"Do not Look Upon HIS neck chain"

[David H.]

Isa. 1:18 “Come now, let us reason together, says the Lord ...
We are made in GOD's Image, and HE Gave Us the ability to think, reason, and conclude. But some have an excuse why they don't need to exercise their participation:

Yes, that was in the Old covenant, But with the new one he says:
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. (1 Cor. 1:18-21)

Where is that written? (Isa 29:14) The ESV Adds a different perspective on this verse which relates to this Laodicean age. For it is written,
“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
and the discernment of the discerning I will thwart.” (1:19, ESV) Look up the meaning of the Word "prudent" In Isaiah 29:14. (RE: My earlier points on the gift of discerning of spirits.)

And conversely some have the problem of a misplaced faith....i.e., Denying the Wisdom of God. His foolishness is wiser than the wisdom of men. Do you see this?;)

 

[David H.]

BTW, That popcorn bag I bought some time ago is getting stale.

 

[Bobby Jo]

Yes, that was in the Old covenant, But with the new one ...

2 Tim. 3:5 holding the form of religion but denying the power of it. Avoid such people.​

Re: Isai 1:18 “Come now, let us reason together ...

... Where is that written? ...

Isai 1:18 “Come now, let us reason together ...​

You may have a passive religion, but mine is VIBRANT and DYNAMIC, where I assail, conquer, achieve, "and can do ALL THINGS through Christ who strengthens me".


But it's ok if you miss out ... ;)
Bobby Jo

 

[David H.]

You may have a passive religion, but mine is VIBRANT and DYNAMIC, where I assail, conquer, achieve, "and can do ALL THINGS through Christ who strengthens me".

I Am glad you put that last part in your statement, Because the first part without acknowledging Christ sounds an aweful lot like Lucifer.... "I will, I Will, I will..."

My Faith is not passive, but it has just reached the point of understanding that without Christ I can do nothing...I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. (John 15:5)
God Bless.

 

[Bobby Jo]

...
My Faith is not passive, but it has just reached the point of understanding that without Christ I can do nothing.

I'd still argue parallel between Buddhism versus Christianity, where the former says -- don't do harm to those that don't harm you --; and the latter says -- do good to those as you would for yourself --. The former is PASSIVE and the latter is PROACTIVE.


... and I ain't passive. I tell GOD what I need, use what I can, buy what's necessary, and work while it's day.
Bobby Jo

 

[David H.]

I'd still argue parallel between Buddhism versus Christianity, where the former says -- don't do harm to those that don't harm you --; and the latter says -- do good to those as you would for yourself --. The former is PASSIVE and the latter is PROACTIVE.


... and I ain't passive. I tell GOD what I need, use what I can, buy what's necessary, and work while it's day.

You are speaking of temporal things, I am speaking of Eternal (spiritual) things, which is where your error lies in following Q. He is speaking of an earthly Kingdom, The here and now, Christ is speaking of a kingdom to come. This is why you are not connecting to what I am saying. "Turn your eyes upon Jesus and look full in his wonderful face, and the things of earth will grow strangely dim in the light of His glory and grace...."

 

[Bobby Jo]

You are speaking of temporal things, I am speaking of Eternal (spiritual) thing ... "Turn your eyes upon Jesus and look full in his wonderful face, and the things of earth will grow strangely dim in the light of His glory and grace...."

I'm confused. Which is it, -- are you HERE and turning your eyes upon Jesus; or are you in HEAVEN and turning your eyes upon Jesus?!?

I'M HERE, WORKING FOR JESUS TODAY, -- and worrying about HEAVEN LATER. But if YOU only want to contemplate HEAVEN, then I'd recommend the passage: Faith without Works is DEAD!

Bobby Jo :)

 

[David H.]

I'm confused. Which is it, -- are you HERE and turning your eyes upon Jesus; or are you in HEAVEN and turning your eyes upon Jesus?!?

I'M HERE, WORKING FOR JESUS TODAY, -- and worrying about HEAVEN LATER. But if YOU only want to contemplate HEAVEN, then I'd recommend the passage: Faith without Works is DEAD!

Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world. ( James 1:27)

Your eyes are either fixed upon Christ, or they are fixed upon the things of this world. You see, when we are HERE and now and we have our eyes fixed upon Jesus, The things of this world grow strangely dim. Do You understand? God has not given us a spirit of fear, But of power and love and of a sound mind, (the Mind of Christ). (2 Tim. 1:7) When your focus is on the things of this world, and the evils of this world, your instinct is to prepare by your own strength and will rather than learn to not fear and trust in the providence of God. Mind you I have no issue with "preppers" if God has called you to do so, By all means do so, But all the preparation in the world will not save you if your eyes are not fixed in the right place, and that is on Christ Jesus. Q Is giving a false Hope, that is apart from the "blessed Hope" that is in the coming of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, That man can save himself from the god of this world (Satan) and the mystery of iniquity that is at work therein. Preparation for "that day" is more important than the temporal world. I Hope and pray Trump wins the election, But that will only delay the inevitable, Christ Jesus Overcomes those inevitabilities and I am looking and waiting for his return.... Capisce?

 

[Bobby Jo]

..
Your eyes are either fixed upon Christ, or they are fixed upon the things of this world. ..

HOGWASH. We LIVE in the WORLD. We must EAT, SLEEP, REJOICE, and CRY in our EXISTENCE. And of such is the WORK that accompanies our FAITH. But if you only have "faith", then Good Luck, because it ain't enough ...

Bobby Jo

 

[Timtofly]

HOGWASH. We LIVE in the WORLD. We must EAT, SLEEP, REJOICE, and CRY in our EXISTENCE. And of such is the WORK that accompanies our FAITH. But if you only have "faith", then Good Luck, because it ain't enough ...

Bobby Jo

Hogwash sounds about right if your work is centered on yourself. The spiritual kingdom is the here and now. Works are for that kingdom not the flesh. One cannot work in the kingdom to come. Death is the finality of work.

 

[Bobby Jo]

... The spiritual kingdom is the here and now. Works are for that kingdom not the flesh. ...

Yet MORE silly people.

Bobby Jo

 

[farouk]

study that HE finds you worthy.

Blessings

@Acolyte Reminds me of 2 Timothy 2.15: "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

 

[David H.]

HOGWASH. We LIVE in the WORLD. We must EAT, SLEEP, REJOICE, and CRY in our EXISTENCE. And of such is the WORK that accompanies our FAITH. But if you only have "faith", then Good Luck, because it ain't enough ...

Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment? Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they? Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?
And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin: And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of little faith?
Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things. But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof. (Matthew 6:25-34)

Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.(Matthew 19:23)

Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: (Rev. 3:17)

Most people in this country have no clue How to Live by Faith.

 

[Bobby Jo]

Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; ...

And Scripture does not contradict Scripture, and so we also must:

Lke 22:35 And he said to them, “When I sent you out with no purse or bag or sandals, did you lack anything?” They said, “Nothing.” 36 He said to them, “But now, let him who has a purse take it, and likewise a bag. And let him who has no sword sell his mantle and buy one.​

... or I understand that "crossing your fingers" might help when you're cold, hungry, and attacked. So Good Luck! :)
Bobby Jo

 

[David H.]

And Scripture does not contradict Scripture, and so we also must:

Lke 22:35 And he said to them, “When I sent you out with no purse or bag or sandals, did you lack anything?” They said, “Nothing.” 36 He said to them, “But now, let him who has a purse take it, and likewise a bag. And let him who has no sword sell his mantle and buy one.

... or I understand that "crossing your fingers" might help when you're cold, hungry, and attacked. So Good Luck! :)
Bobby Jo

Trusting in the Lord and His Providence is not like crossing your fingers, If You see it that way you have a powerless faith, and serve a powerless God.
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong. (2 Cor. 12:9-10)

It is this sort of faith, which is required to enter His resting place, It is this kind of Trust that allows us to face giants in the land and allows us to enter his promised Land. It is this kind of faith that overcomes Not only the evils of persecution, But also the seductions of this world, The Lust of the flesh, the Lust of the eyes and the pride of Life. (1 John 2:16). It is this kind of faith, that allows us to overcome as Christ overcame (Rev. 3:21)

Everything else falls short, I encourage you to find His strength made perfect in you, By Learning to fully trust in his providence. Partial belief is a stench in the nostrils of God, this being the very definition of complacency in The Christian, and the very sin of Laodiceans.... We are all Laodiceans... So do you trust your own strength, Or His strength? If the former, you are standing on sinking sand.

