Where does the Bible say...

[Marymog]

Sure. I have a dislike for Calvinism in several points, though not all. Most 'protestant' Churches today do nothing of the sort ('protest'), and have already acquiesced to Rome.

Romanism and Lutherans - http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/p...doc_2013_dal-conflitto-alla-comunione_en.html

Romanism and Anglicans - 'Catholic' confession is good for the soul - says Archbishop of Canterbury

Romanism and Waldenses - Pope Francis Asks Forgiveness For Catholic Church's Persecution Of Waldensians | HuffPost

Romanism and Evangelicals [Tony Palmer, Kenneth Copeland, etc] - Roman Catholics Evangelicals Tony Palmer - Yahoo Canada Search Results

Romanism and State [Jerry Brown [Jesuit], etc] - Jerry Brown Jesuit - Yahoo Canada Search Results

"...Romanism is now regarded by Protestants with far greater favor than in former years. In those countries where Catholicism is not in the ascendancy, and the papists are taking a conciliatory course in order to gain influence, there is an increasing indifference concerning the doctrines that separate the reformed churches from the papal hierarchy; the opinion is gaining ground that, after all, we do not differ so widely upon vital points as has been supposed, and that a little concession on our part will bring us into a better understanding with Rome. The time was when Protestants placed a high value upon the liberty of conscience which had been so dearly purchased. They taught their children to abhor popery and held that to seek harmony with Rome would be disloyalty to God. But how widely different are the sentiments now expressed!

The defenders of the papacy declare that the church has been maligned, and the Protestant world are inclined to accept the statement. Many urge that it is unjust to judge the church of today by the abominations and absurdities that marked her reign during the centuries of ignorance and darkness. They excuse her horrible cruelty as the result of the barbarism of the times and plead that the influence of modern civilization has changed her sentiments. ..." (The Great Controversy; Ellen G. White, page 563; Chapter 35 - "Liberty of Conscience Threatened")

"...Marvelous in her shrewdness and cunning is the Roman Church. She can read what is to be. She bides her time, seeing that the Protestant churches are paying her homage in their acceptance of the false sabbath and that they are preparing to enforce it by the very means which she herself employed in bygone days. Those who reject the light of truth will yet seek the aid of this self-styled infallible power to exalt an institution that originated with her. How readily she will come to the help of Protestants in this work it is not difficult to conjecture. Who understands better than the papal leaders how to deal with those who are disobedient to the church?

The Roman Catholic Church, with all its ramifications throughout the world, forms one vast organization under the control, and designed to serve the interests, of the papal see. Its millions of communicants, in every country on the globe, are instructed to hold themselves as bound in allegiance to the pope. Whatever their nationality or their government, they are to regard the authority of the church as above all other. Though they may take the oath pledging their loyalty to the state, yet back of this lies the vow of obedience to Rome, absolving them from every pledge inimical to her interests.

History testifies of her artful and persistent efforts to insinuate herself into the affairs of nations; and having gained a foothold, to further her own aims, even at the ruin of princes and people. In the year 1204, Pope Innocent III extracted from Peter II, king of Arragon, the following extraordinary oath: “I, Peter, king of Arragonians, profess and promise to be ever faithful and obedient to my lord, Pope Innocent, to his Catholic successors, and the Roman Church, and faithfully to preserve my kingdom in his obedience, defending the Catholic faith, and persecuting heretical pravity.”—John Dowling, The History of Romanism, b. 5, ch. 6, sec.

55. This is in harmony with the claims regarding the power of the Roman pontiff “that it is lawful for him to depose emperors” and “that he can absolve subjects from their allegiance to unrighteous rulers.”—Mosheim, b. 3, cent. 11, pt. 2, ch. 2, sec. 9, note 17. (See also Appendix note for page 447.)

And let it be remembered, it is the boast of Rome that she never changes. The principles of Gregory VII and Innocent III are still the principles of the Roman Catholic Church. And had she but the power, she would put them in practice with as much vigor now as in past centuries. Protestants little know what they are doing when they propose to accept the aid of Rome in the work of Sunday exaltation. While they are bent upon the accomplishment of their purpose, Rome is aiming to re-establish her power, to recover her lost supremacy. Let the principle once be established in the United States that the church may employ or control the power of the state; that religious observances may be enforced by secular laws; in short, that the authority of church and state is to dominate the conscience, and the triumph of Rome in this country is assured.

