Christ Himself, stated that many seek to enter heaven through Christ, but will not. But again, most "Christians" don't even belief that. Why? The same thing: far too self righteous and blind to acknowledge the truth in these most common, basic facts. They, just like the damned, much prefer to interpret the scritpures by their own pathetic, miserable spiritual lives. Crazy.

Whatever turns our crank, I guess.

It's that itching ears thing.

Im replying to the comment to to my reply disputing John as being accurate in writing revelation

if you can't agree with part of the bible, how can you have faith in the rest?

I have only met two believers that haven't picked and choosed in the scriptures. We even have those on this forum that believe that 90% of the bible isn't true. Why? In their perverted eyes, God just isn't that way. So it's easy to believe what you want, and not believe what you don't want. And who cares about the source? If it's God's word, that makes no different. On this forum, only Watchman2 have I seen not do this overtly.

O, that there were more!