1. My hope is built on nothing less
   Than Jesus’ blood and righteousness;
   I dare not trust the sweetest frame,
   But wholly lean on Jesus’ name.
   • Refrain:
     On Christ, the solid Rock, I stand;
     All other ground is sinking sand,
     All other ground is sinking sand.
2. When darkness veils His lovely face,
   I rest on His unchanging grace;
   In every high and stormy gale,
   My anchor holds within the veil.
3. His oath, His covenant, His blood
   Support me in the whelming flood;
   When all around my soul gives way,
   He then is all my hope and stay.
4. When He shall come with trumpet sound,
   Oh, may I then in Him be found;
   Dressed in His righteousness alone,
   Faultless to stand before the throne.

 

[Bobby Jo]

Trusting in the Lord and His Providence is not like crossing your fingers, T

"Trusting" IN WHAT, -- you own IMAGINATION?!?

It seems "OBEYING" is the better path, -- i.e., Luke 22:36 --, but some prefer their own paths (excuses).
Bobby Jo

 

[David H.]

"Trusting" IN WHAT, -- you own IMAGINATION?!?

already answered that question, read!

Trusting in the Lord and His Providence is not like crossing your fingers,

From A.W. Tozer, As pertaining to the differing views on faith presented here.... Enjoy.

Instant Christianity tends to make the faith act terminal and so smothers the desire for spiritual advance. It fails to understand the true nature of the Christian life, which is not static but dynamic and expanding. It overlooks the fact that a new Christian is a living organism as certainly as a new baby is, and must have nourishment and exercise to assure normal growth. It does not consider that the act of faith in Christ sets up a personal relationship between two intelligent moral beings, God and the reconciled man, and no single encounter between God and a creature made in His image could ever be sufficient to establish an intimate friendship between them. By trying to pack all of salvation into one experience, or two, the advocates of instant Christianity flaunt the law of development which runs through all nature. They ignore the sanctifying effects of suffering, cross carrying and practical obedience. They pass by the need for spiritual training, the necessity of forming right religious habits, and the need to wrestle against the world, the devil and the flesh. Undue preoccupation with the initial act of believing has created in some a psychology of contentment, or at least of non-expectation. To many it has imparted a mood of disappointment with the Christian faith. God seems too far away, the world is too near, and the flesh too powerful to resist. Others are glad to accept the assurance of automatic blessedness. It relieves them of the need to watch and fight and pray, and sets them free to enjoy this world while waiting for the next. Instant Christianity is twentieth century orthodoxy. I wonder whether the man who wrote Philippians 3:7-16 would recognize it as the faith for which he finally died. I am afraid he would not.

Tozer Devotional | Those Sanctifying Effects of Suffering

 

[Bobby Jo]

already answered that question ...

... but didn't answer the POINT, -- that being HOPE does not replace OBEDIENCE. But with OBEDIENCE comes HOPE!

Luke 22:36​

Bobby Jo

 

[David H.]

... but didn't answer the POINT, -- that being HOPE does not replace OBEDIENCE. But with OBEDIENCE comes HOPE!

I Most certainly have answered your "point" in all of the comments here to you, which you have been unable to refute, instead you continue to say I have not answered your point. I am sorry if your reading comprehension is not all "there" as the points were refuted quite adequately, you just could not comprehend them.

Go back and reread them and come back with something more intelligent in response, Perhaps some other scripture that addresses your point as well.... Perhaps there is none? The contradiction you are seeing is not a contradiction, but a lack of understanding on your part.

Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence. (John 18:36)

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Welcome to the forum, @David H. !

This is an interesting discussion. I don't know about this Q person. Reminds me of the weird "God" character in Star Trek.

The problem with this discussion is that it seems to be based on either/or rather than both/and. I'll explain.

EITHER: Jesus' kingdom is not of this world, so we take no thought for anything temporal....
OR: We prepare for things to get really nutty....

How about we BOTH recognize that Jesus' kingdom is not of this world. He will return to establish His earthly kingdom, AND we prepare for things to get really nutty because they are...and will get even nuttier!

The toilet paper shortage taught me to buy a little extra when the shelves at the grocery store are full. (And @Bobby Jo has reminded us to buy some to share with others. :)) BUT I'm not placing my hope in having extra of anything. My hope is squarely placed on the Lord Jesus Christ, and I refuse to worry about running our of toilet paper! I'll do what He shows me to do and trust Him with all of it!

I'm constantly asking God to show me the things I need to see about what IS and what WILL BE.... I don't need to see EVERYTHING, and I believe that those who are straining to see and understand everything can end up drawing some erroneous conclusions.

It's best to listen to the Holy Spirit as He guides us into all truth. :)