God’s word has given warning of the impending danger; let this be unheeded, and the Protestant world will learn what the purposes of Rome really are, only when it is too late to escape the snare. She is silently growing into power. Her doctrines are exerting their influence in legislative halls, in the churches, and in the hearts of men. She is piling up her lofty and massive structures in the secret recesses of which her former persecutions will be repeated. Stealthily and unsuspectedly she is strengthening her forces to further her own ends when the time shall come for her to strike. All that she desires is vantage ground, and this is already being given her. We shall soon see and shall feel what the purpose of the Roman element is. Whoever shall believe and obey the word of God will thereby incur reproach and persecution. ..." (The Great Controversy; Ellen G. White; pages 580-581; Chapter 35 - "Liberty of Conscience Threatened")

"...Through the two great errors, the immortality of the soul and Sunday sacredness, Satan will bring the people under his deceptions. While the former lays the foundation of spiritualism, the latter creates a bond of sympathy with Rome. The Protestants of the United States will be foremost in stretching their hands across the gulf to grasp the hand of spiritualism; they will reach over the abyss to clasp hands with the Roman power; and under the influence of this threefold union, this country will follow in the steps of Rome in trampling on the rights of conscience.

As spiritualism more closely imitates the nominal Christianity of the day, it has greater power to deceive and ensnare. Satan himself is converted, after the modern order of things. He will appear in the character of an angel of light. Through the agency of spiritualism, miracles will be wrought, the sick will be healed, and many undeniable wonders will be performed. And as the spirits will profess faith in the Bible, and manifest respect for the institutions of the church, their work will be accepted as a manifestation of divine power.

The line of distinction between professed Christians and the ungodly is now hardly distinguishable. Church members love what the world loves and are ready to join with them, and Satan determines to unite them in one body and thus strengthen his cause by sweeping all into the ranks of spiritualism. Papists, who boast of miracles as a certain sign of the true church, will be readily deceived by this wonder-working power; and Protestants, having cast away the shield of truth, will also be deluded. Papists, Protestants, and worldlings will alike accept the form of godliness without the power, and they will see in this union a grand movement..." (The Great Controversy; Ellen G. White; pages 588; Chapter 35 - "Liberty of Conscience Threatened")

Hmmmm.....so Ellen White got it right (look, I rhymed) but the men of the Catholic Church and any Protestant that disagrees with her got it wrong???


F A S C I N A T I N G!!!!

 

[theefaith]

Where does the Bible say to be a fundamentalist zealot protesting and rebelling against God’s kingdom and those who are sent by Him to care for our souls? True Christians submit and obey and rejoice to be instructed in the truth! Matt 28:19 Lk 1:1-4
Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...

John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

one faith eph 4:5 one shepherd and one fold Jn 10:16

 

[theefaith]

The church is the kingdom of God on earth they Her Christ rules the nations and therefore kings

Spiritual Fathers have care for our souls!

Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Jn 21:17 feed my sheep:

Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they care for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.

1 Tim 1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you

1 John 2
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.

That makes Paul and John spiritual fathers, pastors of our souls!

 

[Brakelite]

Oooops....You didn't even try to answer my question. lets try again.........
Where does Scripture say that you are the pillar and foundation of truth?

No where. And I wouldn't dare claim such a thing. That is why I said Jesus, by His own testimony, is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. Do you agree with that?
And because you didn't even try to answer my question, here it is again...
You deny again His right to communicate directly with man. And your pope agreed with you of course when he told Catholics that they should never dare to approach God directly to seek forgiveness of sin. Do you know the meaning of the word Antichrist?

 

[ReChoired]

If not catholic then what is the one true physical visible church founded by Jesus Christ on Peter and the apostles???

Joh_9:27 He answered them, I have told you already, and ye did not hear: wherefore would ye hear it again? will ye also be his disciples?

It is the Seventh-day Adventist movement. Will you believe? No. Even if I showed you, again? It's in scripture "theefaith". I did not start out Seventh-day Adventist, but God, through many providences, and by showing me in the word itself. If you are serious and desire to know, PM me. We can talk there. If not, I have told you. What you do with that, is now up to you. Advice. Pray on your knees. Ask God for the truth, and accept what God shows you in the word. If you do not contact me, I will move on to others.

