Is it a sin for a Christian to vote for a Democrat?

[Heyzeus]

You'd better be able to prove it's not "a human". You're gonna stand before God on Judgment Day.

So you don't know if it's "a human" but you're ok with killing "it". Are you a Liberal?

Let "them" live and I would be willing to bet my house they will be born as precious little babies. Do you deny being a Liberal?

Speaking for God again :) I don't have to prove anything - I am not the one wanting to force religious belief on others through physical violence .. "in the name of God" .. I am not the one putting words in God's mouth .. and ignoring scripture - while making up my own version of "Gods Word" and claiming defacto that "This is Gods Word"

You are the one that will have some answering to do .. but you can't even answer the most basic questions ..

"When does the soul arrive - and why - where was it prior to entering the fleshy abode .. and where will it go after"

You may run away and stick head in the sandbox of denial once again .. name calling as you run from the playground

1) I am not a liberal
2) your claim that the zygote necessarily will go on to be a baby is demonstrably false - The odds of a zygote making it are not that high.
"existing data show that at least 73% of natural single conceptions have no real chance of surviving 6 weeks of gestation"

Survival probability of human conceptions from fertilization to term - PubMed

Guess God does not care as much for the zygote as you think. If he did .. he would not have put so many barriers in the way to survival.

 

[Ziggy]

Speaking for God again :) I don't have to prove anything - I am not the one wanting to force religious belief on others through physical violence .. "in the name of God" .. I am not the one putting words in God's mouth .. and ignoring scripture - while making up my own version of "Gods Word" and claiming defacto that "This is Gods Word"

You are the one that will have some answering to do .. but you can't even answer the most basic questions ..

"When does the soul arrive - and why - where was it prior to entering the fleshy abode .. and where will it go after"

You may run away and stick head in the sandbox of denial once again .. name calling as you run from the playground

1) I am not a liberal
2) your claim that the zygote necessarily will go on to be a baby is demonstrably false - The odds of a zygote making it are not that high.
"existing data show that at least 73% of natural single conceptions have no real chance of surviving 6 weeks of gestation"

Survival probability of human conceptions from fertilization to term - PubMed

Guess God does not care as much for the zygote as you think. If he did .. he would not have put so many barriers in the way to survival.

When the rubber hit the road.
In the beginning God created them male and female (sperm and egg) and they two became one flesh.
God has his hand in it from sperm and from egg. He directs them both. And when they combine
BOOM!
It's like magic.

 

[kcnalp]

Speaking for God again :) I don't have to prove anything -

You're defending killing MILLIONS of unborn humans by filthy rich Dems. No, I'm not speaking for God. But I know enough Bible to know that anyone who approves of abortion will have a very tough day on Judgment Day.

I am not the one wanting to force religious belief on others through physical violence .. "in the name of God" ..

Neither am I. Are you making false charges against me?

I am not the one putting words in God's mouth .. and ignoring scripture - while making up my own version of "Gods Word" and claiming defacto that "This is Gods Word"

Actually you are guilty of "ignoring scripture". You have attacked the Genesis Flood account several times.
2 Peter 2:4-6 (NKJV)
4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 5 and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; 6 and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly;

You are the one that will have some answering to do .. but you can't even answer the most basic questions ..

"When does the soul arrive - and why - where was it prior to entering the fleshy abode .. and where will it go after"

If you're a man with children did you explain to your wife that the "thing" inside of her kicking her in the ribs wasn't alive?

You may run away and stick head in the sandbox of denial once again .. name calling as you run from the playground

Name calling? What names did I call you? You surely wouldn't lie.

1) I am not a liberal

If it quacks like a duck ...

2) your claim that the zygote necessarily will go on to be a baby is demonstrably false - The odds of a zygote making it are not that high.
"existing data show that at least 73% of natural single conceptions have no real chance of surviving 6 weeks of gestation"

Survival probability of human conceptions from fertilization to term - PubMed

Guess God does not care as much for the zygote as you think. If he did .. he would not have put so many barriers in the way to survival.

You seem to be trying to be one of the "barriers".

Let them live!

 

[Ziggy]

in other words,
Is the sperm a living thing?
Is the egg a living thing?
All living things come from God.
How do men get sperm? how do women get eggs?
They been there like installed software from day one.
When they combine the life in the sperm and in the egg is still alive, it's just that the 2 programs have merged into a new one.