 

[Brakelite]

The Church, which is the pillar and foundation of truth and who has the authority if you or I should be treated as a pagan or tax collector, is my master.

If your church decides for you whether you are saved or not...if your church is the one who forgives you of sin...if your church chooses to be sole interpreter of scripture...if your church decides what is a commandment and what is not...then your church is indeed your master, even your god.

1 billion Christians read Scripture and interpret from what they read how to properly and faithfully "follow the teachings of Jesus Christ".

1 billion different Christians read Scripture and interpret from what they read how to properly and faithfully "follow the teachings of Jesus Christ" but their interpretation is different.

So which group actually does follow and obey Christ? We aren't judged by our profession or our beliefs...we are judged by our works and God's laws. So, put it to the test. Which group "Keeps the commandments of God and has the testimony of Jesus Christ, the spirit of prophecy"? See Revelation 12:17; 14:6; 19:10,

Do you not think that my church is The Church established by Christ?

No.

I already know you don't sooooooo that means you must KNOW what Church is The Church that was started by Christ. Which one is it Backlit?

It is the one made up of faithful servants of Christ living up to the light they have. They belong to numerous churches, and are found in all of them. Membership of a particular institution does not make you a member of Christ's body on earth.

Hi Backlit,

You seemed to be confused by my statement; Ok.....I looked it up. The text of Genesis states that God blessed and hallowed the seventh day, not the Sabbath.

Here is what Scripture says in Genesis 2: “And on the seventh day God finished his work which he had done, and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had done. So God blessed the seventh day and hallowed it, because on it God rested from all his work which he had done in creation” (2:2-3).

Sooooo as you can see what I said was a quote direct from Scripture. Adventists conflate the seventh day with the Sabbath and read back into the Genesis story a divine creation of the Sabbath that Scripture records as having occurred much later in Exodus.

Maybe I shouldn't quote Scripture since Scripture confuses you?

Bible Study Mary

No confusion on my part. You did well to quote Genesis 2:2,3. And I noticed you made mention of Exodus. Seeing you like to study your Bible, I will quote that for you. The first mention of the Sabbath in Exodus was indeed in chapter 16 associated with the ongoing event of the provision of manna.
Exodus 16:4,5. Then said the LORD unto Moses, Behold, I will rain bread from heaven for you; and the people shall go out and gather a certain rate every day, that I may prove them, whether they will walk in my law, or no.
And it shall come to pass, that on the sixth day they shall prepare that which they bring in; and it shall be twice as much as they gather daily....
...
22 ¶ And it came to pass, that on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for one man: and all the rulers of the congregation came and told Moses.
23 And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.
24 And they laid it up till the morning, as Moses bade: and it did not stink, neither was there any worm therein.
25 And Moses said, Eat that to day; for to day is a sabbath unto the LORD: to day ye shall not find it in the field.
26 Six days ye shall gather it; but on the seventh day, which is the sabbath, in it there shall be none.
27 And it came to pass, that there went out some of the people on the seventh day for to gather, and they found none.
28 And the LORD said unto Moses, How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws?

Question. What commandments and laws is God referring to here? Israel hasn't even arrived at Sinai yet and the Ten Commandments haven't been given.

But let us go to Sinai and see what we have.

Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Did you get that Mary? Did you see where the Sabbath comes from? It wasn't invented at Sinai. Nor was it invented on the plains with the giving of manna. See it bolded here...
God explains in the very commandment why He was including that specific commandment to rest among the other 9...
For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Now. Let's go back to Genesis 2 where you took us earlier shall we.
1 ¶ Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

I don't think there is any doubt whatsoever that God indeed blessed the seventh day at creation, and it was the Sabbath (meaning rest) to and of the Lord. They are one and the same day. To suggest otherwise is to be Biblically illiterate. In the very commandment itself God explains why He wanted Israel to celebrate Sabbath, the seventh day. Because He rested...
From Genesis 2:2...rested...07673 שׁבת shabath shaw-bath’

a primitive root; v; [BDB-991b, BDB-992b] {See TWOT on 2323 } {See TWOT on 2323 @@ "2323c" }

AV-cease 47, rest 11, away 3, fail 2, celebrate 1, misc 7; 71

1) to cease, desist, rest
1a) (Qal)
1a1) to cease
1a2) to rest, desist (from labour)
2) (Qal) to keep or observe the sabbath

 

[ReChoired]

By the guidance of the Holy Ghost I interpret from that Scripture the Truth.

You have failed already. I do not interpret scripture. I told you before. God interprets scripture, even by the Holy Ghost. I do not interpret scripture by the Holy Ghost. It is the Holy Ghost , even God, who interprets scripture. I am simply reading it, and God explains Himself, line upon line. If I may?

For example:

Rev 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:​

What are the "waters" upon which the "great whore" sitteth?

Do I interpret? No. God already gave the answer, and we simply, by the Holy Ghost read and accept it:

Rev 17:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.​

In fact, John himself, didn't make that up. It is all throughout scripture:

2 Samuel 22:5; Psalms 18:3-4, 32:6, 65:7, 89:9-10, 93:3-4, 98:7-9, 124:1-5; Song of Solomon 8:7; Isaiah 8:7, 17:12-13, 28:2, 57:20, 59:19; Jeremiah 46:8, 47:2, 51:13,41-42; Ezekiel 31:15; Daniel 9:26, 11:22; Amos 8:8, 9:5; Matthew 7:25,27; Jude 1:13; Revelation 17:1,15​

As Isaiah 28:10,13 stated, "line upon line", &c.

Another example:

Dan 8:3 Then I lifted up mine eyes, and saw, and, behold, there stood before the river a ram which had two horns: and the two horns were high; but one was higher than the other, and the higher came up last.​

What is this "ram which had two horns"?

Do I interpret? No. God already gave the answer, and we simply, by the Holy Ghost read and accept it:

Dan 8:20 The ram which thou sawest having two horns are the kings of Media and Persia.​

Another example:

Eze 34:2 Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD unto the shepherds; Woe be to the shepherds of Israel that do feed themselves! should not the shepherds feed the flocks?​

What is the "flocks"?

Do I interpret? No. God already gave the answer, and we simply, by the Holy Ghost read and accept it:

Eze 34:30 Thus shall they know that I the LORD their God am with them, and that they, even the house of Israel, are my people, saith the Lord GOD.​

Eze 34:31 And ye my flock, the flock of my pasture, are men, and I am your God, saith the Lord GOD.​

Another example:

Rev_13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.​

What is the "sea"?

Do I interpret? No. God already gave the answer, and we simply, by the Holy Ghost read and accept it:

Is the bowl or basin, in which “water” accumulates [Genesis 1:9,10,22; Psalms 104:5-9; Isaiah 11:9; Jeremiah 52:17,20; Habakkuk 2:14; Revelation 4:6, 15:2 KJB], now remember what "waters" are in Revelation 17, &c? These 'fill' the "sea", even as "waters cover the sea" (Isaiah 11:9; Habakkuk 2:14).

It also represents the bowl or basin (Laver) of the Sanctuary (Church) [Exodus 30:18,28, 31:9, 35:16, 38:8, 39:39, 40:7,11,30; Leviticus 8:11; 1 Kings 7:23-26,30,38-39,44; 2 Kings 16:17, 25:13,16; 1 Chronicles 18:8; 2 Chronicles 4:2-4,6,10,15,19; Jeremiah 52:17,20; Psalms 77:13,19 KJB]​

This time, there are 'two' things, since, there is also a [1] Natural, and [2] Spiritual meaning, for everything:

1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.​

All of scripture is like this. In fact, every doctrine that we are to believe in and practice, is found in Genesis (Isaiah 46:9-10; Matthew 13:35), and in the Sanctuary (Psalms 77:13) and in Jesus Christ (John 14:6).

There are many other ways in which God provides the lessons in the word, notice, a few more examples:

Isaiah 43:7 Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him.​

[A.] I have created him,

[B.] I have formed him,

[C.] I have made him.​

Three words, that God uses as synonyms. In God's word, He has placed every word we need to understand, beginning with Genesis, and builds upon it.