 

[JohnDB]

It's one thing to tolerate abortion...
It's another thing altogether to accept or promote it.

 

[Heyzeus]

You're defending killing MILLIONS of unborn humans by filthy rich Dems. No, I'm not speaking for God. But I know enough Bible to know that anyone who approves of abortion will have a very tough day on Judgment Day.

Neither am I. Are you making false charges against me?

I haven't defended any one .. and am not a liberal .. nor do I have liberal beliefs on abortion .. I am just not an extremist like you .. who has no ability to back up his claims.. and I do not put words in God's mouth like you do.

I have made no false charges against you.. It is you who have convicted yourself.

Should abortion - at least in the first trimester - be A) legal .. or B) illegal -- how would you vote in a referendum

And thank you before hand for convicting yourself by voting B - Forcing your religious beliefs on others through physical violence ..

Part of understanding 'The Truth" .. "The way" .. "The light" - is understanding the consequences of your actions.

Let me recommend this as the next step in your journey.

 

[Taken]

One must look at actions - and not words .. as per scripture

Looked at Trumps actions --- no issues with me.

I'm not at his elbow or his spiritual cleric. However his spiritual advisor Has spoken out on his Repentance and Coming TO Christ Jesus, through prayer.
I have no reason to doubt he is secure in Christ.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Heyzeus]

When the rubber hit the road.
In the beginning God created them male and female (sperm and egg) and they two became one flesh.
God has his hand in it from sperm and from egg. He directs them both. And when they combine
BOOM!
It's like magic.

Certainly .. some seriously magical chemistry going on there ... Some male .. some female .. and some in between :) Don't forget those ?!

So Ok I am with you so far - but in this process of creation .. at what point does the soul enter the fleshy vessel under construction ? .. or - is the soul at some point there but split in two .. part coming from each parent like the DNA ..

 

[Taken]

I don't think Liberals realize the Conservatives have a sense of humour.
I love comedians like George Carlin.
He didn't care what your stance was or your political views.
He just said what he said and it was FUNNY and we laughed.
Try that with the Left, they get so offended, angry, NASTY.
I enjoy watching the parade. It makes life interesting :)

Particularly in this era, electronic gadgetry...
no need to go to Hollywood pretending you are what you are not...its everwhere...lol.
Whoever said "boys will be boys"... had no idea that woul be a question mark.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[kcnalp]

I haven't defended any one ..

You have indeed defended early abortion. I say let them live.

and am not a liberal .. nor do I have liberal beliefs on abortion .. I am just not an extremist like you .. who has no ability to back up his claims.. and I do not put words in God's mouth like you do.

Do you vote for Dems?

Planned Parenthood launches $45M campaign to back Democrats in 2020

I have made no false charges against you.. It is you who have convicted yourself.

You did indeed.
You said: "I am not the one wanting to force religious belief on others through physical violence .. "in the name of God""

Should abortion - at least in the first trimester - be A) legal .. or B) illegal -- how would you vote in a referendum

And thank you before hand for convicting yourself by voting B - Forcing your religious beliefs on others through physical violence ..

I would rather be "convicted" of saying let them live than to say it's ok to kill them.

Part of understanding 'The Truth" .. "The way" .. "The light" - is understanding the consequences of your actions.

Let me recommend this as the next step in your journey.

You have rejected clear Bible Truths. Why would I want your advice?
Luke 17:26-27 (NKJV)
26 And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man: 27 They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all.

 

[Heyzeus]

Then you have not looked deeply. Look .. you seem going down some black vs white perspective here .. .. It is not that Biden is not worse.. I am not going to be running out and voting Blue because Trump has some issues .. but he is no cherub .. and nor are his backers.

What part of "Presidents are Selected not Elected" did we forget to discuss ?

Speaking of Blue though .. the Party that is now Neocon ... and anti Environment .. it is a topsy turvy Orwellian charade we are living in.. There is no need to stump for Trump to be a Christian .. and the Religious right does not represent Christianity .. not a good part at least .. nor anywhere close to being the majority perspective within Christianity

The religious right has gone down a bad road .. Goldwater was correct - and somewhat prophetic in stating that the religious right would be the demise of Republicanism in the Republican party..

Are you ready Freddie ? For the God Father of Conservatism ? Goldwater vs Religious Right

• "I am a conservative Republican, but I believe in democracy and the separation of church and state. The conservative movement is founded on the simple tenet that people have the right to live life as they please as long as they don't hurt anyone else in the process."
  (in a 1994 Washington Post essay)
• "The religious factions will go on imposing their will on others,"
  
• "I don't have any respect for the Religious Right."
  