Again:

John 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.​

Those are the similitudes, samenesses, but notice also, the oppositions, the negatives, which also help in defining:

[A.] God is light

[B.] in him is no darkness at all​

Do you see Marymog? If you understand that it is God which gives the interpretation, it is God which opens the understanding, opens the eyes and mind heart, there is no man or devil on earth that can deceive you.

Luk_24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,​

We, together, can go to any place in scripture, asking God in prayer, having faith that He hears us, and if we are serious and desirous to know the truth, He will interpret for us and grant understanding in all His word. There are other such 'keys' found in scripture, as God gives, and if you want those, ask Him, and He will give you the keys of the kingdom, even as He did for Peter (a simple man).

 

[Marymog]

No where. And I wouldn't dare claim such a thing. That is why I said Jesus, by His own testimony, is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. Do you agree with that?
And because you didn't even try to answer my question, here it is again...
You deny again His right to communicate directly with man. And your pope agreed with you of course when he told Catholics that they should never dare to approach God directly to seek forgiveness of sin. Do you know the meaning of the word Antichrist?

thank you. Yes, I do.

 

[BarneyFife]

Just posting a lot of garbage from Ellen White just demonsrates your paucity of intellect.

Is it better to be openly insulting?

 

[WaterSong]

You may repent but you cannot be saved without a priest

That's blasphemy. And a lie.
No priest ever died for my sins. No priest is entitled to be deemed a mediator between me and my Lord. God saves through his grace and we are saved through our faith in Christ. Who took the sins of the world upon himself on the cross, that whosoever believeth in him shall be saved and have eternal life.

Come the day of accountability there shall be many Catholics standing before the throne of God to account of their lives and deeds. However, they shall be preceded in that line by their leaders who through a man made construct set up an idol in the place of God. Surrounded it with a wall, and anointed it as that vehicle which has all power on earth to speak for God and edit what he had to say to the world through his word, the scriptures.
You dear soul when arrived in that line shall have a very long wait till your turn.
But it is coming.
And you have my deepest sympathy if you are there standing behind those former leaders. For when they discover God saves, not man, you will then and far too late discover you lived a lie and died within it. Eternally.

May God have mercy and show you the path of righteousness for his namesake. In Jesus name I ask this for all RCC members here and in the world, Amen.

 

[BarneyFife]

He did say if you love me you will keep my commandments. It seems you agree with me that he DIDN”T say keep holy the Saturday Sabbath since you said “Why would Jesus need to reiterate keeping the Sabbath...” He only repeated the other 9 commandments. Why is that WS????

Show me in Scripture where He said keep the commandment of the Saturday Sabbath and I will follow the men you follow who teach that. I will not let you or the men you follow judge me on what “Sabbath” day I keep which is what Scripture tells me to do.

Baptism is the new covenant. The Church has taught that for 2,000 year and most of your Protestant friends agree with that. Why don’t you?

Keeping it real....Mary

Why would He call Himself "Lord of the Sabbath" if it weren't one of His commandments? And how could He and His Father be One if They had different commandments?

 

[Marymog]

If your church decides for you whether you are saved or not...if your church is the one who forgives you of sin...if your church chooses to be sole interpreter of scripture...if your church decides what is a commandment and what is not...then your church is indeed your master, even your god.

Hey Backlit,

Interesting list of if's. If you were right about all those if's that would be One (John 17:10–11) powerful Church with authority to decide who is right and who is wrong and who can be shunned by The Church (Matthew 18:17, Titus 3:10, Romans 16:17). A Church that gave man the authority by Christ to forgive sins (John 20:23) would be One powerful Church. A Church that decides with the guidance of the Holy Spirit what you must believe/practice as a Christian (Acts 15) would be One authoritative Church. A Church with men that are supposed to hold fast to the doctrine they were taught so that they may save themselves and the people who hear them (1 Timothy 4:16) would be One authoritative Church. A Church that has teachers that can save you would be one powerful Church that would have been started by Christ with him as it's head.

But there is no Church like that.....is there Backlit?

Bible study Mary

 

[Marymog]

So which group actually does follow and obey Christ? We aren't judged by our profession or our beliefs...we are judged by our works and God's laws. So, put it to the test. Which group "Keeps the commandments of God and has the testimony of Jesus Christ, the spirit of prophecy"? See Revelation 12:17; 14:6; 19:10,

.......It is the one made up of faithful servants of Christ living up to the light they have. They belong to numerous churches, and are found in all of them. Membership of a particular institution does not make you a member of Christ's body on earth.