• "Every good Christian should line up and kick Jerry Falwell's ass."
  
• "A woman has a right to an abortion."

"There is no position on which people are so immovable as their religious beliefs. There is no more powerful ally one can claim in a debate than Jesus Christ, or God, or Allah, or whatever one calls this supreme being. But like any powerful weapon, the use of God's name on one's behalf should be used sparingly. The religious factions that are growing throughout our land are not using their religious clout with wisdom. They are trying to force government leaders into following their position 100 percent. If you disagree with these religious groups on a particular moral issue, they complain, they threaten you with a loss of money or votes or both. I'm frankly sick and tired of the political preachers across this country telling me as a citizen that if I want to be a moral person, I must believe in 'A,' 'B,' 'C,' and 'D.' Just who do they think they are? And from where do they presume to claim the right to dictate their moral beliefs to me? And I am even more angry as a legislator who must endure the threats of every religious group who thinks it has some God-granted right to control my vote on every roll call in the Senate. I am warning them today: I will fight them every step of the way if they try to dictate their moral convictions to all Americans in the name of 'conservatism.' "
(1909-1998) US Senator (R-Arizona) Source: Congressional Record, September 16, 1981


Any questions ? I would hope you would have at least a few .. but let me finish with this.

There is a difference between A) Having a belief .. and B) forcing that belief on others through physical violence

In the debate between Ryan and Biden on abortion during Obama Election - Biden got the correct answer

"As a devout Catholic - I believe abortion is morally wrong - but, I do not believe in forcing my personal religious beliefs on others"

"I do not pass Judgement - but when I Judge .. I do so with the authority of the Most High"

We are not to judge - in matters of essential liberty - and good luck arguing theocracy was the ideology that Jesus preferred for a legal/political system. Jesus was not stupid .. hmmm but the Religious Right ? .. I won't call them stupid .. because that is neither nice nor true. Evil would be a more apt term... Twisting the words of Jesus to suit a desire to control other's through the "Heavy Hand of the State"

Your turn.

 

[Ziggy]

Certainly .. some seriously magical chemistry going on there ... Some male .. some female .. and some in between :) Don't forget those ?!

That's years of messing with our agriculture.
Hormones, pesticides, drugs, chemicals.
I'm not saying there never was feminist men or dominate women.
I just think they kept their "preferences" out of the world view.
I believe there is a reason for everyone being exactly who they are.
And it's not about whether some people are accepting of others,
it's, God judging us according to how loving and tolerant we are.
God's spotlight is on you, on me. He's watching us watch them.
He judges us by our own ego.

I don't agree with the literal display of flaunting your preferences down the center of main street though.
You can still be who you are and not demand other people to be accepting of whatever actions you throw out there.
There's this thing called modesty:
behavior, manner, or appearance intended to avoid impropriety or indecency.

I also understand their fighting back. They are who they are and no amount of scripture is going to convince anyone of who they believe themselves to be. That's God's job.. If he chooses. He may not choose to change people because some people don't like it or feel comfortable.
That's what long-suffering and tolerance and patience etc.. are all about.

If there never was an opposition to ones way of thinking, what need would there be to be tested and tried and found worthy?

I accept everyone by their character. Not because of what they look like, or how they dress, or who they sleep with.
But when the charcter of someone contradicts the norms of how people are to be treated. ie: pedophelia, rape, coersion,
then I will speak out against those actions.

And I'm an eye for an eye kind of person.
The punishment fits the crime.
But if your being unjustly attacked I will defend your right to be who you are.

It takes all kinds to make the world go round.
It's how you look at it and react to it that will be judged.

Thats my belief.
HUGS

 

[Heart2Soul]

Interesting .. so you are stating the soul arrives when the brain starts working - when the wiring is complete - or near complete which is round 20-24 weeks into the process.

Don't really need to get into the car until the electrical system wiring is complete and functional I suppose .. "I think therefor I am" - and If the physical capacity for thought does not exist - the wiring is not complete .. perhaps I am Not :)

Mr. Smarty Pants....the soul is your mind.
We a 3 parts...body, soul and spirit.
Now there are scriptures that mention our soul and ones that mention our spirit.
Are they the same or different?

 

[Heyzeus]

You have indeed defended early abortion. I say let them live.

Do you vote for Dems?

.

Let who live .. the cows . the trees .. shall we save every sperm because it is a potential human.

You keep saying "let them live" .. but you can't seem to figure out who the them you are referring to is.

I suppose pointing out flaws in logic to a rabid anti abortionist could be viewed as defending early abortion - but, it is more a defense of logic, reason, and the principle that constitutes the rock on which Jesus based his teachings.

I will not be voting for Dems this go round .. but - no .. my vote is not based on desiring some strict sharia style theocracy as yours is.
I wish we would get the Religious right out of Politics.. see post 571 on Goldwater.

You did indeed.
You said: "I am not the one wanting to force religious belief on others through physical violence .. "in the name of God""

.

Yes .. I did indeed .. because that is exactly what you want to do .. If you had your way we would be living in strict sharia land .. following God's Word to the letter .

I would rather be "convicted" of saying let them live than to say it's ok to kill them

1) so you have no problem forcing religious belief on others through physical violence - w/r to essential liberty
2) you claim this is on the basis of "letting them live" .. but previously you were arguing that "God's Word" is to kill those babies - and that you agreed these Laws from Jesus in the good old days of the OT.

So you want to force your version of God's word on others .. which includes killing babies and children - and "them" at what ever stage of development.

but you want to also use "God's Name" as there is nowhere in the word that supports your nonsense claim so we can't call your prognostications "God's word" -to force your unsupported made up religious beliefs on others - through physical violence.

How come you get to be the one to choose which fetuses (alone with babies and children) get killed ? - yet you have such concern for a single human cell that is nowhere near a Fetus .

 

[Taken]

Mr. Smarty Pants....the soul is your mind.
We a 3 parts...body, soul and spirit.
Now there are scriptures that mention our soul and ones that mention our spirit.
Are they the same or different?

I would say the soul activates a Body's LIFE ...Bodys life is Blood.
and importantly the senses...
We are Created with-
Ears, nose, eyes, touch, mouth---
But those things do not hear, smell, see, feel, speak Until we, the Created are MADE Living, by a Living soul entering into the Body...and WHEN the Living soul departs, the senses, (not the body parts) remain in the Living soul.

The Souls LIFE is Gods Breath.

A Departed Living soul, Saved- is escourted by Angels to Heaven, Comfort and Rest with God.
A Departed Living soul, Unsaved is sent to Hell, without God, without comfort or rest.

A man has a natural spirit...which is simply a mans True thoughts in his Heart...(regardless of what his mind is thinking)

It is a confession of the Heart, of Belief, that Gods Hears, of a man's natural spirit.

Born Again- is the process of Gods circumcision of your natural heart. Giving you a new heart. Planting His Seed (which IS Christ) in your new Heart, birthing your "Born Again Spirit" and Feeding your new spirit in your new heart, His Truth. (Called the Spirit of Truth).
His Seed, His Spirit, Remains in you, (and your spirit) until Physical BODILY Death, then goes to Gods Hand in Heaven.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[historyb]

Here is a statement pro-life evangelical Democrat voters made, it seems that they are voting other issues.

AS PRO-LIFE EVANGELICALS, WE DISAGREE WITH VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN AND THE DEMOCRATIC PLATFORM ON THE ISSUE OF ABORTION. BUT WE BELIEVE A BIBLICALLY SHAPED COMMITMENT TO THE SANCTITY OF HUMAN LIFE COMPELS US TO A CONSISTENT ETHIC OF LIFE THAT AFFIRMS THE SANCTITY OF HUMAN LIFE FROM BEGINNING TO END.
Many things that good political decisions could change destroy persons created in the image of God and violate the sanctity of human life. Poverty kills millions every year. So does lack of healthcare and smoking. Racism kills. Unless we quickly make major changes, devastating climate change will kill tens of millions. Poverty, lack of accessible health care services, smoking, racism and climate change are all pro-life issues. As the National Association of Evangelicals’ official public policy document (FOR THE HEALTH OF THE NATION) insists, “Faithful evangelical civic engagement and witness must champion a biblically balanced agenda.“ Therefore we oppose “one issue” political thinking because it lacks biblical balance.


Knowing that the most common reason women give for abortion is the financial difficulty of another child, we appreciate a number of Democratic proposals that would significantly alleviate that financial burden: accessible health services for all citizens, affordable childcare, a minimum wage that lifts workers out of poverty.