Hi Backlit,

Who decides which group has met the criteria you just put forth? Is there like a panel of bible experts who review each group to make that decision? The panel decides which group has kept his commandments? Which group has the testimony of Christ? Which group is made up of faithful servants?

Your theory is lacking logic. After all if there is no authoritative panel of experts to decide these things that effect our salvation then how can you be on this forum telling the Catholics they are wrong in everything they believe and tell your Protestant brothers/sisters on here they are wrong in some of the things they believe????? Or are YOU the panel of experts??

Curious Mary

 

[Marymog]

You have failed already. I do not interpret scripture. I told you before. God interprets scripture, even by the Holy Ghost. I do not interpret scripture by the Holy Ghost. It is the Holy Ghost , even God, who interprets scripture. I am simply reading it, and God explains Himself, line upon line. If I may?



We, together, can go to any place in scripture, asking God in prayer, having faith that He hears us, and if we are serious and desirous to know the truth, He will interpret for us and grant understanding in all His word. There are other such 'keys' found in scripture, as God gives, and if you want those, ask Him, and He will give you the keys of the kingdom, even as He did for Peter (a simple man).

Hi ReChoired,

Soooo when God interprets Scripture thru you and he as granted you "understanding in all His word" whose mouth does that interpretation come out of? Or in our current form of communication whose fingers type those interpretations onto the computer keyboard?

When those words come out of YOUR mouth I can be assured they are actually the words God would have spoke to me if I was a simple man like Peter and could hear Him????

Should I not trust the words that came out of the mouth of Calvin or Luther or anyone who has a different interpretation than you??? After all, they said they were spoken to by God also....

Curious Mary

 

[Behold]

Or where does it say you have the authority to read and make doctrines or faith for yourself?

IT doesn't.

What the NT teaches, is how to rightly divide or discern it, which is specific instructions.
This can only be performed by the Born Again, as the word of God is "Spiritually Discerned", which means, God's Spirit gives the word, and the born again who are '"ONE" with God's Spirit are the only ones who can understand God's spiritual words, as found in The Bible.

Also, the Key to spiritually discerning the bible, is found by studying Paul's Light. (His Epistles).
Paul said..>"be a follower of ME, as i follow Christ".
And that is the specific instruction to the body of Christ that pertains specifically to total spiritual development of the born again.
If you dont do this, you will never develop past the "babe in Christ" stage.
And moreso, if you are not following the teaching of an anointed person who is devoted to Pauline Theology, you will be kept in the dark, regarding theological understanding, and regarding how to exist as "perfected", because the person who is leading you, is not able to bring you there.

 

[Marymog]

Why would He call Himself "Lord of the Sabbath" if it weren't one of His commandments? And how could He and His Father be One if They had different commandments?

Hi B5,

Of the Ten Commandments the Sabbath commandment is the only ceremonial commandment. The other 9 are moral commandments. A ceremonial rule (commandment) can be changed; a moral rule (commandment) can not be changed! You can hold a ceremony on any day. Jesus never commanded Christians to change the day so there is no "different commandment". The fact that Jesus rebukes too severe an interpretation of Sabbath law (Lk. 13:10–16, 14:1–5; Jn. 5:9–18, 7:22) suggests that the he was not pleased with the way that the Sabbath was being observed.

Who was given the authority to bind and loosen?

Mary

 

[Behold]

Hi B5,


Who was given the authority to bind and loosen?

Mary

That is Matthew 16:18.

And there is a context to the "binding" and "loosening".
The context is verse 20.
Its this.. """Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.""""

So, lets open the verse..

Notice that Jesus says...."AGAIN i say"..
Which is a reference to the "binding and loosening"....previously stated.
So, He first stated it but didnt reveal it yet....., and now He's going to explain it LITERALLY.. Which is... to reveal it....
Here :

"AGAIN I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven."""

So, this is to be understood as Believing Prayer, committed as "2 touching anything" by FAITH, will "LOOSEN" God's hand into the situation.
In other words....God is ACTIVATED or Set into motion, as the end result of Faith. = "as touching anything"....or by faith BELIEVING God will do it.

 

[Marymog]

That is Matthew 18.