For these reasons, we believe that on balance, Joe Biden’s policies are more consistent with the biblically shaped ethic of life than those of Donald Trump. Therefore, even as we continue to urge different policies on abortion, we urge evangelicals to elect Joe Biden as president."

Source - https://www.prolifeevangelicalsforbiden.com

That is sad that there are those in he article who claim Christ but back a party of murder. A true Christian no matter what could support a platform or candidate who advocates baby murder.The most impotant issue is baby murder, everything else is secondary to that and I hate that they pretend to be pro-life

 

[historyb]

It is not a sin to vote for a certain political party itself.

'
It is very much a sin when baby murder is on the line.

 

[historyb]

Ahhh, I see you are a student of common sense....Congratulations....School of hard knocks? Or are you someone that just pays attention?



There is a correct answer and it is not a mystery. I am sure that the politics in Australia has it erro-synchronicities. (yes it is a Grailhunter word.) The answer lies in men or the lies of of men ends up being the answer we get. lol Politics is chaos and dog eat dog. If a Christian is only going to vote for a person that is near perfect....that Christian is not going to vote and it is important for Christians to vote. For a good Christian to understand politics they have to understand the concept of the "norm." It does not matter if they are Republicans or Democrats the baseline is that they are liars, schemers, and all have skeletons in their closet. Christians have to look past that.

In the old days Christians could look at person and look at their leadership qualities. Do they actually do what they promised. And by do, I mean, not only did they try, but were they successful at it. Does the person support Christian morals and values. The guy might be a drunken poker player but his initiatives, the things he strives for, do they support Christian values and morals. That is the done column and the do column. Is he or she against abortion? Is he or she actually successful at reducing drug trafficking. Is he or she an advocate of law and order. Does he or she stand up for Christian rights? Does he or she stand up for the minorities? Does he or she know how to negotiate with countries on policy or trade. Does he or she have to go to war to address issues or can he or she negotiate the terms and get it done and keep the peace Does he or she promote good education? Does he or she know how to promote a good economy? Does he or she have a good plan for healthcare? Does he or she have to raise taxes to get their programs to work or do they have the ingenuity to get it done without raising taxes. etc etc etc

In the old days you were evaluating the person. Those days are long gone. The politics in America are such that for sometime now the line has been drawn. It is no longer conservative and liberal. It is moral and unmoral, patriotic and unpatriotic. That is the dividing line. If the issue is abortion...all the Republicans vote against it and all of the Democrats vote for it. If the topic is gay marriage all the Republicans vote against it and all the Democrats vote for it. If the issue is legalizing drugs....all of the Republicans vote against it and all of the Democrats vote for it. If the topic is raising taxes, the Republicans vote against it and the Democrats vote for it. etc etc If the congress or senate is ruled by the opposing party, they will generally work against the President. Certainly there are exceptions to the rules, but in either case if the politicians do not vote along party lines they are chastised by their own party.

So to actually be effective the voter has to vote with the party that best represent their views....for Christians it is the party that best accomplishes their morals. Not that politicians are perfectly moral, but what they accomplish is moral. Not that, that is perfect either. You have to pick a side, because if you don't and the senate and congress and governors are split then it is like tying the tails of two cats together and throwing them over a clothesline....they will do nothing but tear each other up and that will take up their time and minds so that they are ineffective at governing. Effectively what we have is the American party and the Communist party....a party that acknowledges the importance of God and morals and a party that does not acknowledge the importance of God and moral. If a Democrat were to stand up at one of their rallies and talk about God they would lose most of their support. So that is what a Christians has to consider here in America.

Civil rights is another matter and i am sure your country has things going on with the aborigines. Here the Democrats have been able to convince the minorities that they were their party, but they have played them for fools. They really have not done anything for them for 50 years. They pay attention to the criminal element and put them on welfare but assume that if you gave the them a chance they could not succeed. That is what makes President Trump different than his fellow Republicans and the Democrats. He believes in access to a good education and an economy that promotes jobs....the American dream. A lot of minorities own homes and during his administration, more minorities have jobs and homes.

As far as the looting, burning and murderous mobs, that the Democrats call peaceful protests, you can read the posts on that.

That was great

 

[historyb]

I don't think Liberals realize the Conservatives have a sense of humour.

Could be. I like Jeff Dunham :)

 

[Ziggy]

Could be. I like Jeff Dunham :)

HAHA I never seen him before LOL

Warning some may find the language offensive... BUT FUNNNNNY lol