And there is a context to the "binding" and "loosening".
The context is verse 20.
Its this.. """Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.""""

So, lets open the verse..

Notice that Jesus says...."AGAIN i say"..
Which is a reference to the "binding and loosening"....previously stated.
So, He first stated it but didnt reveal it yet....., and now He's going to explain it LITERALLY.. Which is... to reveal it....
Here :

"AGAIN I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven."""

So, this is to be understood as Believing Prayer, committed as "2 touching anything" by FAITH, will "LOOSEN" God's hand into the situation.
In other words....God is ACTIVATED or Set into motion, as the end result of Faith. = "as touching anything"....or by faith BELIEVING God will do it.

Hi Behold,

You mentioned "context" and I agree with you; we should look at all of this matter in context, not cherry picked passages. It is true, the other Apostles were also given the authority to bind and loosen in Matthew 18. However you left out Matthew 16:19 which is in context to this conversation. How does adding that passage fit into your "Believing Prayer" theory? And are you suggesting that all Christians have the ability to bind and loosen?

Mary

 

[Behold]

Hi Behold,

You mentioned "context" and I agree with you; we should look at all of this matter in context, not cherry picked passages. It is true, the other Apostles were also given the authority to bind and loosen in Matthew 18. However you left out Matthew 16:19 which is in context to this conversation. How does adding that passage fit into your "Believing Prayer" theory? And are you suggesting that all Christians have the ability to bind and loosen?

Mary

hey, Mary,

There are 2 legit ways to teach Matthew 16.

One is....."Jesus has all authority in heaven and on Earth", subsequent to His Death, Burial, and Resurrection. Which gives all believers, access to it.
This can be taught as...>"ask anything in my name, and it shall be done by my Father"< and a few verses like that...
So, thats Legit.
Its Legit because...."As Christ is, so are all the born again, in this world".
So, because we are THAT, then we have permanent access to the "any 2 as touching anything", = the Power to Activate God to answer the prayer.

Or,

You can teach it as......"In the Time of Jesus, the original Apostles and Paul were given special power".
And you can prove it, easily.
For example, the Epistle of Acts. This is actually the """ ACTS of the Apostles""., not the acts of all the Christians.
You can look at 2nd Corinthians 12:12 and note. "Signs, OF AN APOSTLE"... that will correlate with "Acts of the APOSTLES"..
You can teach """ when that which is perfect is come, then SIGNS will cease""", as = ither the Holy Spirit, or the Bible, as that which is perfect...that has come.

 

[Marymog]

hey, Mary,

There are 2 legit ways to teach Matthew 16.

One is....."Jesus has all authority in heaven and on Earth", subsequent to His Death, Burial, and Resurrection. Which gives all believers, access to it.
This can be taught as...>"ask anything in my name, and it shall be done by my Father"< and a few verses like that...
So, thats Legit.
Its Legit because...."As Christ is, so are all the born again, in this world".
So, because we are THAT, then we have permanent access to the "any 2 as touching anything", = the Power to Activate God to answer the prayer.

Or,

You can teach it as......"In the Time of Jesus, the original Apostles and Paul were given special power".
And you can prove it, easily.
For example, the Epistle of Acts. This is actually the """ ACTS of the Apostles""., not the acts of all the Christians.
You can look at 2nd Corinthians 12:12 and note. "Signs, OF AN APOSTLE"... that will correlate with "Acts of the APOSTLES"..
You can teach """ when that which is perfect is come, then SIGNS will cease""", as = ither the Holy Spirit, or the Bible, as that which is perfect...that has come.

Thanks Behold.

Based you your response it seems you don't believe that Scripture contains clear instructions for Christians and the clear cut truth.

Since you posted 2 possibilities or "legit" ways to look at this matter that means Scripture is not clear.

Since you posted 2 possibilities or "legit" was to look at this matter that means their are two possible truths and we really don't know the truth.

Scripture says we shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. According to you we will never be free since we don't know the truth about binding and loosening.

Matthew 16:19 talks about Peter, and Peter alone, being given keys to the kingdom of heaven in conjunction with binding and loosening. So how does keys to the kingdom of heaven being given to Peter have ANYTHING to do with "all believers" having "access to it"?????

You do know the OT reference to the keys....don't you????